What's Jesus talking about in Matt 5:17-20? Mosaic Law..?

[Shermana]

Hmm...are Christians supposed to be obeying the Law of Moses? Or is there some kind of way to explain these passages in a way that turns them upside down so they mean you don't have to or something...? Did Paul contradict verses like this? Many people say he actually did, and there were "2 gospels". How does one reconcile these lines?

Verily your righteousness must exceed the Scribes and the Pharisees or you will in no wise see the Kingdom of Heaven.

He who breaks and teaches to break the least of the Laws shall be called the Least among the Kingdom.

Many use Matthew 5:17's use of "Fulfilled" to mean that Jesus did away with the Law. While of course, the word "fulfliled" can be used 11 other times to mean "perform". It can be used in the one time case as "abolish", so they read it as "I did not come to abolish the Law, but to abolish it."

And then there's "Jesus is the End of the Law" , but the word is Telos, which means "End Result" rather than "Termination".

And then throw Matthew 7:22-23 into the mix. "Away from me ye doers of Lawlessness"

So what is righteousness, what is sin and is it related to righteousness? Does one have a quantifiable amount of righteousness based on their adherence to some kind of code of conduct? Who is less righteous than the Scribes and the Pharisees? What does it mean to be called the Least in the Kingdom and does this mean anyone teaching to break Laws such as Sabbath shall be called the Least or worse?

Why did Yashua command his Disciples to "pray that your flight does not take place on the Sabbath day?"

And why was Paul commanded to teach the gentiles to not eat meat sacrificed to idols or drink their blood?

How should Christians interpret Matthew 5:17-20? (In consideration of 1 John 3:4-6, "Sin is Transgression of the Law"). Does a few verses by Paul counteract and negate what is said earlier by Jesus and James and Jude and Peter?

[KennethM]

So wait, all of the sudden a Noahide Law is still in effect?

Where do Christians draw the line as what Laws they follow? Why isn't murder on that list of 4? So do all the commandments given to Moses get void but those mentioned in Genesis don't?

Bear in mind that in the theology the Noahide covenant was between God and ALL humanity (the few that were left that is) while the Mosaic covenant was just between God and the Jews.

[Shermana]

Did the Apostles have different commandments than everyone else?

There's all kinds of people mentioned who burn in Revelation who do things that aren't mentioned in those 4 commands. What's the line?

[delcoder]

Look, folks, the law was just a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. What were its lessons?
1. Sin is punishable by death. (Eternal separation from God)
2. All have sinned.
3. There exists no remedy man is capable of to take away the sentence of death.

This brings us to Christ who was made sin for us. He died in our stead. Because He was sinless His sacrifice forever provides salvation for all who repent and accept Him as saviour.

Do we keep the law? Parts of it yes. Which parts? Those that are reiterated in the New Testament.

[Shermana]

Look, folks, the law was just a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. What were its lessons?
1. Sin is punishable by death. (Eternal separation from God)
2. All have sinned.
3. There exists no remedy man is capable of to take away the sentence of death.

This brings us to Christ who was made sin for us. He died in our stead. Because He was sinless His sacrifice forever provides salvation for all who repent and accept Him as saviour.

Do we keep the law? Parts of it yes. Which parts? Those that are reiterated in the New Testament.

Where in the New Testament does it say a man can't marry his daughter?

[delcoder]

Where in the New Testament does it say a man can't marry his daughter?

You got it backwards. Where in the New Testament does it say a man can marry his daughter?

[Shermana]

Where in the New Testament does it say a man can't marry his daughter?

You got it backwards. Where in the New Testament does it say a man can marry his daughter?

What do you mean? You said that the only parts of the Law are those that re-iterated.

The Old Law says a man can't.

Nowhere in the New testament does it reiterate this.

You have a bullet to swallow.

[Shermana]

By bullet to swallow I mean figuratively, just in case that gets confused.

Where does the New Testament allow people to dance according to this logic that I have it backwards?

You said that the OT laws are done away with except those that are mentioned in the NT.

Incestual marriage is mentioned in the OT, but not the NT.

Thus, you then change your argument to "everything is forbidden except to what's permitted" by saying I have it backwards and asking where it says they're allowed to.

So by that logic, where does the NT say that you are allowed to play musical instruments and dance?

[Shermana]

2 Esdras was once part of our Canon depending on which Writer's opinions you go by.

Regardless though, if Samuel's ghost was summoned, and he asks "Why did you disturb me from my rest", that's saying plenty right there.

[Shermana]

That last post was supposed to be on another topic.

[yourfriendrick]

So wait, all of the sudden a Noahide Law is still in effect?

Where do Christians draw the line as what Laws they follow? Why isn't murder on that list of 4? So do all the commandments given to Moses get void but those mentioned in Genesis don't?

The scribes of the New Testament were writing down a body of spoken traditions. They had limited time and resources, and they assumed that their writings would be used as a memory-jogger for people who spent their spare time endlessly memorizing.

So a lot of these things would seem clearer if we recall that the culture was very different 2000 years ago.

Another aspect is that admonitions to specific audiences get thrown together with general principles.

As far as I can tell, and I am not an authorized spokesman, the Catholic church says, "We know where to draw the line, because we have apostolic succession and indefectability. But you can't analyze such things, so don't even bother to try, just have faith in us."

Other congregations might say, "Disregard those papists and their popery, *we* know where to draw the line and *they* don't."