Those who haven't heard about God.

[Woland]

Hello all,

Keeping it simple as usual, why are there people who never get to even hear about (your, or in some cases any) "god"?

Is it reasonable to believe that a conceptual, benevolent and powerful deity wouldn't make itself and its message known to each of us if it was capable of doing so?

How can we explain the "apparent" geographical favoritism of the allegedly all-powerful Bible deity in making itself known?

-Woland

[myth-one.com]

If God must send an angel to preach the gospel to every nation, then the church failed in this effort!

Interesting point. Firstly, the scripture does NOT say that human efforts to spread the good news "failed" the word or the idea of failure is not mentioned at all. Alhtough you personally have concluded this it is not based on scripture.

I was struck by how similar the wording was:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20)

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. (Revelation 14:6)

Are we to conclude that a people working with Jesus and his Father would "fail"?

The bulk of the "churches" have historically taught that man is born with an immortal soul that must spend eternity in paradise or eternal torment in hellfire. That is not the good news of the gospel, and is in fact good news for no one. Satan initiated the false belief of the immortal soul when he instilled the idea of immortality in mankind:

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (Genesis 3:4)

So most "churches" have actually been fighting against Jesus and His Father.

Satan presently rules the earth:

And the devil, taking him up into a high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whosoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. (Luke 4:5-7)

By believing in the immortal soul myth, man seals the Bible from his understanding. Mankind will become wiser during the end times and should be acceptable to the true good news from the angel at that time:

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. (Daniel 12:4)

This seem an unreasonable conclusion. The bible says that anything God delights to do has "certain success" (see Isaiah 55:11) and since the preaching of the Good news by his human servants is a "commission" from God through Jesus, scripturally there is no way to conclude that that commission will "fail".

The "commission" will certainly succeed, just not solely through the efforts of man according to the Bible.

Once again, this is not a suggestion that man should give up. If anything, mankind should increase efforts to fulfill the Great Commission.

God Bless

[JehovahsWitness]

I was struck by how similar the wording was: [...]
Once again, this is not a suggestion that man should give up. If anything, mankind should increase efforts to fulfill the Great Commission.

You do well have made a connecton between Jesus "grand commission" and the actions of the angel in Revelation but your assumption of some kind of failure on the part of humans is just that an assumption and may I add, a wrong one.

There is no scriptural basis to presume that the humans commissioned by Jesus do not adequately fulfill EVERYTHING they were commissioned to do (Mat25-40) That scripture indicates angelic help is no different than the help given to the first century christians who would no doubt have all found themselves in prison or without their heads had the angels (under Christ's direction) not given them a helping hand (see Acts 5: 19, 20) Colossian 1: 23 indicates that those early Christians fulfilled their commission and their 21Century brothers will do the same.

The impotence of false "armchair" Christians and their missionaries spreading inaccurate information only serves to highlight the only true religion on earth. False Christians will indeed fail since they lack the holy spirit and love of truth to even begin. Jehovah's Witnessses, the only true Christians on the planet today, demonstrate by their faithfully carrying out Jesus commission they have God's backing.

That the world take note (Matthew 24: 39)


To The Ends Of The Earth
http://dc136.4shared.com/download/FETsv ... _Earth.avi

[myth-one.com]

I was struck by how similar the wording was: [...]
Once again, this is not a suggestion that man should give up. If anything, mankind should increase efforts to fulfill the Great Commission.

You do well have made a connecton between Jesus "grand commission" and the actions of the angel in Revelation but your assumption of some kind of failure on the part of humans is just that an assumption and may I add, a wrong one.

I would call it a logical conclusion based on the scriptures inspired by God rather that an assumption.

God commands the Church to spread the gospel to all the world before the end of times can occur.

But an angel is sent to spread the gospel to all the world shortly before the end of times is described in Revelation.

Conclusion: The "Church" did not accomplish their assignment.

[JehovahsWitness]

I would call it a logical conclusion based on the scriptures inspired by God rather that an assumption.

Firstly that is not a logical conclusion based on scriptures because you haven't actually MENTIONED any scriptures or scriptural principles upon which to base this clear ASSUMPTION.

We have the starting commision point (A) we have an ending point (F) and in between *I* mentioned some scriptural principles and precedents to come to a conclusion. (point (C), (D), (E)) YOU did not.

(c) God does not make commissions that fail; EVER [scriptrual principle Is 55:10, 11]

(d) Angels historically HELP humans in their commission; they do NOT replace them "“Are they not all spirits for public service, sent forth to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?� (Heb 1:14) [ Scriptural precedents: see Ge 22:11; 31:11; Jos 5:14, 15; Isa 6:6, 7; Da 6:22; Zec 1:9; Ac 5:19, 20; 7:35; 12:7, 8; 27:23, 24; Re 1:1]

(e) An angel annoucing something does not preclude that human input ceases. Revelation 14: 8 speaks of an angel annoucing the fall of Babylon the Great HOWEVER the same Revelation 17: 12, 17 identifies God as using the kings of the earth as his human angels to carry out this "commission".

(F) we can therefore, based on the above scriptures conclude that no "failure" on the part of humans needed to be completed by angelic direction.

YOU however haven't called on anything apart for human reasoning. You start at (A)* mention nothing in scripture, ie zero point (c), (d) and (e) therefore come to an inaccurate conclusion: point (F).

*although you accurately IDENTIFIED the starting point (A) by relating it to Mat 28: 19, 20.

If you actually DO what you claim ie refer to some scriptural precedents, principles or laws (c), (d) I will be more than happy to discuss them with you.

Your interesting points about the false teachings of the churches are true but do not indicate that the TRUE church does not exist and is teaching real "good news" based on scriptural truth.


United By Divine Teaching
http://dc145.4shared.com/download/glo53 ... aching.avi

[Benoni]

What you are all missing is two points. First point is carnal man cannot believe unless God first called him; and obviously this has not happened; second point not all are being called NOW.



If God calls you, you have no choice…….God is calling out a people to do His will; only His firstfruits each in the own order/arrangement/troop

1 Corinthians 15:22-24

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


(order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession:

If God does not call you, you cannot come.


(Acts 2:39)
"For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF, even  as many as the Lord our God shall call."

(Acts 2:39)Amp
And Peter answered them, Repent (change your views and purpose to accept the will of God in your inner selves instead of rejecting it) and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of and release from your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
    39For the promise [of the Holy Spirit] is to and for you and your children, and to and for all that are far away, [even] to and for as many as the Lord our God invites and bids to come to Himself.(A


Luke 3: 6
(Amp) And all mankind shall see (behold and [a]understand
and at last acknowledge) the salvation of God
(the deliverance from eternal death decreed by God).

[myth-one.com]

If God does not call you, you cannot come.

I dunno. It doesn't really seem to say that:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Whosoever seems to offer salvation to most anyone -- even someone like me.

How can those called be identified? Do they wear expensive suits, live in mansions, meet with Presidents, appear in highly elevated pulpits, wear fancy robes and pointed hats, and sell millions of books?

[myth-one.com]

Can anybody explain this? Why is it that even one human would live and die without ever hearing about the god of the Bible? Doesn't this sound nonsensical in the context of the claims of "an objective purpose to life" and the infinite love of this ninja deity?

All humans will hear the true good news of the Bible and make their personal choice to accept or reject Jesus as their Savior from sin. The vast majority will be taught this good news of the gospel after their first "death." They will then be able to compare God's way with that of man -- which they have experienced first hand.

Mankind is here to learn that our way is not the best way:

There is a way that seemeth right unto a man; but the end thereof are the ways of death. (Proverbs 14:12)

It's a well designed plan. Have no fear!

[Benoni]

The word draw us as stated in John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Gk(drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day. and John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (Gk(drag) all men unto me. The word draw is the Greek word from Strong’s 1670: helkuo (hel-koo'-o);or helko (hel'-ko); probably akin to 138; to drag (literally or figuratively): There is no choice for the person when God draws you, drags you or forces you to come; it is God's choice not little man.


The Bible declares that God will draw all men unto me. In other words God will draw/drag or force all men unto Him. No freewill or choice when this will happen.

If God does not call you, you cannot come.

I dunno. It doesn't really seem to say that:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Whosoever seems to offer salvation to most anyone -- even someone like me.

How can those called be identified? Do they wear expensive suits, live in mansions, meet with Presidents, appear in highly elevated pulpits, wear fancy robes and pointed hats, and sell millions of books?

[myth-one.com]

The Bible declares that God will draw all men unto me. In other words God will draw/drag or force all men unto Him. No freewill or choice when this will happen.

Ok. So why do we need churches?

[Benoni]

Good Point?

The word church is a Greek word ekklicia meaning the called out. There are two churches in the Bible. The true Church which is Christ with in. And the false church which is Babylon.


Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

The Bible declares that God will draw all men unto me. In other words God will draw/drag or force all men unto Him. No freewill or choice when this will happen.

Ok. So why do we need churches?