Churches providing social services

[McCulloch]

Should social services, such as welfare, health care or adoption be provided by churches or church run organizations? Should tax revenue be used to support such efforts, if they exist? What safeguards should there be to ensure that such programs do not violate human rights?

[Guest]

Should social services, such as welfare, health care or adoption be provided by churches or church run organizations?

Yes

Should tax revenue be used to support such efforts, if they exist?

No

What safeguards should there be to ensure that such programs do not violate human rights?

Not sure if I have an answer. Ideally I dont think there should be any except for "If something goes wrong then someone needs to turn them in." If it has to be policed by "experts" then let them do it at their own expense and concern, rather then being so "concerned" that they push for someone to "police" at the expense of taxpayers or some other organization. Whether the "ideal" is viable in our current system is uncertain, to me anyway.

[McCulloch]

What safeguards should there be to ensure that such programs do not violate human rights?

Not sure if I have an answer. Ideally I don't think there should be any except for "If something goes wrong then someone needs to turn them in." If it has to be policed by "experts" then let them do it at their own expense and concern, rather then being so "concerned" that they push for someone to "police" at the expense of taxpayers or some other organization. Whether the "ideal" is viable in our current system is uncertain, to me anyway.

Let's look a few specifics:

1. Medical Treatment
   Many hospitals have been founded and may still be either run or financially supported by religious foundations or churches. Yet, they may receive payment for their services from medicare, HMO's or private medical insurance. Yet, the services they choose to provide may be restricted by religious dogma rather than by medical science. Should they accept secular funding? Should governments provide funding to such facilities?
2. Adoption services
   Some service agencies providing adoption services are guided by certain principles of their religion rather than by what may be objectively best for the children in question. Should an adoption agency which filters prospective adoptive parents using a religiously inspired checklist accept or be offered secular funding? If adoption is a process which is licensed by the state, should the state insure that discrimination based on religious belief or practice should not apply?
3. Helping the poor
   Should anyone have to listen to a sermon to qualify for a food bank or soup kitchen?

[Guest]

What safeguards should there be to ensure that such programs do not violate human rights?

Not sure if I have an answer. Ideally I don't think there should be any except for "If something goes wrong then someone needs to turn them in." If it has to be policed by "experts" then let them do it at their own expense and concern, rather then being so "concerned" that they push for someone to "police" at the expense of taxpayers or some other organization. Whether the "ideal" is viable in our current system is uncertain, to me anyway.

Let's look a few specifics:

1. Medical Treatment
   Many hospitals have been founded and may still be either run or financially supported by religious foundations or churches. Yet, they may receive payment for their services from medicare, HMO's or private medical insurance. Yet, the services they choose to provide may be restricted by religious dogma rather than by medical science. Should they accept secular funding? Should governments provide funding to such facilities?
2. Adoption services
   Some service agencies providing adoption services are guided by certain principles of their religion rather than by what may be objectively best for the children in question. Should an adoption agency which filters prospective adoptive parents using a religiously inspired checklist accept or be offered secular funding? If adoption is a process which is licensed by the state, should the state insure that discrimination based on religious belief or practice should not apply?
3. Helping the poor
   Should anyone have to listen to a sermon to qualify for a food bank or soup kitchen?

In that context it would just be a trade off on the bias of the organization. Discard the government and you have bias of the church or religious organization. Discard the religious organization and you place the govt as the cop. Governments arent neutral....neutrality is a myth. IMHO

[McCulloch]

What safeguards should there be to ensure that such programs do not violate human rights?

Anyone can report to the proper authorities to any violation committed.

Yes, they can report, but churches seem to be immune from human rights laws. For example, a very large Christian church prohibits women from holding positions in their hierarchy simply because they are women. For most of the posts with any degree of authority, even being married to a women disqualifies you. In any other organization, such a rule would be a violation of human rights.

[Guest]

What safeguards should there be to ensure that such programs do not violate human rights?

Anyone can report to the proper authorities to any violation committed.

Yes, they can report, but churches seem to be immune from human rights laws. For example, a very large Christian church prohibits women from holding positions in their hierarchy simply because they are women. For most of the posts with any degree of authority, even being married to a women disqualifies you. In any other organization, such a rule would be a violation of human rights.

So you think a mens club violates human rights because it does not allow women?