Rejecting Catholicism???

WinePusher · Post by **WinePusher** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:33 pm

I notice there is a pretty large amount of people who belong to the "Rejected Catholicism" usergroup?

1) Would you please list your reasons as to why you rejected catholicism? If you don't want to, that's fine.

fredonly · Post by **fredonly** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:05 am

Adstar wrote: You cannot disagree with any catholic church teaching and still call yourself a catholic because if you do disagree with the catholic church teaching are not a catholic.

I believe a Catholic is anyone who has been baptized into the Catholic faith and who is allowed to receive the sacraments. This is based on my reading of the article on excommunication in the Catholic Encyclopedia:

"Internal failings, e.g. doubts entertained against the Catholic Faith, cannot incur excommunication."

I therefore think that even "Cafeteria Catholics," who reject some of the teachings, still qualify as Catholics.

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:16 am

fredonly wrote:
Adstar wrote: You cannot disagree with any catholic church teaching and still call yourself a catholic because if you do disagree with the catholic church teaching are not a catholic.
I believe a Catholic is anyone who has been baptized into the Catholic faith and who is allowed to receive the sacraments. This is based on my reading of the article on excommunication in the Catholic Encyclopedia:

I was baptised (water baptism) into the catholic religion and i guess i could go down to the local catholic church and take part in communion. I know the drill. Went to church every Sunday for 17 years. But i am definitely Not a catholic now.

No true catholics are people who place their complete and absolute trust in all the official teachings and rulings handed down to them from the authorities of the catholic church.

Same goes for Christians who place absolute trust in the teachings of the Messiah Jesus.

"Internal failings, e.g. doubts entertained against the Catholic Faith, cannot incur excommunication."

Of course people can doubt as long as they tow the line and do not teach/speak out against the teachings of the catholic church. You can doubt the teaching of the sinless Mary but in the end your supposed to submit and not speak out against the doctrine.

I therefore think that even "Cafeteria Catholics," who reject some of the teachings, still qualify as Catholics.

Rejection is a step up from doubt, two different words.

The fact remains all doctrinal matters officially declared by the catholic church Must not be rejected by those who are part of that religion. Because the catholic church states that they are the supreme infallible interpreters of the will of God for mankind.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

fredonly · Post by **fredonly** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:08 pm

Adstar wrote:
fredonly wrote:
Adstar wrote: You cannot disagree with any catholic church teaching and still call yourself a catholic because if you do disagree with the catholic church teaching are not a catholic.
I believe a Catholic is anyone who has been baptized into the Catholic faith and who is allowed to receive the sacraments. This is based on my reading of the article on excommunication in the Catholic Encyclopedia:
I was baptised (water baptism) into the catholic religion and i guess i could go down to the local catholic church and take part in communion. I know the drill. Went to church every Sunday for 17 years. But i am definitely Not a catholic now.

No true catholics are people who place their complete and absolute trust in all the official teachings and rulings handed down to them from the authorities of the catholic church.

Same goes for Christians who place absolute trust in the teachings of the Messiah Jesus.

"Internal failings, e.g. doubts entertained against the Catholic Faith, cannot incur excommunication."
Of course people can doubt as long as they tow the line and do not teach/speak out against the teachings of the catholic church. You can doubt the teaching of the sinless Mary but in the end your supposed to submit and not speak out against the doctrine.

I therefore think that even "Cafeteria Catholics," who reject some of the teachings, still qualify as Catholics.

Rejection is a step up from doubt, two different words.

The fact remains all doctrinal matters officially declared by the catholic church Must not be rejected by those who are part of that religion. Because the catholic church states that they are the supreme infallible interpreters of the will of God for mankind.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I'm not sure you're right. I do think it's fine for you and I to decide we're not "Catholic," but I still think the Church will still consider you to be Catholic, although a Heretic (which I believe is a mortal sin, and will therefore send you to hell). But the Church says it retains "ecclesiastical jurisdiction" over you:

Cathoic Encyclopedia (Heretic): The fact of having received valid baptism places material heretics under the jurisdiction of the Church, and if they are in good faith, they belong to the soul of the Church. Their material severance, however, precludes them from the use of ecclesiastical rights, except the right of being judged according to ecclesiastical law if, by any chance, they are brought before an ecclesiastical court. They are not bound by ecclesiastical laws enacted for the spiritual well-being of its members, e.g. by the Six Commandments of the Church

.

IMO, you and I should be labelled "Hellbound Catholic Heretic." (Maybe we should start a new user group). We're baptized Catholics, and you can't undo that in the eyes of the Church.

Slopeshoulder · Post by **Slopeshoulder** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:17 pm

Apparently there is a way to request not being as catholic from the catholic chruch.

fredonly · Post by **fredonly** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:31 pm

Slopeshoulder wrote:Apparently there is a way to request not being as catholic from the catholic chruch.

I found this:
http://www.jimmyakin.org/2006/04/formal_defectio.html

... in order to formally defect one must:

1) Decide to leave the Church (which supposes an act of heresy, apostasy, or schism),
2) Put this decision into effect ("realize" it),
3) Manifest this decision externally by submitting it in writing to the Ordinary (normally the bishop) or one's pastor, and
4) Get the Ordinary or pastor to agree that you really have performed the act of will to leave the Church described above and thus committed heresy, apostasy, or schism.

It is then to be noted in the parish baptismal register that you have so defected.

The author of that blog does suggest there are some practical problems with making it happen, but nevertheless I think this verifies that it is theoretically possible to stop being a Catholic.

Still, it strikes me that the "no true Scotsman" fallacy doesn't apply to Catholics. It's invalid to say someone's not a "true Catholic" based on his beliefs (or lack thereof). You're a Catholic if you've been baptized as a Catholic, and have not gone through the formal process described above.

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:27 am

fredonly wrote:
Slopeshoulder wrote:Apparently there is a way to request not being as catholic from the catholic chruch.
I found this:
http://www.jimmyakin.org/2006/04/formal_defectio.html

... in order to formally defect one must:

1) Decide to leave the Church (which supposes an act of heresy, apostasy, or schism),
2) Put this decision into effect ("realize" it),
3) Manifest this decision externally by submitting it in writing to the Ordinary (normally the bishop) or one's pastor, and
4) Get the Ordinary or pastor to agree that you really have performed the act of will to leave the Church described above and thus committed heresy, apostasy, or schism.

It is then to be noted in the parish baptismal register that you have so defected.

The very act of going through these steps is conforming to the orders of the catholic authority.

God knows i have left the catholic church and as far as i am concerned He is the only Authroity. The catholic curch can please it'self.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Braveheart · Post by **Braveheart** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:12 pm

Slopeshoulder · Post by **Slopeshoulder** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:26 am

Oh lord, it's like listening to a 4 year old to opine about a symphony or a legal decision.

Cute for a minute, then shut that kid up.

Braveheart · Post by **Braveheart** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:06 am

Slopeshoulder wrote:Oh lord, it's like listening to a 4 year old to opine about a symphony or a legal decision. Cute for a minute, then shut that kid up.

Oh I'm sorry, am I preaching to much? Or am I just bearing down on your conscience? Are you coping with the fact your a bad Catholic in a new way yet? or are you still just a Catholic in name? But I'm sure I should just shut up now. Everybody listen to Pope Slope.

Oh, and I'll have you know I'm 5, not 4.

Slopeshoulder · Post by **Slopeshoulder** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:43 am

Braveheart wrote:
Slopeshoulder wrote:Oh lord, it's like listening to a 4 year old to opine about a symphony or a legal decision. Cute for a minute, then shut that kid up.
Oh I'm sorry, am I preaching to much?
No, you're showing shoody reasoning and ignorance. Too much to detail here.

Or am I just bearing down on your conscience?
Absolutely NOT!! You are however tickling my fnny bone.

Are you coping with the fact your a bad Catholic in a new way yet?
How dare you?
Do you really think your catechistic-fetishistic orientation has earned the right to judge me, a seminary grad? Do you know how ignorant, arrogant, and bigoted you seem? Va Napoli!

or are you still just a Catholic in name?
See above.
I could ask you the same question, implying that you're (spelled with an apostraphe BTW) actually a totalitarian neurotic fascist and fool who perverts catholicism like bin laden perverted islam, but notice I don't. I accept that you are a catholic. And I advise you do the same.

But I'm sure I should just shut up now.
Great idea!

Everybody listen to Pope Slope.
Good idea.
And now make this the last time you use that insulting joke. I don't call you chickenheart do I?

Oh, and I'll have you know I'm 5, not 4.
I can believe it.