Secularization

[McCulloch]

Three hundred years ago, there were no secular governments. Now, most developed countries have secular government, or if not, only nominally as in the UK. One hundred years ago, a declared atheist would not stand much of a chance of being elected. Church attendance and involvement is in a downward spiral.

In theory, the United States is a secular society. In practice, it certainly isn't. Certain laws bear the mark of religious influence very clearly; banning of gay marriage and illegalization of marijuana immediately come to mind. As long as the majority of the people in the world are practicing theists, there will be no prominent godless secular society.

Question for debate: Are the developed nations in general, and the USA in particular, becoming more or less secular? Which direction should we be moving?

Secularism is the concept that governments or other public entities should exist separately and independent from religious beliefs and religious organizations.

[Board]

The United States of America was founded as a system of government that took a neutral stance on religion, thus secular. You would be hard pressed to prove otherwise given the first amendment.

The developed nations of the world have learned from their past failures of integrating religion and politics and are "becoming more secular". I add the quotes because the majority of mature nations are secular in that they take no political stance on religious beliefs and have for many years.

We need to be moving toward a neutral stance on religion as a system of government. No single religion can claim truth no matter how hard they try. All religion needs to be treated equally in the eyes of the state. The only way we work forward as a race is to set aside such petty differences like religious beliefs that cannot be shown to be true.

[Lux]

Question for debate: Are the developed nations in general, and the USA in particular, becoming more or less secular?

Yes. All the developing countries are moving towards secularism, some faster than others. I would argue that some are already what one would call secular nations. E.g. France, one of the most developed countries in the world.

The difference in pace is strongly related to the number of religious people. In a country like the USA, where almost 80% of the population identifies themselves as Christian, and 60% claim to pray at least weekly, the movement towards secularism is slower, although non-religiousness is definitely on the rise in the United States. Secularism will never just happen someone has to fight for it, and in a country where more people are not religious, it is bound to happen faster.

Which direction should we be moving?

We should be moving towards States that assure us freedom of and from religion. Governments that endorse or favor no particular conviction or group.

[Grumpy]

McCulloch

Are the developed nations in general, and the USA in particular, becoming more or less secular?

More, in general. It may surprise some but I see nothing wrong with religious beliefs informing political opinion. But there is philosophy and then there is non-sense.

I deeply believe that modeling our behavior(moral and political)after the philosophy of wise men, chief among them(IMHO)Jesus, is itself wise. But I also think, as Thomas Jefferson did, that the magical mystical paraphenalia of stories in the Bible is bogus.

"What you do not like to have done to you, do not do to your fellow man. This is the whole of the Law; the rest is explanation of it. Go and study and learn it."

Sounds like a good way to live to me. And this lesson needs none of the magical stories about Jesus to be wise. If this were the way Christians interacted with our government there would be little problem.

But it isn't...

[bjs]

Are the developed nations in general, and the USA in particular, becoming more or less secular?

For the USA at least I don’t think that we have become that much more or less secular, at least for the past 150 years. We seem to have settled into a basic grove of not committing to any one religion or philosophy (though every once in awhile pretty much ever side will complain about how the government is favoring the other side too much).

Which direction should we be moving?

I’m all for a neutral stance on religion. As a Christian, I would really prefer the state stay out of the church’s business as much as possible. Grant me the freedom to (or to not) follow God as I see fit (as long as no one else is harmed), and I will gladly grant anyone else that same freedom.

[TheParticlePerson]

Most countries are becoming more secular (the US aggravatingly slowly). Other countries like the Islamic Republic of Iran might need help.

[Kuan]

Most countries are becoming more secular (the US aggravatingly slowly). Other countries like the Islamic Republic of Iran might need help.

Leave it to the conservatives, they'll spread the truth to Iran. :2gun: