Do Obama And His Liberal Friends Despise America?

[WinePusher]

I'd say yes, Liberals and the current president do despise America and what she stands for. Here are the factors that lead me to this conclusion.

1) Statements and Quotations From The President and Cabinet Officials. The Attorney General called this a "nation of cowards." The President went to Europe and Cairo where he called America an "arrogant" nation and apologized for our wrongdoings. The president likes associating with America Haters such as Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers and Van Jones.

2) The president and his liberal friends clearly have contempt for the constitution. They adamently oppose the second amendment, they have increased the size of the federal government instead of limiting it; they scorn state's rights and the 10th amendment. The promote first amendment violating laws such as the fairness doctrine.

3) The president and his attorney general have a very lenient and sympathetic stance towards the vicious killers who attacked us on 9/11. Some administration officials oppose water boarding under an circumstance (P.J Crowley), even if american lives are at risk. They want to give these terrorists civilian trials, and jeopardize the lives of the Judge, the Jurors, and the Prosecutor forever. The liberal ACLU and Justice Department Attornies seem more than glad to defend these terrorists, and the "Adams Project", affiliated with the ACLU, takes pictures of CIA interrogators and shows them to GITMO detainees.

4) The left wing has always shown distaste for our military, our police officers, and our border patrol. It was the Liberal Anti War traitors in the 60's who alienated and marganalized returning Vietnam War Vets, it is the treacherous code pink who protest our brave troops, it was the liberal activist Elena Herrada who called compared our Border Patrol to the KKK.

5) The cultural left wing hollywood elites have been shown to have contempt for America's traditional values. They promote single motherhood with glee, they promote teenager pregnancies with glee, and they promote wedlock marriages with glee. I challenge anyone to give me a movie that promotes the nuclear family, and self reliance, and a healthy heterosexual marriage. The liberal Actors such as Oliver Stone speak fondly of Stalin and Castro.

Questions For Debate:

Do Obama and the left wing despise America?
Is my list of factors justified, or am I just being a "fear monger"?

[Ooberman]

If you truly believe Obama is trying to destroy America, do something about it. Try to impeach him. Use militia force to remove him. If you TRULY believe it, then it is your duty to do something about it.

The tea party is big enough; if they really wanted to set politics aside then they have enough power or momentum to impeach Obama.

No thy don't.

Well I haven’t seen Obama do anything to bring the country together. He gives more support to other countries than he does America.

Huh?

That sounds like Glenn Beck. He went to fox from CNN? He isn’t a republican, he is a independent that use to be a Dem. That doesn’t speak very highly of the Democratic Party.

Don't know and don't care about Beck. He's a cancer.

I always seen Clinton as one of those politians that tries to fit in, but really doesn’t. He will say anything he can to “buy a vote.�

Which politician doesn't? I know that's the Slick-Willy line you've bought from the likes of Rush, but he was a Populist and a damn good president as far as what can be measured. Not perfect, but damn good. Take out the Lewinsky thing and what was wrong with him?

Besides de-regulating the Media.

[WinePusher]

Winepusher, you are claiming that he is subverting the democratic process, so how do you plan on electing someone if the elections are rigged?

Perhaps it was your failure to read which instigated such an irrational and hateful post. Unless you can quote verbatim of me claiming he is subverting the ddemocratic process, retract it. My claim was that he despises America and what she stands for.

If he is truly destroying the country, then you should treat him like any traitor... or, are you going to back off and accept that he is just a regular president no worse than many, no better than some?

Where is the logic in that?

A) A man is destroying the country
Therefore:
B) He is a traitor?

But aside from your fallacious reasoning, I stand by what I said.

You are the one using crazy rhetoric. Obviously (and if you were intellectually honest, you would admit it) I am not proposing you do anything violent,

Did you not say that I should used militia force to remove Obama? Do you know what a militia is? If you don't understand words, it would be prudent to find the definition of the word before posting it.

Oh! OH! OMG, Obama is destroying America! He is trashing the Constitution! He's going to turn us into Nazi Germany! Oh! You should be outraged! Oh! Oh!....

... Um, I'm going to exercise my freedom and go vote now."

Do you shamefully attribute that quote to me? If so, what you are engaging in is called a lie, which is aganist the rules.

As for the birth certificate - OMG, you are a laugh. Only the extreme fringe loonies even care about that any more. As if there is a vast conspiracy to hide it.

Yes, same with the fringe left who thinks 9/11 was a Bush hit job. But I doubt you will condemn this because you seem to engage in selective judgement.

People who talk about politics on the level of winepusher, et al, really have no understanding of politics. They understand it via Fox News and Rush, like a couch potato understands dancing via "So You Think You Can Dance".

I don't know what promoted such an insulting and hateful post from you. I would have thought a 2 year member of this forum would be above this type of language.

Do something. Stop talking about political entertainment shows.

HAH! You really haven't been reading the posts, quote me referencing political entertainment shows.

It's easy to point fingers, like winepusher is, when you don't know anything. Just mimic Glenn Beck and blame everyone else for your failures... right, winepusher?

Thats a cruel thing to say about anyone. I would expect this type of digusting language on youtube, but not on here. You generally seemed like a nice person, but this type of hateful language has shown your true colors. Quite frankly, I apologize if my original post ignited such vile and repulsive language.

[naz]

Which politician doesn't? I know that's the Slick-Willy line you've bought from the likes of Rush, but he was a Populist and a damn good president as far as what can be measured. Not perfect, but damn good. Take out the Lewinsky thing and what was wrong with him?

Besides de-regulating the Media.

I seen him on MTV and he said I hit the pot but I didn’t inhale. LOL ~ that is about the lamest thing I have ever heard anyone say.

[Ooberman]

My claim was that he despises America and what she stands for.

That is a stupid comment.

Where is the logic in that?

A) A man is destroying the country
Therefore:
B) He is a traitor?

But aside from your fallacious reasoning, I stand by what I said.

Um, yes, a person intent on undermining the country he is a citizen of is called a traitor...

Traitor: a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.

Did you not say that I should used militia force to remove Obama? Do you know what a militia is? If you don't understand words, it would be prudent to find the definition of the word before posting it.

It's a rhetorical device. It's a form of the Slippery Slope fallacy. I show yo how ridiculous your claim is by proposing that if it is as serious as you seem to suggest, then drastic measures should be taken, yet, all the time, obviously showing that I don't agree things are as serious as you suggest.

Was this really lost on you?

Do you shamefully attribute that quote to me? If so, what you are engaging in is called a lie, which is aganist the rules.

It was another rhetorical device - do you really not understand these things?

I am pretending to be a person like you, and using the rhetorical device to show how inane a claim like yours is.

It is parody. Parody is allowed.

Yes, same with the fringe left who thinks 9/11 was a Bush hit job. But I doubt you will condemn this because you seem to engage in selective judgement.

They are stupid. They are also not just Dem's or Libs, BTW.

So, again, sadly, you are wrong.

I don't know what promoted such an insulting and hateful post from you. I would have thought a 2 year member of this forum would be above this type of language.

I'm tired of posts like your OP. I think it is fear-mongering, divisive, hateful and ignorant. I am allowed my opinion of other peoples opinions.

And that is all they are. Opinions. There isn't one poster in a million who actually knows a damn thing about politics, the inner workings of government, etc. It's all just speculating on paltry facts and massive amounts of skewed misinformation.

HAH! You really haven't been reading the posts, quote me referencing political entertainment shows.

Unless you are a member of the Administration, Congress or, perhaps the House, I doubt you are very well qualified to really talk about what Obama's motivations are, and the complexity of the legislation.

Post a bill that he passed and show us exactly how he is undermining the Constitution. If you can't, then you should admit you are simply slandering him - which is still your right, even in ObamaNation.

Thats a cruel thing to say about anyone. I would expect this type of digusting language on youtube, but not on here. You generally seemed like a nice person, but this type of hateful language has shown your true colors. Quite frankly, I apologize if my original post ignited such vile and repulsive language.

As I said, I'm tired it. Your OP was posted to get feelings like this to rise in people, but you were hoping that hot-heads would be banned, and others would calmly address it - as if the OP has merit.

I am sure you are nice, intelligent and great with kids, but am only reacting to the OP. The OP was written by, presumably, a person looking to stir the pot and get a rise out of people. Its partisan - on purpose, and shows no attempt at self-reflection or honest analysis.

Name a specific bill and discuss the pro's and con's, but this personal attack crap of "Obama hates America" is as absurd as Kanye West saying "George Bush doesn't care about black people."

What kind of substance is that?

Seriously, do you really think this is substantive?:

"My claim was that he despises America and what she stands for."

Sorry, it is my opinion that comments like this are stupid. I don't think you are, just the comment.

[naz]

Do Obama and the left wing despise America?

I don’t think they despise America, I just think they are stuck in the past and are having a hard time getting out of it. Or clearly have nothing better to do than bring it up.

Is my list of factors justified, or am I just being a "fear monger"?

Fear Monger? Eh…. Nah. I think a fear monger would preach about how bad the economy is and talk about how affirmative action must be taken or we will all be DOOMED!@#$

[Grumpy]

WinePusher

But I will not stoop down to the level of liberal extremists who feel the need to bomb buildings in order to make a political point.

Like Timothy McVeigh did? He was a Right Winger just like you.

I want the actual birth certificate

No, you want the issue. It allows the racists in the Tea Party to practice their prejudice from behind cover, IMO.

I don't care that hes black

You can't stand that he is black, just like all the crackers around where I live will say in private, but they don't use the word "black".

Obama isn't liberal enough for you?

Nope, not even close.

You think that bailing out failed companies, taking over banks, taking over the student loan industry, taking over the healthcare industry, and regulating wall street is moderate?

George Bush bailed out Wall Street before Obama took office, just another of the Right Wings lies.

Student loans went awry under Bush.

Healthcare should be a government function just like building roads or running schools. Our insurance companies make BILLIONS in profits(obscene profits)on the pain and suffering of the American people, the uninsured drain resources from local hospitals but the rich have no problems getting the best healthcare money can buy and I see no reason everyone in the country shouldn't get exactly what every Congressmen and Senator(even the Republicans)gets for free, guaranteed basic preventative healthcare which will cover every man woman and child. We would save billions over our current get-so-sick-you-need-an-emergency-room idiocy. You pay for the uninsured one way or the other, but national health care is much, much cheeper.

And has the last couple of years taught you nothing about the necessity to reign in the gambling on Wall Street, what would it take for you to open your eyes? Does a slick lawyer need to take your house as well as your retirement fund? They already destroyed the pensions of a whole generation of hard working Americans, sent the whole economy into a tailspin(again, while W was at the helm), walked off with their multimillion dollar salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes, should we all just give them all of our money to save them the trouble of having to steal it or having to purchase the best politicians money can buy to do it for them?

My duty is not to bomb buldings as the fringe left did

Timothy McVeigh was not a lefty, Robert Eric Rudolph was not a lefty, the 911 attackers were certainly not leftys, the Tea Baggers are not leftys, I'm glad someone on the Right fringe rejects such violence.

Grumpy

[WinePusher]

Like Timothy McVeigh did? He was a Right Winger just like you.

Yes. McVeigh was a republican who bombed buildings and is not dead. Ayers is also a
building bomber, but is now a respected thinker on the left and teaches education at a university.

I want the actual birth certificate

No, you want the issue. It allows the racists in the Tea Party to practice their prejudice from behind cover, IMO.

I guess not even members of this forum can refrain from using the race card. First of all, don't tell me what I want, you don't know me.

You can't stand that he is black, just like all the crackers around where I live will say in private, but they don't use the word "black".

Ahhhh. Here we are, a person accuses someone of racial proclivities, and calls white people "crackers." I can't stand that Obama's black? How do YOU know? Do you think calling others racist is a proper way to debate? Have you not learned anything from being on probation, it might suit you if you were to reserve judgement on these issues and be more civil.

George Bush bailed out Wall Street before Obama took office, just another of the Right Wings lies.

Did I claim otherwiese?

And has the last couple of years taught you nothing about the necessity to reign in the gambling on Wall Street, what would it take for you to open your eyes? Does a slick lawyer need to take your house as well as your retirement fund? They already destroyed the pensions of a whole generation of hard working Americans, sent the whole economy into a tailspin(again, while W was at the helm), walked off with their multimillion dollar salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes, should we all just give them all of our money to save them the trouble of having to steal it or having to purchase the best politicians money can buy to do it for them?

Let me point out that Obama gave the banks and AIG billions of dollars of relief, and it was the tax payer bailout money that went to those bonuses your so concerned about. Second of all, the problem at hand is particularly fueled by this administration. I was adamently opposed to bailing out these companies, I'd rather they fail because that is how capitalism works.

Timothy McVeigh was not a lefty,

I realize that.

Robert Eric Rudolph was not a lefty,

He was psychotic, but did associate himself with the far right.

the 911 attackers were certainly not leftys,

Completly irrelevant. They were not righty's either.

the Tea Baggers are not leftys,

Cite instances of violence by the Tea Party. And again, have you learned nothing from probation? Tea Baggers is an offensive, sexual derogatory word.

I'm glad someone on the Right fringe rejects such violence.

Do I? Do I reject the violence you cite. Please quote me where I claim to reject this violence.

[WinePusher]

As I said, I'm tired it. Your OP was posted to get feelings like this to rise in people, but you were hoping that hot-heads would be banned, and others would calmly address it - as if the OP has merit.

I am sure you are nice, intelligent and great with kids, but am only reacting to the OP. The OP was written by, presumably, a person looking to stir the pot and get a rise out of people. Its partisan - on purpose, and shows no attempt at self-reflection or honest analysis.

Name a specific bill and discuss the pro's and con's, but this personal attack crap of "Obama hates America" is as absurd as Kanye West saying "George Bush doesn't care about black people."

What kind of substance is that?

Seriously, do you really think this is substantive?:

"My claim was that he despises America and what she stands for."

Sorry, it is my opinion that comments like this are stupid. I don't think you are, just the comment.

Well, let me say that I pm'ed the moderators and asked them to lock this thread as it has degenerated into personal attacks and hateful incivility. And I probably should have ommitted the inflammatory rhetoric and been more fair into the OP. But do you think that me writing a provocative post justifies you responding with cruel and down right mean comments.

[Grumpy]

WinePusher

No, you want the issue. It allows the racists in the Tea Party to practice their prejudice from behind cover, IMO.

I guess not even members of this forum can refrain from using the race card. First of all, don't tell me what I want, you don't know me.

The signs were not mine. And I know you, I see you every day all around me, I have since I was a boy in the fifties.

Ayers is also a
building bomber, but is now a respected thinker on the left and teaches education at a university.

I guess he rehabilitated himself. By the way, it is a lie to say he bombed any building, he has never been convicted of any such crime. He was a member of a group, some of whom did bomb the Pentagon, however.

As to any connection he has to Obama...

"The only hard facts that have come out so far are the $200 contribution by Ayers to the Obama re-election fund, and their joint membership of the eight-person Woods Fund Board. Ayers did not respond to e-mails and telephone calls requesting clarification of the relationship. Obama spokesman Bill Burton noted in a statement that Ayers was a professor of education at the University of Illinois and a former aide to Mayor Richard M. Daley, and continued:

"Senator Obama strongly condemns the violent actions of the Weathermen group, as he does all acts of violence. But he was an eight-year-old child when Ayers and the Weathermen were active, and any attempt to connect Obama with events of almost forty years ago is ridiculous.""

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-che ... ction.html

George Bush bailed out Wall Street before Obama took office, just another of the Right Wings lies.

Did I claim otherwiese?

Yes, in your very next sentence here...

Let me point out that Obama gave the banks and AIG billions of dollars of relief, and it was the tax payer bailout money that went to those bonuses your so concerned about.

Again, Obama was not President when AiG and the banks were bailed out in September of 2008(Obama took office in January), That fiasco was one of W's legacy.

Second of all, the problem at hand is particularly fueled by this administration.

Clinton leaves office-Budget surpluss.

W leaves office crushing debt, failing companies, millions out of work, two failing, unpaid for wars, "Good job, Brownie."

It has been 18 months since Obama started cleaning up W's mess and as good as he might be, it took 8 years for the Republicans to mess it up and all they have done is throw tantrums saying "No, no, no!" since they were voted into the minority.

the Tea Baggers are not leftys,

Cite instances of violence by the Tea Party. And again, have you learned nothing from probation? Tea Baggers is an offensive, sexual derogatory word.

Tea Partiers, then.

Do I? Do I reject the violence you cite. Please quote me where I claim to reject this violence.

So you are with McVeigh(who was executed) and Rudolph?

Grumpy

[WinePusher]

Thank You for a more civil response

The signs were not mine. And I know you, I see you every day all around me, I have since I was a boy in the fifties.

...........I'll leave this one alone.

Ayers is also a building bomber, but is now a respected thinker on the left and teaches education at a university.

I guess he rehabilitated himself. By the way, it is a lie to say he bombed any building, he has never been convicted of any such crime. He was a member of a group, some of whom did bomb the Pentagon, however.

While one can certainly rehabilitate themselves, blowing up buildings disqualifies a person, forever, from forming education policy.

Again, Obama was not President when AiG and the banks were bailed out in September of 2008(Obama took office in January), That fiasco was one of W's legacy.

Yes, it is Bush's legacy. Is it a good legacy, in your opinion? The bailout was continued by Obama when Bush left office.

Clinton leaves office-Budget surpluss.

No no no. The republican congress that has descretion over appropriations lef the budget surplus..

W leaves office crushing debt, failing companies, millions out of work, two failing, unpaid for wars, "Good job, Brownie."

The only thing correct above is that Bush left a crushing deficit. The wars, according to Biden and Obama, are not failing. The wars, were not failing when Bush left office. And I can't see how you can attribute the failed fiscal policies of private sector companies to the President.

It has been 18 months since Obama started cleaning up W's mess and as good as he might be, it took 8 years for the Republicans to mess it up and all they have done is throw tantrums saying "No, no, no!" since they were voted into the minority.

Firstly, adding trillions more to an already crushing deficit does not make it better.

Secondly, the republicans are only doing what the president and his democrat friends did. The democrats were the ones who started the filibuster of Judicial nominees.

Thirdly, Obama had a filibuster proof majority in the senate for over 5 months. The republicans could have thrown all the temper tantrums they wanted, but they were meaningless. Obama had a majority rule.

Do I? Do I reject the violence you cite. Please quote me where I claim to reject this violence.

So you are with McVeigh(who was executed) and Rudolph?

I'm not with them. However, I don't reject that right wingers have bombed buildings, which you claim I did.