Did Christianity Inspire The Holocaust?

[WinePusher]

Was Christianity An Influence Of The Holocaust and Adolf Hitler?

Personally, I've seen the people who agree with that statement make two claims. That it was fueled by Roman Catholic Anti-Semiticism, or it was ignited by Martin Luther's replacement theology. I would contend that Christianity was used as a vesel of propoganda that made Hitler's message more potent.

I would dispute the assertion that the Christian God and the Christian Bible inspired/caused the holocaust and motivated Hitler to action. Social Darwinism played much more of a factor in it and the claim that Hitlers was a bible believeing Christian seems to be unfounded.

[cnorman18]

I will say it again: Christianity did not directly inspire or direct the Holocaust, but if the Church had not taught, for more than a thousand years, that Jews were "Christ-killers," and that the Jews obstinately, dishonestly and knowingly refuse to admit that Jesus is their Messiah -- which they know, or should know, to be the truth -- the Holocaust could never have happened.

Further; though the Nazi Holocaust was not under the control of the Church, very many earlier pogroms, persecutions, exiles, injustices, and mass murders absolutely were. It was the Church which ordered, directed and controlled the Crusades, the Church which encouraged the massacres of Jews and the razing of Jewish villages on the way to the Holy Land, the Church which organized and administered the Inquisition, the Church which ordered the exile of Jews from every nation in Europe at various times, the Church which required that Jews be confined to ghettos, the Church which restricted Jews from owning land or working in the skilled trade guilds, and the Church which taught -- again -- that all these horrors were just and proper as punishments for the "crime" of deicide, of murdering Jesus. This is ALL a matter of history, documented by the Church itself, and is not subject to debate. These things were not done by individual "bad Christians," but by the formal teachings and policies of the whole Church. I'm not blaming Jesus; far from it. But the Church, the whole Church, and nothing but the Church, for more than a thousand years, absolutely betrayed Jesus and his teachings in its dealings with my people.

The only proper Christian response to these absolutely true and valid charges is confession and repentance, together with an explicit commitment never to repeat these crimes. I taught that from my pulpit as a Christian minister, and I still believe it today.

Repeating the claim that Judaism is tantamount to "the wide path to destruction" is merely repeating these teachings in an attenuated form and continuing the attitude that made these crimes possible, including the Holocaust.

[East of Eden]

I will say it again: Christianity did not directly inspire or direct the Holocaust, but if the Church had not taught, for more than a thousand years, that Jews were "Christ-killers," and that the Jews obstinately, dishonestly and knowingly refuse to admit that Jesus is their Messiah -- which they know, or should know, to be the truth -- the Holocaust could never have happened.

Further; though the Nazi Holocaust was not under the control of the Church, very many earlier pogroms, persecutions, exiles, injustices, and mass murders absolutely were. It was the Church which ordered, directed and controlled the Crusades, the Church which encouraged the massacres of Jews and the razing of Jewish villages on the way to the Holy Land, the Church which organized and administered the Inquisition, the Church which ordered the exile of Jews from every nation in Europe at various times, the Church which required that Jews be confined to ghettos, the Church which restricted Jews from owning land or working in the skilled trade guilds, and the Church which taught -- again -- that all these horrors were just and proper as punishments for the "crime" of deicide, of murdering Jesus. This is ALL a matter of history, documented by the Church itself, and is not subject to debate. These things were not done by individual "bad Christians," but by the formal teachings and policies of the whole Church. I'm not blaming Jesus; far from it. But the Church, the whole Church, and nothing but the Church, for more than a thousand years, absolutely betrayed Jesus and his teachings in its dealings with my people.

The only proper Christian response to these absolutely true and valid charges is confession and repentance, together with an explicit commitment never to repeat these crimes. I taught that from my pulpit as a Christian minister, and I still believe it today.

I would have to agree with that.

Repeating the claim that Judaism is tantamount to "the wide path to destruction" is merely repeating these teachings in an attenuated form and continuing the attitude that made these crimes possible, including the Holocaust.

You've got a bit of a contradiction going here, you say you don't blame Jesus, but when one of His sayings is repeated you say it facilitated the Holocaust. Perhaps we should blame the people who carried out the Holocaust, over the objections and great sacrifice of many Christians?

Jesus' saying about the 'wide path that leads to destruction' was not aimed at the Jews, but anyone who rejects Him as Lord and Savior.

[Abraxas]

I will say it again: Christianity did not directly inspire or direct the Holocaust, but if the Church had not taught, for more than a thousand years, that Jews were "Christ-killers," and that the Jews obstinately, dishonestly and knowingly refuse to admit that Jesus is their Messiah -- which they know, or should know, to be the truth -- the Holocaust could never have happened.

Further; though the Nazi Holocaust was not under the control of the Church, very many earlier pogroms, persecutions, exiles, injustices, and mass murders absolutely were. It was the Church which ordered, directed and controlled the Crusades, the Church which encouraged the massacres of Jews and the razing of Jewish villages on the way to the Holy Land, the Church which organized and administered the Inquisition, the Church which ordered the exile of Jews from every nation in Europe at various times, the Church which required that Jews be confined to ghettos, the Church which restricted Jews from owning land or working in the skilled trade guilds, and the Church which taught -- again -- that all these horrors were just and proper as punishments for the "crime" of deicide, of murdering Jesus. This is ALL a matter of history, documented by the Church itself, and is not subject to debate. These things were not done by individual "bad Christians," but by the formal teachings and policies of the whole Church. I'm not blaming Jesus; far from it. But the Church, the whole Church, and nothing but the Church, for more than a thousand years, absolutely betrayed Jesus and his teachings in its dealings with my people.

The only proper Christian response to these absolutely true and valid charges is confession and repentance, together with an explicit commitment never to repeat these crimes. I taught that from my pulpit as a Christian minister, and I still believe it today.

I would have to agree with that.

Repeating the claim that Judaism is tantamount to "the wide path to destruction" is merely repeating these teachings in an attenuated form and continuing the attitude that made these crimes possible, including the Holocaust.

You've got a bit of a contradiction going here, you say you don't blame Jesus, but when one of His sayings is repeated you say it facilitated the Holocaust. Perhaps we should blame the people who carried out the Holocaust, over the objections and great sacrifice of many Christians?

Jesus' saying about the 'wide path that leads to destruction' was not aimed at the Jews, but anyone who rejects Him as Lord and Savior.

Point of fact, the vast, vast majority of those carrying out the holocaust were Christians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_i ... Secularism

"Before World War II, about two-thirds of the German population was Protestant and one-third was Roman Catholic. In the north and northeast of Germany especially, Protestants dominated. "

[cnorman18]

Repeating the claim that Judaism is tantamount to "the wide path to destruction" is merely repeating these teachings in an attenuated form and continuing the attitude that made these crimes possible, including the Holocaust.

You've got a bit of a contradiction going here, you say you don't blame Jesus, but when one of His sayings is repeated you say it facilitated the Holocaust.

Please show me where Jesus ever said that Judaism was the path to destruction. Jesus was a Jew, you know. When, exactly, did he condemn his own people and himself to Hell?

Perhaps we should blame the people who carried out the Holocaust, over the objections and great sacrifice of many Christians?

"Many?"

There were between fifteen and twenty thousand concentration camps in Europe. Virtually all the guards, staffers, civilian workers, and administrators of those camps were Christians. The overwhelming majority of European Christians were complicit in the Holocaust, but that was never my point anyway. You have already agreed with my point, then backed away from that agreement by repeating the Replacement Theology that says that Jews are condemned to Hell unless they renounce their Judaism and become Christians, as you do again here:

Jesus' saying about the 'wide path that leads to destruction' was not aimed at the Jews, but anyone who rejects Him as Lord and Savior.

That means Jews who insist on remaining Jews, which is exactly where we have been for two thousand years. Jews could always -- until Hitler -- escape persecution by simply confessing Jesus. Don't you GET this?!? That's the teaching that made the Holocaust possible. "Jews are going to Hell anyway; let's give them a little encouragement to come to Jesus and escape it!" That was the reasoning behind the Inquisition, the pogroms, the exiles -- ALL of it!

Sorry about that, but once again, you are presuming to define Judaism for Jews and demanding that they renounce their religion -- the religion of Jesus himself -- or go to Hell.

Take a look at the "Unhealed Wound" thread. We can deal with these issues with more focus there.

[fewwillfindit]

Point of fact, the vast, vast majority of those carrying out the holocaust were Christians.

Correction; professing Christians.

A profession does not a Christian make:

Matthew 7:16 KJV

Ye shall know them by their fruits.

This is not to say that the Church doesn't bear the full responsibility to confess its complicity in the Holocaust and do everything in its power to change the dialogue with and perception of Jews from within its ranks. It does, and the sooner the better.

But true Christians did not commit those atrocities.

[cnorman18]

Point of fact, the vast, vast majority of those carrying out the holocaust were Christians.

Correction; professing Christians.

A profession does not a Christian make:

Matthew 7:16 KJV

Ye shall know them by their fruits.

This is not to say that the Church doesn't bear the full responsibility to confess its complicity in the Holocaust and do everything in its power to change the dialogue with and perception of Jews from within its ranks. It does, and the sooner the better.

But true Christians did not commit those atrocities.

Don't everybody jump on the "no true Scotsman" thing; I'm a Jew, and he's right. By saying that these teachings, let alone these actions, betrayed the spirit of Jesus, I am saying exactly the same thing. It was certainly never Jesus's intent that these horrors should happen.

Where we would differ is in the perception that the guilt belongs to the individual Christian. It didn't, and doesn't; it belongs to the Church, which was the betrayer. The people were carrying out the things they had been taught. Few were being taught what "true Christianity" meant in those days. In some circles, few still are.

[East of Eden]

Point of fact, the vast, vast majority of those carrying out the holocaust were Christians.

Correction; professing Christians.

A profession does not a Christian make:

Matthew 7:16 KJV

Ye shall know them by their fruits.

This is not to say that the Church doesn't bear the full responsibility to confess its complicity in the Holocaust and do everything in its power to change the dialogue with and perception of Jews from within its ranks. It does, and the sooner the better.

But true Christians did not commit those atrocities.

Don't everybody jump on the "no true Scotsman" thing; I'm a Jew, and he's right. By saying that these teachings, let alone these actions, betrayed the spirit of Jesus, I am saying exactly the same thing. It was certainly never Jesus's intent that these horrors should happen.

Where we would differ is in the perception that the guilt belongs to the individual Christian. It didn't, and doesn't; it belongs to the Church, which was the betrayer. The people were carrying out the things they had been taught. Few were being taught what "true Christianity" meant in those days. In some circles, few still are.

Or could it be that few decide to truly implement the teaching? You know, the narrow road vs. the broad road most take.

You use too broad a brush by saying the Church was guilty. There was a large Confessing Church movement opposed to the apostate state church. As early as 1933 6,000 pastors had joined the Confessing Church movement. By 1937 more than 800 Confessing Church pastors and lay leaders were imprisoned or arrested. By 1941 Himmler was trying vigorously to destroy the Confessing Church, and all Confessing Church pastors who had not been drafted were forced to abandon their pastorates and given jobs of "some useful activity". The Gestapo's treatment of pastors at interrogations was pretty much the same as that of criminals.

Himmler as early as 1936 ordered SS members to resign leadership in religous organizations, and he forbade SS musicians from participating in religious services, even out of uniform. He later forbade SS members from attending church services.

According to Einstein, the church was the German institution that did the most to oppose Hitler, far more than the media or academia.

[East of Eden]

Please show me where Jesus ever said that Judaism was the path to destruction. Jesus was a Jew, you know. When, exactly, did he condemn his own people and himself to Hell?

He said anyone who rejected him was on the path to destruction. "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but through me." "For God so loved the world, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but shall have eternal life." It was to a very religious Jewish man (Nicodemus), that He said, "You must be born again."

"Many?"

There were between fifteen and twenty thousand concentration camps in Europe. Virtually all the guards, staffers, civilian workers, and administrators of those camps were Christians. The overwhelming majority of European Christians were complicit in the Holocaust, but that was never my point anyway.

And millions of victims of the death camps were Christians. IMHO there is way too much anti-Semitism in Europe today, and there is very little active Christianity there.

You have already agreed with my point, then backed away from that agreement by repeating the Replacement Theology that says that Jews are condemned to Hell unless they renounce their Judaism and become Christians, as you do again here:

Jesus' saying about the 'wide path that leads to destruction' was not aimed at the Jews, but anyone who rejects Him as Lord and Savior.

What you call 'Replacement Theology' I call Christianity.

That means Jews who insist on remaining Jews, which is exactly where we have been for two thousand years. Jews could always -- until Hitler -- escape persecution by simply confessing Jesus. Don't you GET this?!? That's the teaching that made the Holocaust possible. "Jews are going to Hell anyway; let's give them a little encouragement to come to Jesus and escape it!" That was the reasoning behind the Inquisition, the pogroms, the exiles -- ALL of it!

I've already condemned that. You don't judge a philosophy by it's misuse. Are you going to blame Christianity for the Muslim Jew-hate going on all over the world too?

Sorry about that, but once again, you are presuming to define Judaism for Jews and demanding that they renounce their religion -- the religion of Jesus himself -- or go to Hell.

And you presume to judge what true Christianity is in your post 36.

[McCulloch]

What you call 'Replacement Theology' I call Christianity.

This one statement encapsulates why I think that CNorman is tilting at windmills. He is asking the Christians to abandon the essence of Christianity. Christianity, being an exclusive monotheistic religion, is the teaching that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, through whom anyone who would be redeemed to the one and only God must put their faith. The Jews are not alone in being condemned by the Christians. Those Christians who actually believe what is written in their Bible, believe that everyone who does not have faith in Jesus will be condemned for their sins.

But the Jews have a special place in Christian theology. To the Christians, Jesus is the fulfillment of Jewish theology. He is the universal redeemer of humanity, who was predicted by the Jewish prophets. He is the Son of the God of Abraham, Jacob, Moses and David. Replacement theology is a crucial piece of Christianity and without it, the entire basis for the theological claims of Christianity fall apart.

[East of Eden]

What you call 'Replacement Theology' I call Christianity.

This one statement encapsulates why I think that CNorman is tilting at windmills. He is asking the Christians to abandon the essence of Christianity. Christianity, being an exclusive monotheistic religion, is the teaching that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, through whom anyone who would be redeemed to the one and only God must put their faith. The Jews are not alone in being condemned by the Christians. Those Christians who actually believe what is written in their Bible, believe that everyone who does not have faith in Jesus will be condemned for their sins.

But the Jews have a special place in Christian theology. To the Christians, Jesus is the fulfillment of Jewish theology. He is the universal redeemer of humanity, who was predicted by the Jewish prophets. He is the Son of the God of Abraham, Jacob, Moses and David. Replacement theology is a crucial piece of Christianity and without it, the entire basis for the theological claims of Christianity fall apart.

Good summary, I wish I had said it as well. There is no offense intended to Jews by stating this.