Clones and Souls

[unicorn]

Would clones have souls? Maybe that's why they die so quickly...because God does not endow them with souls...they are copies of the biological aspect of a being--souls cannot be replicated. Souls are what spark life/animate the biological being. What do you guys think?

[Bugmaster]

Would clones have souls? Maybe that's why they die so quickly...because God does not endow them with souls...they are copies of the biological aspect of a being--souls cannot be replicated. Souls are what spark life/animate the biological being. What do you guys think?

A similar question could be asked about Strong AI; i.e., computers that behave as humans do. There are several answers I can think of, and they pretty much depend on what you believe:

1). Materalism is true. Souls do not exist, and therefore the question is void.

2). Pantheism of some sort is true. Souls do exist, and will automatically inhabit any sufficiently complex body. Thus, the answer is "yes".

3). Reincarnation is true (some versions of Buddhism, Hinduism, Krishnaism, etc.). If it's possible to be reincarnated as an ant, it should be possible to be reincarnated as someone's clone or a computer. The answer is probably "yes".

4). Reincarnation is true, but souls can only enter a body at the moment of conception (other versions of Buddhism and Hinduism). Clones and computers are not biologically conceived, so the answer is "no".

5). Christianity is true. Only God can create and allocate souls. The answer is "no".

I am personally an atheist, so I'd have to go with (1).

[ENIGMA]

Would clones have souls? Maybe that's why they die so quickly...because God does not endow them with souls...they are copies of the biological aspect of a being--souls cannot be replicated. Souls are what spark life/animate the biological being. What do you guys think?

A rather interesting twist to this whole question is that identical twins are essentially genetic clones which split off from the main group of cells after conception.

So, I must inquire:

Of a pair of identical twins, which one gets the soul?

Coin toss event perhaps? Or is it that neither had a soul to begin with and the entire notion of souls is a curious human invention?

[Bugmaster]

Of a pair of identical twins, which one gets the soul? Coin toss event perhaps?

Playing as the Angel's Advocate, I'd say that the twins share one soul between them. That's why (according to popular beliefs) twins often do the same things and feel the same things, and finish each other's sentences, even when separated by large distances.

[QED]

Would clones have souls? Maybe that's why they die so quickly

When you say clones die quickly, in all the cases I know of it's been a question of premature aging. Dolly the sheep was put down after 6 years because of this, however she was perfectly 'normal' apart from being biologically old for her years. So I don't think it sensible to conclude that the absence of a soul results in premature aging so we are left with two possibilities... the scientists that cloned dolly also gave her a soul in the process, or souls don't exist.

[Bugmaster]

So I don't think it sensible to conclude that the absence of a soul results in premature aging so we are left with two possibilities... the scientists that cloned dolly also gave her a soul in the process, or souls don't exist.

That's a false dilemma. There are several other possibilities that I can think of, just off the top of my head:

* Dolly-2 is an evil soulless demon-sheep
* Dolly-2 shares its soul with Dolly-1
* A compatible sheep soul from the Universal Consciousness pool inhabited Dolly-2 as soon as it was cloned
* God chose to ensoul Dolly-2 for his own mysterious purposes

I'm sure there are others.

[McCulloch]

Souls are what spark life/animate the biological being.

I think that your question begs a more important question. Are there souls? What is a soul? If I were to propose that the concept of soul is simply an abstraction, created by humans to maintain the illusion of self and will, how would you answer? Can it be proven objectively that there is a soul? Where does the soul reside? How do you measure it? Is it binary (either you have one or not) or analog (are there degrees of being ensouled)? Are humans unique in having souls or do other species have souls? If other species have souls, are they different from human souls? Do plants have souls? Does a soul cease to exist at death? If not, what happens to them? Does a soul pre-exist? If so, where are they stored prior to life? If not, how are they created? Are souls reincarnated?
Each of the above questions not only require an answer but require an objective answer with logic and evidence.
Until I see that, I have to conclude that the idea of soul is simply wishful thinking, unsubstantiated assertion.

[Dilettante]

Would clones have souls? Maybe that's why they die so quickly...because God does not endow them with souls...they are copies of the biological aspect of a being--souls cannot be replicated. Souls are what spark life/animate the biological being. What do you guys think?

Are you suggesting that clones are not biological beings? Of course they are! Whether we believe in souls or not, clones are independent beings just like twins are two people, not two bodies with the same mind. No two individuals are identical, not even clones.

[unicorn]

Dilettante:

Are you suggesting that clones are not biological beings?

Don't really know how you got that from anything I said?!


QED:

When you say clones die quickly, in all the cases I know of it's been a question of premature aging. Dolly the sheep was put down after 6 years because of this...however, she was "normal"...

Do you know of any cases in which aging does not eventually lead to death?

The scientist that cloned Dolly also gave her a soul in the process, or souls don't exist.

Really? Did they describe how they created her soul? I know it's not sensible to conclude that just becaue people can't create souls, souls do not exist.


McCulloch:

I think your question begs a more important question. Are there souls?

yes

Are souls reincarnated?

no

Do plants have souls?

I think they do

Are humans unique to having souls or do other species have souls?...are they different form human souls?

I think other species have souls. They are different form human souls.

Does a soul cease to exist at death?...If not, what happens to them?

No...they continue to exist.

Does a soul pre-exist?

I've wondered this. I don't think so.

How are they ceated?

Only God knows that.


Enigma:

Of a pair of identical twins, which one gets the soul?

Both.

Since biological twins are...genetic clones...

No, they aren't the same thing. Here is the difference:

clones: they are copy of an already existing item; they are an imitation of an original. there are always errors in copies, and they fade over time. copies begin existence in an already degenerative states

twins: they are duplicates of each other; they exist as two corresponding parts in their original, errorless state.

[Chimp]

...because God does not endow them with souls...they are copies of the biological aspect of a being--souls cannot be replicated. Souls are what spark life/animate the biological being.

Are you suggesting that clones are not biological beings?

Unicorn,

Dilettante was dissecting your logic...

A: God does not give clones souls
B: Souls are required for life
C: Clones are copies of the biological aspects of a being

Therefore, clones are some form of animate being other than biological,
since they are obviously animate.