Those who haven't heard about God.

[Woland]

Hello all,

Keeping it simple as usual, why are there people who never get to even hear about (your, or in some cases any) "god"?

Is it reasonable to believe that a conceptual, benevolent and powerful deity wouldn't make itself and its message known to each of us if it was capable of doing so?

How can we explain the "apparent" geographical favoritism of the allegedly all-powerful Bible deity in making itself known?

-Woland

[Woland]

I admit that I thought this would stir up more interest. Is there no theist who cares to propose tentative answers to the questions so that they can be examined?

[JehovahsWitness]

Hello all,

Keeping it simple as usual, why are there people who never get to even hear about (your, or in some cases any) "god"?

Is it reasonable to believe that a conceptual, benevolent and powerful deity wouldn't make itself and its message known to each of us if it was capable of doing so?

How can we explain the "apparent" geographical favoritism of the allegedly all-powerful Bible deity in making itself known?-Woland

I believe God's message is transmitted to mankind through the bible and taken personally to people through the worldwide preaching campaign of Jehovah's Witnesses.


** According to Bibelreport of June 2002, the Bible has been translated into 2,287 languages—at least in part.

**There are presently an estimated 5 billion copies of the bible so far produced (in whole or in part).

**The bible has been translated and printed and distributed more than any other book in human history, with more than 100 million new copies produced each year.

**. According to the American Bible Society, nearly a decade ago the languages in which the Bible was printed made it available to some 98 percent of the world’s population.

It is conceivable that within the near future more bible's will have been produced than people alive on the planet.

Jehovah's Witnesses recognise the need to take the message personally to peoples homes and are currently active in 236 lands throughout the globe; in 2009 they spent a total of 1,557,788,344 hours preaching the gospel.

Video Documentary
http://www.4shared.com/video/A8ytL06h/O ... _News.html

[myth-one.com]

I believe God's message is transmitted to mankind through the bible and taken personally to people through the worldwide preaching campaign of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Yes, the "Great Commission" commands Christians to spread the gospel among all nations:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20)

And the Bible states that the Great Commission must be fulfilled before the end times can occur:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

But although I applaud the efforts of those doing their best to fulfill the Great Commission, the Bible goes on to prophesy that man will fail in spreading the gospel to all the nations. Shortly before the Second Coming, God has to send an angel to fulfill this prophecy before the end of this age can occur:

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. (Revelation 14:6)

If God must send an angel to preach the gospel to every nation, then the church failed in this effort!

With the wonderful worldwide communications systems of today and the vast availability of the Bible, how can mankind fail? My guess is that we are spreading the wrong gospel good news!

Most Christian religions accept that all mankind is born with an "immortal soul" which cannot perish. Consequently, any punishment for the non-believer must last eternally. Let's not even argue at this point over what the punishment entails. Any conscious punishment that lasts eternally is not good news for anyone! Even a toothache.

Although man will certainly fail in spreading the gospel to all nations, I am certainly not suggesting that we give up and forfeit the game. It remains a worthwhile effort. Those who abandon the good life of our wonderful country in an effort to fulfill the Great Commission, heal, and otherwise minister to those in need deserve admiration.

[JehovahsWitness]

... the Bible goes on to prophesy that man will fail in spreading the gospel to all the nations. Shortly before the Second Coming, God has to send an angel to fulfill this prophecy before the end of this age can occur:

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. (Revelation 14:6)

If God must send an angel to preach the gospel to every nation, then the church failed in this effort!

Interesting point. Firstly, the scripture does NOT say that human efforts to spread the good news "failed" the word or the idea of failure is not mentioned at all. Alhtough you personally have concluded this it is not based on scripture.

The angels have traditionally HELPED humans in their endeavors, either by announcing God's instructions so that humans can continue or by physically directing them (as was the case of the Angel God sent ahead of the Israelites). Notice what Jesus actually said when commissioning his followers

and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20)

Are we to conclude that a people working with Jesus and his Father would "fail"? This seem an unreasonable conclusion. The bible says that anything God delights to do has "certain success" (see Isaiah 55:11) and since the preaching of the Good news by his human servants is a "commission" from God through Jesus, scripturally there is no way to conclude that that commission will "fail". It was given to humans (not angels) and it will be fulfilled by humans (not angels). There is no power in heaven or on earth that can stop Jehovah from drawing to himself those who are “rightly disposed for everlasting life.�—Acts 13:48; John 6:44.

This having been said, Jesus did seem to indicate that every individual is not to expect a personal visit by one of Jehovah's Witnessses but that the "nations" will indeed have a witnesses to the satisfaction of God before they are destroyed.

#QUESTION: Why is the angel of Revelation therefore needed? First of all angels are spirits and cannot literally be seenor heard by humans unless they materialize and come to earth (as has happened on occassion in bible times in the past) Notice that the angel is not depicted as being "on earth" but being in the "midth of heaven" or "midheaven". This expression is applied to where the birds fly. (Compare Revelation 19:17.) so while the angels do not literally come to earth to filfill the commission the effects of their "declaration" are felt and heard because they do what they have done in the past, they HELP God's people to preach the word and find "sheeplike" ones.

In any case, while we cannot attatch the word "failure" to any of God's commissions, whether by angelic means or humans, mankind will indeed recieve sufficient warning of coming destruction and the opportunity to take actions that will save the lives of themselves and their families before its too late (see Matthew 24:39)

My guess is that we are spreading the wrong gospel good news!

In this you are right: YOU and other non-Witnsses are indeed spreading the "wrong" good news, since no message that is not firmly founded on scripture counts or has God's backing. "We" (Jehovah's Witnesses) ARE preaching the Good News Jesus declared in the first century and again, that work (the work of Jehovah's Witnesses) is continuing at a fine pace. Indeed there are presently no Nations that do not have Jehovah's Witnesses in them declaring the "right" gospel.

I am certainly not suggesting that we give up and forfeit the game. It remains a worthwhile effort. Those who abandon the good life of our wonderful country in an effort to fulfill the Great Commission, heal, and otherwise minister to those in need deserve admiration.

Thank you for your commendation - few recognize the amazing work that is being fulfilled in preaching the truth to Americans, Europeans, South Americans, Asians and all people of the earth as is done by Jehovah's Witnesses today.

Your kind words in this regard are most appreciated.

Please feel free to watch the Dvd's below that report on how our work is progressing.

• Jehovah's Witnesses - Organized To Share The Good News
  http://dc120.4shared.com/download/A8ytL ... d_News.avi
  
  To The Ends Of The Earth
  http://dc136.4shared.com/download/FETsv ... _Earth.avi
  
  United By Divine Teaching
  http://dc145.4shared.com/download/glo53 ... aching.avi
  
  Our Whole Association Of Brothers
  http://dc111.4shared.com/download/SSFGx ... others.avi

Regardless of where you are in the world you too can participate in this never to be repeated work by first learning the Truth and then joining us in our public preaching work!

Respect,
JW

Further reading
Are There Angels Among Us?
http://www.watchtower.org/e/19951101/article_01.htm

[JehovahsWitness]

removed duplication

[Benoni]

You have a point; there is a geological favoritism when it comes to location. But that is how God calls people from election. But it is that election of grace that God will bless all that God never called yet.

Hello all,

Keeping it simple as usual, why are there people who never get to even hear about (your, or in some cases any) "god"?

Is it reasonable to believe that a conceptual, benevolent and powerful deity wouldn't make itself and its message known to each of us if it was capable of doing so?

How can we explain the "apparent" geographical favoritism of the allegedly all-powerful Bible deity in making itself known?

-Woland

[Woland]

I must not have expressed myself clearly enough.

I understand that Christians of various denominations believe that they have been called forth to bring the good news to the people of the world.

What I'm interested in knowing is WHY a deity would make itself known only to a small bunch of mostly illiterate desert-dwellers in a specific time and place instead of revealing his SPECIFIC self to all of his creation in all times.

Can anybody explain this? Why is it that even one human would live and die without ever hearing about the god of the Bible? Doesn't this sound nonsensical in the context of the claims of "an objective purpose to life" and the infinite love of this ninja deity?

[JehovahsWitness]

What I'm interested in knowing is WHY a deity would make itself known only to a small bunch of mostly illiterate desert-dwellers in a specific time and place instead of revealing his SPECIFIC self to all of his creation in all times

The answer to this lies in what God's purpose is and why.

That all humans recognise there is a Creator or even who that Creator is is not God's purpose. This is because recognition that we have a Creator is no guarantee that we will respect him. Satan is not an atheist. The demons believe in God because they've met him, the first century writer James pointed out they not only know God exists they "tremble" or recognised his power; this does not mean they are willing to submit ot his rule.

God's purpose is not to eliminate atheism, it is to identify those that have the heart condition that are fitting for future paradise. How he has chosen to work out this plan is a bit involved for someone without the basics in bible knowledge but plan is progressive in nature. In order not to be accursed of stacking the cards in his favor, God has proceeded with the absolute minmum of direct interference, only ensuring that those that have the required qualities have the needed information at the right time.

So in short, instant shouting from heaven would have resulted in a planet that recognised the existence of a Creator but would have achieved little more. The progressive nature of divine revelation ensured the protection and survival of truth for universal declaration in due time (see Proverbs 4:18)

[Woland]

The answer to this lies in what God's purpose is and why.

That all humans recognise there is a Creator or even who that Creator is is not God's purpose. This is because recognition that we have a Creator is no guarantee that we will respect him.

Even if it were true, what you said is absolutely irrelevant.

Recognizing the existence of something is a mandatory first step towards respecting it - nevermind loving it.

What you said implies a deceitful and cruel deity deliberately shielding himself from most of his creation. It's extremely malevolent to shield yourself and your wishes and then blame people for not knowing you exist and respecting your wishes.

Satan is not an atheist.

It's not apparent that "Satan" is anything else at all than an imaginary character, and the quarrels of fictional characters would have no bearing on people's attitudes towards a "god" if such a being made his existence known by other means than the same ones claimed by all sorts of religions.

Again, this is irrelevant.

The demons believe in God because they've met him, the first century writer James pointed out they not only know God exists they "tremble" or recognised his power; this does not mean they are willing to submit ot his rule.

If your deity is so great and loving and powerful, why would anyone KNOWING THIS to be true not want to submit to his perfectly just rule?

Who created the demons?

God's purpose is not to eliminate atheism, it is to identify those that have the heart condition that are fitting for future paradise. How he has chosen to work out this plan is a bit involved for someone without the basics in bible knowledge but plan is progressive in nature.

It's apparent that some Christian religionists need to claim this, yes. However, it does not make such a claim reasonable.

Consider all the hundreds of millions of humans who have lived and died without EVER even hearing about Jesus or the God of the Bible. Are you going to say that none of them was worthy of having at least the knowledge that the Biblegod exists?

In order not to be accursed of stacking the cards in his favor, God has proceeded with the absolute minmum of direct interference, only ensuring that those that have the required qualities have the needed information at the right time.

That's called stacking the cards and setting most people up to fail to even acknowledge god's existence.

So in short, instant shouting from heaven would have resulted in a planet that recognised the existence of a Creator but would have achieved little more.

Any reason to believe this except necessity on your part?

It seems pretty evident to me that if there was an unambiguously miraculous verifiable message from the god of the Bible, then people would flock by the millions to study his wishes and make themselves "better people".

The progressive nature of divine revelation ensured the protection and survival of truth for universal declaration in due time (see Proverbs 4:18)

"In due time" is what all religions promise. I do not wonder why.

-Woland