Muslims Threaten Free Speech in New Mexico

[East of Eden]

From this morning's local paper:

"A lecture by an author known for her critical views of Islam resulted in a melee Thursday at the University of New Mexico as protesters interrupted her speech and were shoved by others in the audience.

Nonie Darwish was halfway through her speech, "Why the Arab Spring is Failing," at the university's Anthropology Lecture Hall when a group of about 10 protesters interrupted with loud chants. When a few audience members turned around to try to silence the protesters, a physical confrontation followed."


Here is an attempt to stifle freedom of speech in the US. No doubt due to political correctness these thugs won't be prosecuted as they should be. This is radical Islam trying to send a message to UNM not to have such speakers on campus. It is like organized crime when it tried to intimidate and make an example of someone.

Does this bother anyone here?
__________________

[Slopeshoulder]

The details are very sketchy, and let's say I don't trust the source. Maybe the speaker spoke hate speech. so a small group of folks caused a ruckus.

But even if true, is this supposed to suggest that muslims and students are here to take away our freedoms, and that christianists have never done the same? what's your point? more fodder for paranoia and xenophobia, or have you moved on?

[micatala]

From this morning's local paper:

"A lecture by an author known for her critical views of Islam resulted in a melee Thursday at the University of New Mexico as protesters interrupted her speech and were shoved by others in the audience.

Nonie Darwish was halfway through her speech, "Why the Arab Spring is Failing," at the university's Anthropology Lecture Hall when a group of about 10 protesters interrupted with loud chants. When a few audience members turned around to try to silence the protesters, a physical confrontation followed."


Here is an attempt to stifle freedom of speech in the US. No doubt due to political correctness these thugs won't be prosecuted as they should be. This is radical Islam trying to send a message to UNM not to have such speakers on campus. It is like organized crime when it tried to intimidate and make an example of someone.

Does this bother anyone here?
__________________

As with slopeshoulder, I am hesitant to make a judgment without more information.


In general, I tend to think disruptive behavior like that described is unfortunate, whoever is doing it.

On the other hand, I really have to say I find it astonishing how often accusations of violating free speech are made against individual citizens or groups of citizens. However rude the behavior, this is not a violation of anyone's free speech rights.

Here is the First Amendment for reference.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Even expanding the meaning to cover all governmental bodies, as has become our practice, you cannot have a violation of free speech without government action. The amendment is meant to prevent the government from violating individual rights.


Now, certain types of behavior may be illegal for other reasons. If violence was involved, that should be acted upon.

But if all we have is shouting or speaking, then isn't that protected speech, even if it is disrupting the event?????

When Tea Partiers disrupt a town hall meeting, isn't that protected speech??



It seems to me that if someone is behaving rudely, or otherwise uncivilly, the best tactic is to take the high road and civilly point out the inappropriateness of their behavior. There is no need to make it a religious issue, or to engage in hyperbolic overreach.

[East of Eden]

The details are very sketchy, and let's say I don't trust the source. Maybe the speaker spoke hate speech. so a small group of folks caused a ruckus.

But even if true, is this supposed to suggest that muslims and students are here to take away our freedoms, and that christianists have never done the same? what's your point? more fodder for paranoia and xenophobia, or have you moved on?

Wow, that didn't take long to change the subject to Christians.

Get back to us when the Methodists shout down a Muslim meeting.

[Abraxas]

What evidence is there that they were Muslims?

As far as I can tell from the handful of media sources carrying anything on the topic, a group of students opposed to Israeli actions in regards to Palestinians interrupted the lecture to chant protest stuff, which happens on campus from time to time. Other members of the crowd got up to challenge them, violence ensued (with most sources indicating it was the counter protestors who attacked the interrupters first) and the interrupters were forced outside.

Muslim extremists? Threats to free speech? Organized crime? All of that sounds like histrionics to me. This seems no more extreme than when anti-choice protesters interrupted Barack Obama when he was giving a speech. Clearly this means that the anti-choice crowd are extremists trying and a threat to free speech too, right?

[East of Eden]

What evidence is there that they were Muslims?

From the appearance of the paper photos and the name of the group, Students for Justice in Palestine. Who else would be upset at a speaker critical of Islam? Maybe they were Lutherans?

As far as I can tell from the handful of media sources carrying anything on the topic, a group of students opposed to Israeli actions in regards to Palestinians interrupted the lecture to chant protest stuff, which happens on campus from time to time. Other members of the crowd got up to challenge them, violence ensued (with most sources indicating it was the counter protestors who attacked the interrupters first) and the interrupters were forced outside.

Where they should have been arrested for disorderly conduct. In DC recently peaceful protesters against Obama's stance on Catholic hospitals were arrested.

Muslim extremists? Threats to free speech?

Ever hear of Salman Rushdie?

Organized crime? All of that sounds like histrionics to me. This seems no more extreme than when anti-choice protesters interrupted Barack Obama when he was giving a speech. Clearly this means that the anti-choice crowd are extremists trying and a threat to free speech too, right?

In that instance yes, was there a fight that resulted? Again, the subject change to dumping on Christianity is noted. I do think we need to be concerned when a group from a religion responsible for most US terror plots violently disrupts a meeting.

[East of Eden]

From this morning's local paper:

"A lecture by an author known for her critical views of Islam resulted in a melee Thursday at the University of New Mexico as protesters interrupted her speech and were shoved by others in the audience.

Nonie Darwish was halfway through her speech, "Why the Arab Spring is Failing," at the university's Anthropology Lecture Hall when a group of about 10 protesters interrupted with loud chants. When a few audience members turned around to try to silence the protesters, a physical confrontation followed."


Here is an attempt to stifle freedom of speech in the US. No doubt due to political correctness these thugs won't be prosecuted as they should be. This is radical Islam trying to send a message to UNM not to have such speakers on campus. It is like organized crime when it tried to intimidate and make an example of someone.

Does this bother anyone here?
__________________

As with slopeshoulder, I am hesitant to make a judgment without more information.


In general, I tend to think disruptive behavior like that described is unfortunate, whoever is doing it.

On the other hand, I really have to say I find it astonishing how often accusations of violating free speech are made against individual citizens or groups of citizens. However rude the behavior, this is not a violation of anyone's free speech rights.

Here is the First Amendment for reference.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Even expanding the meaning to cover all governmental bodies, as has become our practice, you cannot have a violation of free speech without government action. The amendment is meant to prevent the government from violating individual rights.

By that reasoning, the Salman Rushdie affair should be no concern to us.

Now, certain types of behavior may be illegal for other reasons. If violence was involved, that should be acted upon.

But if all we have is shouting or speaking, then isn't that protected speech, even if it is disrupting the event?????

When Tea Partiers disrupt a town hall meeting, isn't that protected speech??

What Tea Party disruption? You must be thinking of the Occupy crowd.

It seems to me that if someone is behaving rudely, or otherwise uncivilly, the best tactic is to take the high road and civilly point out the inappropriateness of their behavior. There is no need to make it a religious issue, or to engage in hyperbolic overreach.

The lack of freedom to views that oppose aspects of Islam is spreading here. That should concern everyone. It is a pattern, here is another instance:

Orange County Register

February 8th, 2010

Eleven people were arrested Monday evening during a raucous lecture at UC Irvine where Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren came to talk about U.S.-Israel relations. (UCI earlier said that 12 were arrested.)

Oren was interrupted 10 times Monday while trying to give his speech before 500 people at the UCI Student Center, where there was heavy security. Oren took a 20 minute break after the fourth protest, asked for hospitality and resumed his speech, only to be interrupted again by young men yelling at him every few minutes. Many members of the audience also applauded Oren.

After the 10th interruption, several dozens students who opposed Oren’s talk got up and walked out and staged a protest outside. It is not clear whether they were members of the UCI Muslim Student Union, which issued an email earlier in the day condemning Oren’s appearance on campus.

Oren continued talking, completing his speech at 6:42 p.m. Originally, he planned to take questions from the audience. But that was canceled after the repeated delays.
The second person yelled about “Zionism.�

The third yelled, “Israel.� The fourth could not be clearly heard.

UCI Police Chief Paul Henisey said it is not clear whether any of the protesters are UCI students.

Mark Petracca, a UCI political science professor, lost his temper and yelled, “This is embarrassing … Shame on all of you.�

UCI Chancellor Michael Drake also told the audience that he was embarrassed by the outburst.

Drake and Petracca were booed by many people, and applauded by others.

Hours earlier, UCI’s Muslim Student Union said in an email today that its members “condemn and oppose the presence of Michael Oren, the ambassador of Israel to the United States, on our campus today. We resent that the Law School and the Political Science Department on our campus have agreed to cosponsor a public figure who represents a state that continues to break international and humanitarian law and is condemned by more UN Human Rights Council resolutions than all other countries in the world combined.�

The Jewish Federation Orange County said earlier in the day that it had been informed that Oren’s speech at UC Irvine late today might be disrupted by protestors.

Shalom C. Elcott, president of JFOC, said in a statement today that, “We have been informed that some students may attempt to disrupt the event. We want to assure the community that our goal is to create a positive environment — indeed, a sacred space - for open dialogue, intellectual debate and civil discourse that befits a university setting.�

This was not the first time that there has been confrontation at a political lecture at UCI.

In January 2007, Daniel Pipes of the Middle East Forum was interrupted by protesters at UCI while giving a speech titled, “The Threat to Israel’s Existence.� The protesters ended up getting into a brief shouting match with some members of the audience.


It seems to be Muslims and radical leftist responsible for most of this thuggish behavior. Many conservative speaking on college campuses have gotten the same uncivil treatment from the local lefties.

[Abraxas]

What evidence is there that they were Muslims?

From the appearance of the paper photos and the name of the group, Students for Justice in Palestine. Who else would be upset at a speaker critical of Islam? Maybe they were Lutherans?

I'll grant I haven't seen any photos but why not Lutherans? A lot of left wing college kids, a lot of them not Muslims, latch onto Palestine as one of their causes.

As far as I can tell from the handful of media sources carrying anything on the topic, a group of students opposed to Israeli actions in regards to Palestinians interrupted the lecture to chant protest stuff, which happens on campus from time to time. Other members of the crowd got up to challenge them, violence ensued (with most sources indicating it was the counter protestors who attacked the interrupters first) and the interrupters were forced outside.

Where they should have been arrested for disorderly conduct. In DC recently peaceful protesters against Obama's stance on Catholic hospitals were arrested.

I'm sorry, explain to me how arresting people for protesting protects free speech again?

Muslim extremists? Threats to free speech?

Ever hear of Salman Rushdie?

I have, what does he have to do with this incident? I'm not going to grant you for free that this incident is in any way related to any other incident of violence over religion unless you can show some relationship. Either show this specific incident involved Muslim extremists threatening free speech or concede the point, but whichever you pick, hold the red herring.

Organized crime? All of that sounds like histrionics to me. This seems no more extreme than when anti-choice protesters interrupted Barack Obama when he was giving a speech. Clearly this means that the anti-choice crowd are extremists trying and a threat to free speech too, right?

In that instance yes, was there a fight that resulted?

Yes, according to the article.

Again, the subject change to dumping on Christianity is noted.

I didn't say a word on Christianity, I was just pointing out meetings get interrupted all the time by protesters and trying to claim radical Islam is somehow responsible or that this is a threat to free speech is absurd.

I do think we need to be concerned when a group from a religion responsible for most US terror plots violently disrupts a meeting.

Actually, as noted, they just interrupted and shouted, it was the other side that seems to have started the violence. Also, again, as noted, you are just assuming they are Muslim. Further, unless you have evidence this group has some connection to terrorism, that is an accusation you probably shouldn't make.

[East of Eden]

What evidence is there that they were Muslims?

From the appearance of the paper photos and the name of the group, Students for Justice in Palestine. Who else would be upset at a speaker critical of Islam? Maybe they were Lutherans?

I'll grant I haven't seen any photos but why not Lutherans? A lot of left wing college kids, a lot of them not Muslims, latch onto Palestine as one of their causes.

Agreed, but according to a local news report I saw on TV there were Muslims disrupting the meeting. One Muslim girl pulled the hair of an attendee upset at the disruption. Isn't that assault? The police are asking for witnesses. It seems to be the classic case of Muslims responding with violence to charges that Islam is a violent religion.

I'm sorry, explain to me how arresting people for protesting protects free speech again?

Do you not see how breaking up a speaking event because you disagree with the ideas is a threat to free speech? For that matter, where is there free speech in the Muslim world?

I have, what does he have to do with this incident?

It has to do with Micatala's claim that unless the government is restricting the speech it is no big deal.

I didn't say a word on Christianity,

Slopesholder did, I responded to him.

I was just pointing out meetings get interrupted all the time by protesters and trying to claim radical Islam is somehow responsible or that this is a threat to free speech is absurd.

Was the speech disrupted or not?

[McCulloch]

It bothers me that anyone prefers violence and disruption over reason and discourse. Ultimately, I believe that the actions of the protesters have done more harm to their cause than good. They have only reinforced the stereotype that Muslims are closed minded, prone to violence and unreasonable.

I am reminded of the Scottish poet Robbie Burns:
O would some power the giftie gie us
To see ourselves as others see us.