God: Fact or Fiction?

JoshB · Post by **JoshB** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:06 pm

Foreword: I will not take sides in the original post. Though I will interact after feedback, I will merely post the Question and Guidelines. And also, I have mainly posted it to make an arena where Theists and Atheists can use their arguments and weaponry.

Big Question: Is God real or not?

Guidelines:

Saying "The (Insert Book) says hes real/not real!" will not be recognized as a valid argument unless that book provides a factually/logically-grounded argument for its opinion.

Ground your arguments in as much fact and logic as possible.

Stay on topic. We are not here to define what God is, if the Bible is true, or whether or not God is bald. We are just here to argue the existence of some being that most would call God.

No blatantly saying "your wrong" without arguing for your disagreement.

No Pascals Wager. It honestly proves nothing.

sickles · Post by **sickles** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:45 pm

what about gods (plural)

JoshB · Post by **JoshB** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:53 pm

YES. I KNOW THE IDEA OF GOD IS A REAL THING.

Im wondering if there is actually a being that exists that is called God. (So in an attempt to appease you over-literal technicality-lovers, Ill re-phrase the question)

Is the Christian God an actually existent being, or is it merely an idea? A fiction?

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:09 pm

JoshB wrote:YES. I KNOW THE IDEA OF GOD IS A REAL THING.

Im wondering if there is actually a being that exists that is called God. (So in an attempt to appease you over-literal technicality-lovers, Ill re-phrase the question)

Is the Christian God an actually existent being, or is it merely an idea? A fiction?

It is an idea, a myth. None of the baggage this concept of god carries can be shown to be anything more than a myth.

The Mad Haranguer · Post by **The Mad Haranguer** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:07 pm

JoshB wrote:YES. I KNOW THE IDEA OF GOD IS A REAL THING.

Im wondering if there is actually a being that exists that is called God. (So in an attempt to appease you over-literal technicality-lovers, Ill re-phrase the question)

Is the Christian God an actually existent being, or is it merely an idea? A fiction?

Yes -- or no. Can't say without running into the paradox mentioned before. If I say no I'm a liar

; if I say yes I'm a fool

. I prefer being perceived as a fool.

JoshB · Post by **JoshB** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:33 pm

Bernee51, I really respect you, but your not helping! Gods qualities is a different argument! Or do I need to adjust my analyzing goggles?

And I don't mean this in a mean-spirited way, Bernee51.

Yes -- or no. Can't say without running into the paradox mentioned before. If I say no I'm a liar ; if I say yes I'm a fool . I prefer being perceived as a fool.

And if you choose not to take a side, your lost. I prefer to get lost. You never know what philosophies you'll find. Like an intellectual box of chocolates

The Mad Haranguer · Post by **The Mad Haranguer** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:44 pm

JoshB wrote:Bernee51, I really respect you, but your not helping! Gods qualities is a different argument! Or do I need to adjust my analyzing goggles?

And I don't mean this in a mean-spirited way, Bernee51.

Yes -- or no. Can't say without running into the paradox mentioned before. If I say no I'm a liar; if I say yes I'm a fool. I prefer being perceived as a fool.
And if you choose not to take a side, your lost. I prefer to get lost. You never know what philosophies you'll find. Like an intellectual box of chocolates

like I said: I prefer being perceived as a fool.

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:47 pm

JoshB wrote:Bernee51, I really respect you, but your not helping!
Gods qualities is a different argument!

A god is defined by the qualities attributed to it. You asked specifically about the christian version of the god concept...I answered based on your question.

My answer has not changed...the god of christianity is a fiction i.e. an imaginary thing, postulated for the purposes of explanation.

JoshB wrote: Or do I need to adjust my analyzing goggles?

I suggest (respectfully) you read your own question before accusing others of bein 'not helpful'

JoshB wrote:
And I don't mean this in a mean-spirited way, Bernee51.

Nor was it taken as such.

I have noted that you have put out quite a few 'hypotheticals'...what exactly do YOU believe?

JoshB · Post by **JoshB** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:52 am

Oh...Ok I see now Bernee51. I just looked at it a different way because I thought that if you were to post your opinion on Gods existence/non-existence, there would be arguments and logic and evidence to go along with it. Its just something I see in some of the higher rated commenters...but I see now.....I think I do INDEED need to adjust my analyzing goggles...

What do I believe? Well...Im atheistic...but I really try to keep an open mind about theological philosophies and arguments, because for all I truly know, God could exists. The main thing I try to do when discussing God is realize that I truly know nothing, and hope for enlightenment from the discussion with other participants who seem to have far greater knowledge than I.

When looking at it, my belief sounds more agnostic than anything...but when I say "Im atheist" Im actually saying "I know of no God to be real. So until he is proven real, I live without any God."

The Mad Haranguer · Post by **The Mad Haranguer** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:37 pm

JoshB wrote: When looking at it, my belief sounds more agnostic than anything...but when I say "Im atheist" Im actually saying "I know of no God to be real. So until he is proven real, I live without any God."

"Gods" come in many guises. Since proof is impossible and it is proof you demand, proof is your god.

One might as well be a permanent resident in Plato's cave.

JoshB · Post by **JoshB** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:17 pm

It was wrong of me to confine myself to proof, yes. Nigh irrefutable logic will do fine as well. (For example: the cosmological argument. Its still something I am wrestling with.)

Permanent resident of Platos Cave? I like the philosophy dis! Good job

But Im not sure Plato would have opposed wanting of evidence and clear concise logic...but it seems I am deemed a rather ignorant inquirer for this....enlighten me please