Put price on body parts to pay for Health care?

[DeBunkem]

The Conservative/For-Profit system we have all loved so well is threatened with cost implosion, burdening businesses and citizens alike with unaffordable access. A Dem Congressman rightly summed up the status-quo solution for the uninsured poor as "Die quicker."
What a missed oportunity for corporate profiteers! Why not adopt the resourceful method of a fellow capitalist system, India, and corporatize body parts of the poor? We let those lovable private insurance adjustors focus on setting up service-for-organ free-market solutions instead of denial of treatment, which does not produce new profits. We already allow the poor to sell their blood for cash...why not just go for "broke"? One kidney for a hernia operation, for example. To minimize operating time (surgeons can "cut" into the bottom line) the salable organ should be accessible to the site of surgery, thus making two operations unnecessary. Our heroic Lobbyists can even buy a Bill from their Congressional servants making it illegal to do otherwise. Harvested organs can be sold to highest bidder and/or shipped to reassemble soldiers fighting for our beloved oil.
So why strip mine and clear cut the planet while ignoring the neglected riches to be had in the poor consumers? We are an "Exceptionalist" country, after all.

[WinePusher]

The Conservative/For-Profit system we have all loved so well is threatened with cost implosion, burdening businesses and citizens alike with unaffordable access.

Yea, take responsibility for your OWN health needs and don't burden the rest of society. Guess what, health insurance premiums have gone UP because I have to now pay for those in society who don't have it. Why are Liberals are so benevolent with other people's money.

A Dem Congressman rightly summed up the status-quo solution for the uninsured poor as "Die quicker."

Ha Ha Ha Ha X D!!! This again shows you how despicable to media is, they'll attack conservatives for hate speech left and right, but when a liberal does it everyone's ok with it.

What a missed oportunity for corporate profiteers! Why not adopt the resourceful method of a fellow capitalist system, India, and corporatize body parts of the poor? We let those lovable private insurance adjustors focus on setting up service-for-organ free-market solutions instead of denial of treatment, which does not produce new profits.

The fact is, this government which you seem to love so much fails at everything. They run social security and medicare and look, they're BANKRUPT. Our hospitals are now going to be reduced to the quality of the post offices and the DMV. Privatize social security and medicare/medicade, keep healthcare a private sector industry and keep the student loan industry privatized. We don't need a bloated bureacracy running this country.

So why strip mine and clear cut the planet while ignoring the neglected riches to be had in the poor consumers? We are an "Exceptionalist" country, after all.

You, and every other left wing "thinker" assumes the false premise that if the citizens and the market were left to themselves they would be selfish with their money.

[McCulloch]

Yea, take responsibility for your OWN health needs and don't burden the rest of society.

It is all a matter of your own perspective on the individual as opposed to society. If you believe that the individual is sovereign then you would be right. However, if you believe that either we have evolved as a social species (secular version) or that God has told us to love our neighbors as ourselves and to love our enemies (religious version), then you should be able to see how taking care of our health needs collectively might be a good thing.

Guess what, health insurance premiums have gone UP because I have to now pay for those in society who don't have it. Why are Liberals are so benevolent with other people's money.

Why the heck do you have health insurance? Insurance is merely a scheme to make those who have fewer health needs pay for the health care of those who have greater needs. Take responsibility for your OWN health needs and don't be a burden on the rest of those in your insurance plan.

You, and every other left wing "thinker" assumes the false premise that if the citizens and the market were left to themselves they would be selfish with their money.

Perhaps that is because we have so many examples. When the sole measure of your success is the rate of return on the investor's capital, things like ethics and morality become a nuisance. BP, Monsanto, the Tobacco industry, thalidomide, Enron, Arthur Andersen ...

[WinePusher]

It is all a matter of your own perspective on the individual as opposed to society. If you believe that the individual is sovereign then you would be right. However, if you believe that either we have evolved as a social species (secular version) or that God has told us to love our neighbors as ourselves and to love our enemies (religious version), then you should be able to see how taking care of our health needs collectively might be a good thing.

I'm not opposed to taking care of the less fortunate, not am I opposed to the fact that we are social creatures. But if you choose to eat unhealthy foods, and you choose not to exercise and you choose not to live well then you should not burden me nor others; but the fact is before Obamacare a poor guy who needed a heart transplant would still get it.

The fact is, when society becomes "socialist" and dependent on others the society fails. Just look at every single communist country that has existed, communism has never worked and has been tried repeatedly.

You, and every other left wing "thinker" assumes the false premise that if the citizens and the market were left to themselves they would be selfish with their money.

Perhaps that is because we have so many examples. When the sole measure of your success is the rate of return on the investor's capital, things like ethics and morality become a nuisance. BP, Monsanto, the Tobacco industry, thalidomide, Enron, Arthur Andersen ...

No, actually some of the richest people in America are the greatest charity contributors. Rarely do you find a billionare who isn't funding a charity organization, just look at Bill Gates. A country should provide equal oppurtunity for all peoples of all races and income levels, but they shouldn't provide equal outcome. You should be able to go to start a businees regardless of whether you can afford it or not, but if you fail because you took unwise risks-thats your fault, and you shouldn't be bailed out at the expense of others who did work hard.

[DeBunkem]

It is all a matter of your own perspective on the individual as opposed to society. If you believe that the individual is sovereign then you would be right. However, if you believe that either we have evolved as a social species (secular version) or that God has told us to love our neighbors as ourselves and to love our enemies (religious version), then you should be able to see how taking care of our health needs collectively might be a good thing.

I'm not opposed to taking care of the less fortunate, not am I opposed to the fact that we are social creatures. But if you choose to eat unhealthy foods, and you choose not to exercise and you choose not to live well then you should not burden me nor others; but the fact is before Obamacare a poor guy who needed a heart transplant would still get it.

The fact is, when society becomes "socialist" and dependent on others the society fails. Just look at every single communist country that has existed, communism has never worked and has been tried repeatedly.

You, and every other left wing "thinker" assumes the false premise that if the citizens and the market were left to themselves they would be selfish with their money.

Perhaps that is because we have so many examples. When the sole measure of your success is the rate of return on the investor's capital, things like ethics and morality become a nuisance. BP, Monsanto, the Tobacco industry, thalidomide, Enron, Arthur Andersen ...

No, actually some of the richest people in America are the greatest charity contributors. Rarely do you find a billionare who isn't funding a charity organization, just look at Bill Gates. A country should provide equal oppurtunity for all peoples of all races and income levels, but they shouldn't provide equal outcome. You should be able to go to start a businees regardless of whether you can afford it or not, but if you fail because you took unwise risks-thats your fault, and you shouldn't be bailed out at the expense of others who did work hard.

I am sure that you apply that to "too big to fail" Corporations that Bush bailed out with trillions of our tax dollars, making us the biggest Socialist experiment on the planet. We have always had Socialism for the rich, and a few of them like Bill Gates that give some back are the exceptions that prove the rule.
It may come as a surprise to you that people get deathly sick and injured who practice very responsible health regimes. Why should all these people be penalized with either death or lifetime poverty because they were so human as to get sick? Did you know that older people also begin to have many health problems in spite of the healthiest habits? In Libertarian countries such as Honduras and India, the solution really is "Die quicker." You really think we need to go further down that road than we already have travelled?
If "socialized" healthcare is so unpatriotic, why are all Conservative Congressmen and the military on it? Why don't all the Republicans opt out of Tri-Care and demand that conservative government workers do the same? This would save us millions, considering the sheer bulk of obesity, addiction, mental illness and alcoholism that We the People are forced to subsidize with these socialists.. Why not go the proven cheaper route of universal healthcare and join the civilized world? Answer...billionaires can bribe Congress but the rest of us can't.

Myth: The U.S. has the best health care system in the world.

Fact: The U.S. has among the worst health statistics of all rich nations.

Summary

The U.S. does not have the best health care system in the world - it has the best emergency care system in the world. Advanced U.S. medical technology has not translated into better health statistics for its citizens; indeed, the U.S. ranks near the bottom in list after list of international comparisons. Part of the problem is that there is more profit in a pound of cure than an ounce of prevention. Another part of the problem is that America has the highest level of poverty and income inequality among all rich nations, and poverty affects one's health much more than the limited ministrations of a formal health care system.

Argument

Let's review the health care statistics first, and analyze them afterwards. All statistics here are for the year 1991; they have generally become worse for the U.S. since then.

Health Care Expenditures (percent of GDP) (1)

United States 13.4%
Canada 10.0
Finland 9.1
Sweden 8.6
Germany 8.4
Netherlands 8.4
Norway 7.6
Japan 6.8
United Kingdom 6.6
Denmark 6.5

Doctors' incomes: (2)

United States $132,300
Germany 91,244
Denmark 50,585
Finland 42,943
Norway 35,356
Sweden 25,768

Percent of population covered by public health care:

ALL NATIONS (except below) 100%
France, Austria 99
Switzerland, Spain, Belgium 98
Germany 92
Netherlands 77
United States 40

Average paid maternity leave (as of 1991; this changed with Clinton's
signing of the 1993 Family and Medical Leave Act):

Sweden 32 weeks
France 28
United Kingdom 18
Norway 18
Denmark 18
Japan 14
Germany 14
Netherlands 12
United States 0

MORE http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-healthcare.htm

[DeBunkem]

Be all that as it may, let's pose the query so: Would it be ethical to allow US citizens to sell organs in exchange for health care? Would this not be the ultimate "taking full responsibility" for yourself and your own personal health?

[Goat]

Yea, take responsibility for your OWN health needs and don't burden the rest of society.

It is all a matter of your own perspective on the individual as opposed to society. If you believe that the individual is sovereign then you would be right. However, if you believe that either we have evolved as a social species (secular version) or that God has told us to love our neighbors as ourselves and to love our enemies (religious version), then you should be able to see how taking care of our health needs collectively might be a good thing.

Guess what, health insurance premiums have gone UP because I have to now pay for those in society who don't have it. Why are Liberals are so benevolent with other people's money.

I would like to know when health insurance has NOT gone up? I have been paying more and getting less for health insurance for the last 25+ years, every year.

It happens again , and all of a sudden it's 'obamacare'???

[WinePusher]

I am sure that you apply that to "too big to fail" Corporations that Bush bailed out with trillions of our tax dollars, making us the biggest Socialist experiment on the planet.

Again, you don't seem to understand that it was my side (the conservatives) who opposted the corporate bailout. The liberal, socialist left gleefully tookover the auto industries and butted their noses into the banks.

We have always had Socialism for the rich, and a few of them like Bill Gates that give some back are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Can you give me a millionaire that is greedy and does no philantrophy with their money?

It may come as a surprise to you that people get deathly sick and injured who practice very responsible health regimes.

I'm not understanding this one.......

Why should all these people be penalized with either death or lifetime poverty because they were so human as to get sick?

That is why we should focus on lowering costs. Obamacare DOES NOT lower costs, it forces insurance companies to raise costs because they have to insure more people and cover pre existing conditions forcing a higher risk rate.

Did you know that older people also begin to have many health problems in spite of the healthiest habits? In Libertarian countries such as Honduras and India, the solution really is "Die quicker." You really think we need to go further down that road than we already have travelled?

I think Obamacare has thrown us full force down the "Die Quicker" road. The dishonorable congressperson from Florida was merely projecting.

If "socialized" healthcare is so unpatriotic, why are all Conservative Congressmen and the military on it?

What? The military is on triage care, which isn't socialism and I have no clue what congresspeople are on. However, I know our supposed "representatives" have the ability to opt out of this Obamacare monstrocity. How about congress does it job and represent the interests of their constituents, who oppose Obamacare.

[Wyvern]

I am sure that you apply that to "too big to fail" Corporations that Bush bailed out with trillions of our tax dollars, making us the biggest Socialist experiment on the planet.

Again, you don't seem to understand that it was my side (the conservatives) who opposted the corporate bailout. The liberal, socialist left gleefully tookover the auto industries and butted their noses into the banks.

So you're saying that Bush is a part of the liberal socialist left? Why is it you always want to blame liberals for things they don't do when they are perceived as bad and at the same time wont give them credit when they do something that is considered good?

That is why we should focus on lowering costs. Obamacare DOES NOT lower costs, it forces insurance companies to raise costs because they have to insure more people and cover pre existing conditions forcing a higher risk rate.

I don't think you realize that one of the big reasons health costs have been going up so much so quickly is that the hospitals are required to render care regardless of ability to pay. To make it worse the people without coverage have to go to emergency care which is more expensive than general care not to mention they also wait longer than a person with coverage would so usually their condition is worse which increases costs even further. The hospitals aren't going to eat the loss instead they increase costs across the board which you eventually see in the form of ever increasing insurance premiums.

I would like to know what you would have us do with people with pre existing conditions. If insurance companies are allowed to deny them coverage then you naturally have an even larger pool of people that will be forced to use emergency rooms as their primary form of healthcare who already have serious health conditions which the hospitals will be forced to treat and then pass on even larger fees onto their paying customers.

What? The military is on triage care, which isn't socialism and I have no clue what congresspeople are on. However, I know our supposed "representatives" have the ability to opt out of this Obamacare monstrocity. How about congress does it job and represent the interests of their constituents, who oppose Obamacare.

I can tell you have never been in the military. Every branch of the military runs its own health care system which serves military personnel their dependants and retirees. It has its own primary care clinics and hospitals whose personnel are attached to more mobile forms of healthcare during conflicts. For example I was a corpsman in the navy, during peacetime I was stationed at Naval Hospital Oakland, at the same time I was attached to the USHS Mercy. Additionally every other tour male corpsmen would serve with the marines. Back on the subject military healthcare is socialized care, noone pays any premiums and only a nominal fee when they receive care. Mind you this is from twenty years ago when I served but naval doctors didn't even have to pay for their own malpractice insurance, many did not even have to pay for their schooling the navy did it all for them.