Faith-Based disaster solution fails

[DeBunkem]

Almost every state in the Bible belt...all of the old Confederacy are predominantly Fundamentalist Bible believers. they often say Jesus saved them when they survive a tornado or hurricane....who can question that? But what happens when they have no plausible deniability to the futility of prayer in stopping such as the mounting BP oil Chernobyl and ruin of the sacred treasure of the Gulf that they are supposed to be caretaking? Utter, complete failure.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/20/gu ... ns-prayer/

[East of Eden]

Well, I suspect you wont hear much of any "plausible deniability." Theres always way to justify how God answers and does not answer prayers. American Christianity is largely capitalist

'Capitalism' is Marxist terminology, I prefer the term free enterprise system, which isn't an 'ism' but a natural pattern of human behavior found worldwide that's been around as long as man in which people voluntarily exchange goods and services.

and self absorbed, which indicates it just functions out of what the framework of the nation allows it to. Not sure I understand why a legislative resolution would mean to the concept of prayer. Does a resolution make it more official? Is God saying "Oh no, guess I will have to answer this one cuz its on a legal document?" And its aimed at people of all religions. True fundamentalism does not embrace "others" as being legit, usually.

The church exists for the benefit of the 'others'. See the Great Commission.

[chris_brown207]

If He interceded whenever a 'wrong' choice were made, we wouldn't have free will. Sin had consequences, even for the innocent. From the point of veiw of eternity (where all will be make well), the present evil we endure is a blink of an eye.

So you saying that a hurricane that heading towards the Texas coast was a "wrong choice" made by humans? Or how about the earthquake in China? Or the Tornadoes that recently hit Ohio? Were those all "wrong choices" made by people?

The wrong choice was originally made my Adam and Eve which caused the fall, affecting nature.

That is an interesting assertion, and I can't wait to see your supporting evidence to back up that assertion.

See Genesis. You ARE on a religion forum.

The bible also speaks of a worldwide flood, and Noah repopulating the earth. The only problem is, there is no evidence of this ever occurring.

I wish I could buy at face value the stories written in a 2000 plus year old compilation book. If I did that I would also have to believe that Achilles was invulnerable (except for his heal) after being dipped in the river Styx.

I am taking a wild guess that is the only evidence you will be providing?

[East of Eden]

The bible also speaks of a worldwide flood, and Noah repopulating the earth. The only problem is, there is no evidence of this ever occurring.

Not really.


Evidence for a Global Flood

by Laurence D Smart B.Sc.Agr., Dip.Ed., Grad.Dip.Ed

Email: laurence@unmaskingevolution.com

Webpage: www.unmaskingevolution.com

[Free to print and distribute. Copy must be in full.]

In the past, scientists largely dismissed Noah's flood as a myth, or a local flood, as it was believed that there could not have been enough rainwater to cover the world as high as Mount Everest. Recent discoveries in plate tectonics and crustal physics have shown that a much flatter Earth could have easily been flooded, with the resultant volcanic and geologic activity altering the land surface. These details have demolished the main argument against a global flood, but the tag of "local flood" has remained because atheists do not want any evidence that supports the existence of an Almighty, Creator/God.


Here are over 100 evidences in support of a global flood, rather than a local one.

FROM LOGIC.........[12 reasons]

(1) For rain to fall for forty uninterrupted days on one localized area is currently close to impossible.

(2) A rainbow appeared for the first time after the flood, indicating a radical change in atmospheric conditions as a consequence of a cataclysmic event.

(3) The waters remained for over a year. This would not occur in a local flood.

(4) To be higher than the highest mountains, the flood could not have been local.

(5) To cover the mountains continually for 9 months, the flood could not have been local.

(6) The purpose of the flood was to destroy all human beings. This could only refer to a worldwide flood.

(7) If the flood was local, people living elsewhere in the world would have escaped.

(8) The enormous size of the ark (equivalent to the capacity of 500 railroad freight carriages) would hold much more than local species of animals.

(9) The purpose of the ark to "keep seed [species - NKJ] alive upon the face of the earth" is only rational if the flood was global.

(10) Noah and his family could have migrated to a locality away from the local area to be flooded. There would have been no need to spend 120 years building an ark.

(11) Many of the animals in the flooding area could have easily migrated to escape the deluge if the flood was local. There would have been no need to build an ark to provide them with a safe haven.

(12) If God made a promise based on a lie (ie. that the flood being local rather than global), then he can't be trusted to save us from our sins.



FROM SCIENCE....... [45 reasons]

(13) There is a worldwide tradition among natives of a global flood.

(14) According to current archaeological evidence, civilization appears to have originated in the Ararat/Babylon region.

(15) The genealogical records of many of the European kings can be traced back to Japheth, son of Noah.

(16) An analysis of population growth statistics confirms that there was zero population at the estimated time of the end of the flood. This indicates the global demise of humans by Noah's flood.

(17) Human palaeontological evidence exists even in the earliest geologic 'ages' (eg human footprints in Cambrian, Carboniferous, and Cretaceous rocks). If the layers of rock were laid down by a global flood and then interpreted as evolutionary long-ages, human remains and artefacts would appear to be in such positions.

(18) The most ancient human artefacts date to the post-flood era. This indicates that the earlier hardware could have been buried beyond reach by a huge flood.

(19) Calculations have shown that there is nearly the same amount of organic material present today, worldwide, as there would have been if all the fossils were still alive (Morris p:685). This indicates the demise of all living things in a single global event.

(20) Palaeontological evidence indicates that the early earth had a warm/humid climate. This is consistent with the destruction of the old atmosphere by the processes of a global flood as described in Genesis.

(21) The glacial period started very quickly. This would require a cataclysmic event such as a global flood to trigger such a rapid climatic change.

(22) Similar geologic formations exist in rocks of all ages (eg rifts, folds, faults, thrusts, etc.). These can just as easily be explained as being created in the same cataclysmic global event.

(23) Studies show that much of the world's folded beds of sediment have no compression fractures, indicating that they were contorted while they were still wet and soft. For this to occur on a global scale, and on sediment thousands of metres thick, it would have required a catastrophic global flood.

(24) Rocks of different geologic 'ages' have similar physical features indicating that they could have been created by a single worldwide event - such as a global flood.

(25) There is an absence of physical evidence that indicates a time change between rocks of 'successive ages'. Sedimentary rock layers worldwide appear to have been laid down very quickly, as by a global flood.

(26) Globally, there is an almost complete absence of any evidence of animal and plant root activity within the tiny layers of sediment. Slowly deposited layers should show this activity, flood deposits wouldn't.

(27) All types of rocks (eg limestone, shale, granite, etc) occur in all geologic 'ages'. This indicates a common formation on a global scale - the situation that would have been created by the mixing of sediment in a global flood.

(28) Many geological processes have a recent geological date. If the long-age evolutionary time scale is ignored, these processes would have occurred in the very recent past - ie. as a result of the flood cataclysm.

(29) Recent volcanic rocks are distributed widely. (see last point above)

(30) The uplift of the major mountain ranges are relatively young, based on evolutionary chronology. If the long-age evolutionary time scale is ignored, these processes would have occurred in the very recent past - ie as a result of the flood cataclysm.

(31) There is a lack of correlation between radiometric 'ages' and assumed palaeontological 'ages' (Morris p:686). A global flood could easily create an illusion of geologic 'ages'. The consequent conflict between dating methods confirms the illusion.

(32) Fossil 'graveyards' are found worldwide, and in rocks of all 'ages'. Only a catastrophic global flood could achieve this.

(33) The burial of fossil deposits worldwide had to have occurred in a catastrophic event. Only massive flooding could bury in such a fashion.

(34) Marine fossils can be found on the crests of mountains. Apart from mountain uplifting, this can also be explained as the marine animals being washed there and then buried. A global flood could do this.

(35) There is a worldwide distribution of most of the fossil types, indicating transportation on a global scale by a global flood.

(36) Fossils from different 'ages' are often found mixed. This indicates a huge mixing of animal bones that is not consistent with a local flood.

(37) Worldwide, fossils from different 'ages' are often found in the wrong order. This indicates a global mixing of fossils as a consequence of a global flood.

(38) Supposed evolutionary fossil sequences often parallel the ecological zonation that occurs today (Morris p:686). If a global flood mixed organisms from different areas, it would create the illusion of a fossil sequence over time.

(39) Dinosaurs and many other prehistoric creatures died out suddenly. A catastrophe such as a global flood could have produced this result.

(40) Polystrate fossils (viz. vertical fossil tree trunks) that are found worldwide indicate turbulent or rapid deposition. A global flood would be required to do this worldwide.

(41) Polystrate fossils also form when water-logged timber sinks in a large body of water. A year long global flood could produce worldwide polystrate fossils formed in this way.

(42) Animal tracks and other ephemeral markings (ripple-marks and raindrop imprints) have been preserved throughout the geological column. Rapid covering of these markings is required for this preservation worldwide - ie. by a global flood.

(43) Meteorites are basically absent from the geologic column. With the large number of meteorites hitting the earth each year, they should be very plentiful throughout the sedimentary rocks - unless much of the world's sedimentary rocks were laid down in one year.

(44) Sedimentary rocks contain fossil ripple-marks and raindrop imprints, but no hail imprints. A global flood (with associated rain), that was not caused by storms would not leave hail imprint marks.

(45) Some desert areas show evidence of 'recent' water bodies. Water from a recent global flood would remain in large pools (bodies of water) for some time before evaporating.

(46) There is evidence of a recent drastic rise in sea level. A global flood could easily have created this feature.

(47) Raised shorelines are found worldwide indicating a time when the world had a different sea level. A consistent interpretation of this is that a global flood altered the levels of the oceans and seas.

(48) Mountain-high water level marks found throughout the world are consistent with the recession of a global flood.

(49) River terraces are found worldwide. (Morris p:685)

(50) There is a universal occurrence of rivers in valleys too large for the present stream. Slow erosion over millions of years could not have created these valleys as the mountains would have eroded, keeping pace with the valley erosion. The drainage of global floodwaters from the land surface could easily create such wide valleys in a short period of time.

(51) Only modern sediments show any evidence of surface drainage systems. If the majority of the world's sedimentary rocks were laid down by a global flood there would not be any sign of drainage erosion except for the top layers eroded during the recession of the flood waters off the land.

(52) Hydrologic evidence points to the rapid deposition of sedimentary rock layers. Therefore, the thousand's of metres of sediment must have been deposited by a catastrophic global flood.

(53) Hydrologic evidence points to the world's sedimentary rocks being deposited in one continuous episode. All the layers could have been laid down by a single event, such as a global flood.

(54) Hydrologic experiments show that flowing sediment automatically settles out in distinct layers. Therefore, sedimentary rock layers can be just as easily explained as flood debris, as slow deposition.

(55) There is a worldwide occurrence of deep alluvial deposits and sedimentary rocks consistent with a huge global flood.

(56) There is a near-random deposition of formational sequences. (Morris p:685)

(57) Nowhere in the world is it possible to see the complete geologic column as a single structure. It is always found in bits and pieces, and mostly with pieces missing. Globally, a worldwide flood could create the illusion of a geologic column.

(58) The oldest organisms still alive on Earth today, the Californian Redwoods, Sequoias and Bristlecone Pines, are around 3,000-4,000 years old. Nothing is older that the date of Noah's flood.



FROM THE GENESIS NARRATIVE........ [47 reasons]

(59) The account in Genesis speaks of the flood being a universal event at least thirty times.

(60) God promised three times not to "smite [destroy - NKJ] every living thing" by a flood (Gen 8:21; 9:11; 9:15). Three occurrences in Scripture indicates absolute truth.

(61) Following the flood, Eden was no longer discussed geographically. If it was a local flood, its general whereabouts would still be known. The total obliteration of the whole earth's geography is therefore inferred - such as by a global flood.

(62) The "waters above the firmament [earth - NKJ]" would not have been localised into a small area. (Gen 1:7)

(63) No rain on the earth before the flood speaks of a worldwide condition. (Gen 2:5)

(64) The whole earth was watered by a mist, prior to the flood. (Gen 2:6)

(65) The dawn of civilization had a high civilization (Genesis chapter 4). This was wiped out and did not recover for a long time.

(66) The long life spans of the pre-diluvial people indicates an entirely different biosphere. (Gen 5:5; 5:8; 5:11; etc)

(67) The subsequent decline in life span following the flood indicates a radically different biosphere. (Gen 23:1; 25:7)

(68) God described the pre-flood people as universally evil (Gen 6:5). He never described the post-flood people as universally evil, so something universal (ie. worldwide) must have happened to weed it out.

(69) Mankind had multiplied all over the earth (Gen 6:1), so the flood had to be global to destroy them all.

(70) God was sorry that he created all living creatures, not just a localised population of animal creatures. (Gen 6:6-7)

(71) The whole earth was seen by God as corrupt. (Gen 6:11-12)

(72) God decided to destroy the whole earth. (Gen 6:13)

(73) Everything that had breath was to die. (Gen 6:17)

(74) The purpose of the ark was to keep two of every breathing animal (ie. worldwide species) alive. (Gen 6:19)

(75) Two of every kind of animal and bird came to Noah, not just local fauna. (Gen 6:20)

(76) Noah had to collect samples of all food eaten, not just local foodstuffs. (Gen 6:21)

(77) God wanted the ark "to keep seed [species - NKJ] alive upon the face of the earth". (Gen 7:3)

(78) God promised to destroy every living thing on the earth. (Gen 7:4)

(79) The Hebrew word for flood "mabbul" only refers to Noah's flood, so it must have been different to all other floods. (Gen 7:10)

(80) All the "fountains of the great deep" broke up in one incident. (Gen 7:11)

(81) The "fountains of the great deep" would not have affected a simple, local land-based flood. (Gen 7:11)

(82) The opening of the windows of heaven (if this refers to "the waters above the firmament") would had a global impact. (Gen 7:11)

(83) The double superlative, "all the high mountains under all the heavens" ["all the high hills under the whole heaven" - NKJ], indicates a global covering. (Gen 7:19)

(84) The highest mountains were covered by 15 cubits (6.75m) of water. (Gen 7:20)

(85) The Hebrew word, "kasah", used to mean that the mountains were covered has a meaning of "overwhelming". (Gen 7:20)

(86) Every human died on the whole earth. (Gen 7:21)

(87) All living things on dry land, with "nephesh" life in them, died. (Gen 7:22)

(88) Every living thing on the earth was destroyed. (Gen 7:23)

(89) The floodwater remained at maximum height for 5 months. (Gen 7:24)

(90) The "fountains of the deep" were open for 5 months. (Gen 8:2)

(91) The "windows of heaven" were open for 5 months. (Gen 8:2)

(92) The floodwaters took 5 months to drain off the land. (Gen 8:3)

(93) The ark floated above the mountains for 5 months. (Gen 8:4)

(94) The waters receded for 2.5 months before the mountain tops were visible. (Gen 8:5)

(95) The dove couldn't find solid ground until the water had receded for 4 months. (Gen 8:9)

(96) Plants did not grow for 9 months. (Gen 8:11)

(97) Noah, his family, and the animals were in the ark for over a year. (Gen 8:14)

(98) All current life came out of the ark. (Gen 8:19)

(99) God promised that he would not destroy all living things again in the same way. (Gen 8:21)

(100) The current seasonal conditions date from the end of the flood (Gen 8:22), indicating a radical change from the previous environment.

(101) God commanded Noah and his family to breed and fill the earth with people again. (Gen 9:1)

(102) A flood will not be used by God to destroy the earth again. (Gen 9:11)

(103) The earth was re-populated from Noah's family. (Gen 9:19)

(104) Everyone spoke the same language after the flood (Gen 11:1), indicating decent from a single ancestor.

(105) Everyone lived in the same area after the flood. (Gen 11:9)



FROM ELSEWHERE IN SCRIPTURE...... [9 reasons]

(106) The floodwaters overturned the earth. (Job 12:15)

(107) The floodwaters covered the whole earth. (Is 54:9)

(108) The flood took all people off the face of the earth. (Matt 24:39) - Jesus talking

(109) The flood destroyed all humans. (Luke 17:27) - Jesus talking

(110) The whole world was condemned. (Heb 11:7)

(111) God destroyed the old world. (II Peter 2:5)

(112) God flooded the whole world. (II Peter 2:5)

(113) The Greek word for flood, "kataklusmos", is only used to describe Noah's flood. This indicates that it was vastly different from any other flood. (II Peter 2:5)

(114) The old world perished by flood. (II Peter 3:6)





REFERENCES

H.M. Morris (1967) "The Genesis Record", Baker Book House: Grand Rapids (USA), p:683-686

L Vardiman (1996) "Sea-Floor Sediment and the Age of the Earth", Institute of Creation Research: El Cajon (USA), p:4-5

A McIntosh (1997) "Genesis for Today", DayOne Pub: Epsom (UK), p:166-170

B. Cooper (1995) "After The Flood - The early post-flood history of Europe traced back to Noah", New Wine Press: Chichester (UK)

J. Mackay (1992) "An Evening at Oxford: The evidence for Noah's Flood", Creation Research Centre: Capalba (Qld) - video tape

(see also - B.C. Nelson (1968) "The Deluge Story in Stone: A history of the flood theory in geology", Bethany Fellowship Inc. Pub: Minneapolis (Minnesota, USA)




Here's another question: How does a whale fossil get deposited vertically?

In 1976, workers from the Dicalite division of Grefco inc. found the remains of a baleen whale entombed vertically in a diatomaceous earth quarry.

"They've found fossils there before; in fact the machinery operators have learned a good deal about them and carefully annotate any they find with the name of the collector, the date, and the exact place found. Each discovery is turned over to Lawrence G. Barnes at the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County. The Whale, however, is one of the largest fossils ever collected anywhere... (It) is standing on end.. and is being exposed gradually as the diatomite is mined. Only the head and a small part of the body are visible as yet.
"The modern baleen whale is 80 to 90 feet long and has a head of similar size, indicating that the fossil may be close to 80 feet long. 46,47

[micatala]

The bible also speaks of a worldwide flood, and Noah repopulating the earth. The only problem is, there is no evidence of this ever occurring.

Not really.


Evidence for a Global Flood

by Laurence D Smart B.Sc.Agr., Dip.Ed., Grad.Dip.Ed

Email: laurence@unmaskingevolution.com

Webpage: www.unmaskingevolution.com

[Free to print and distribute. Copy must be in full.]

In the past, scientists largely dismissed Noah's flood as a myth, or a local flood, as it was believed that there could not have been enough rainwater to cover the world as high as Mount Everest. Recent discoveries in plate tectonics and crustal physics have shown that a much flatter Earth could have easily been flooded, with the resultant volcanic and geologic activity altering the land surface. These details have demolished the main argument against a global flood, but the tag of "local flood" has remained because atheists do not want any evidence that supports the existence of an Almighty, Creator/God.


Here are over 100 evidences in support of a global flood, rather than a local one.

FROM LOGIC.........[12 reasons]

(1) For rain to fall for forty uninterrupted days on one localized area is currently close to impossible.

(2) A rainbow appeared for the first time after the flood, indicating a radical change in atmospheric conditions as a consequence of a cataclysmic event.

(3) The waters remained for over a year. This would not occur in a local flood.

(4) To be higher than the highest mountains, the flood could not have been local.

(5) To cover the mountains continually for 9 months, the flood could not have been local.

(6) The purpose of the flood was to destroy all human beings. This could only refer to a worldwide flood.

(7) If the flood was local, people living elsewhere in the world would have escaped.

(8) The enormous size of the ark (equivalent to the capacity of 500 railroad freight carriages) would hold much more than local species of animals.

(9) The purpose of the ark to "keep seed [species - NKJ] alive upon the face of the earth" is only rational if the flood was global.

(10) Noah and his family could have migrated to a locality away from the local area to be flooded. There would have been no need to spend 120 years building an ark.

(11) Many of the animals in the flooding area could have easily migrated to escape the deluge if the flood was local. There would have been no need to build an ark to provide them with a safe haven.

(12) If God made a promise based on a lie (ie. that the flood being local rather than global), then he can't be trusted to save us from our sins.



FROM SCIENCE....... [45 reasons]

(13) There is a worldwide tradition among natives of a global flood.

(14) According to current archaeological evidence, civilization appears to have originated in the Ararat/Babylon region.

(15) The genealogical records of many of the European kings can be traced back to Japheth, son of Noah.

(16) An analysis of population growth statistics confirms that there was zero population at the estimated time of the end of the flood. This indicates the global demise of humans by Noah's flood.

(17) Human palaeontological evidence exists even in the earliest geologic 'ages' (eg human footprints in Cambrian, Carboniferous, and Cretaceous rocks). If the layers of rock were laid down by a global flood and then interpreted as evolutionary long-ages, human remains and artefacts would appear to be in such positions.

(18) The most ancient human artefacts date to the post-flood era. This indicates that the earlier hardware could have been buried beyond reach by a huge flood.

(19) Calculations have shown that there is nearly the same amount of organic material present today, worldwide, as there would have been if all the fossils were still alive (Morris p:685). This indicates the demise of all living things in a single global event.

(20) Palaeontological evidence indicates that the early earth had a warm/humid climate. This is consistent with the destruction of the old atmosphere by the processes of a global flood as described in Genesis.

(21) The glacial period started very quickly. This would require a cataclysmic event such as a global flood to trigger such a rapid climatic change.

(22) Similar geologic formations exist in rocks of all ages (eg rifts, folds, faults, thrusts, etc.). These can just as easily be explained as being created in the same cataclysmic global event.

(23) Studies show that much of the world's folded beds of sediment have no compression fractures, indicating that they were contorted while they were still wet and soft. For this to occur on a global scale, and on sediment thousands of metres thick, it would have required a catastrophic global flood.

(24) Rocks of different geologic 'ages' have similar physical features indicating that they could have been created by a single worldwide event - such as a global flood.

(25) There is an absence of physical evidence that indicates a time change between rocks of 'successive ages'. Sedimentary rock layers worldwide appear to have been laid down very quickly, as by a global flood.

(26) Globally, there is an almost complete absence of any evidence of animal and plant root activity within the tiny layers of sediment. Slowly deposited layers should show this activity, flood deposits wouldn't.

(27) All types of rocks (eg limestone, shale, granite, etc) occur in all geologic 'ages'. This indicates a common formation on a global scale - the situation that would have been created by the mixing of sediment in a global flood.

(28) Many geological processes have a recent geological date. If the long-age evolutionary time scale is ignored, these processes would have occurred in the very recent past - ie. as a result of the flood cataclysm.

(29) Recent volcanic rocks are distributed widely. (see last point above)

(30) The uplift of the major mountain ranges are relatively young, based on evolutionary chronology. If the long-age evolutionary time scale is ignored, these processes would have occurred in the very recent past - ie as a result of the flood cataclysm.

(31) There is a lack of correlation between radiometric 'ages' and assumed palaeontological 'ages' (Morris p:686). A global flood could easily create an illusion of geologic 'ages'. The consequent conflict between dating methods confirms the illusion.

(32) Fossil 'graveyards' are found worldwide, and in rocks of all 'ages'. Only a catastrophic global flood could achieve this.

(33) The burial of fossil deposits worldwide had to have occurred in a catastrophic event. Only massive flooding could bury in such a fashion.

(34) Marine fossils can be found on the crests of mountains. Apart from mountain uplifting, this can also be explained as the marine animals being washed there and then buried. A global flood could do this.

(35) There is a worldwide distribution of most of the fossil types, indicating transportation on a global scale by a global flood.

(36) Fossils from different 'ages' are often found mixed. This indicates a huge mixing of animal bones that is not consistent with a local flood.

(37) Worldwide, fossils from different 'ages' are often found in the wrong order. This indicates a global mixing of fossils as a consequence of a global flood.

(38) Supposed evolutionary fossil sequences often parallel the ecological zonation that occurs today (Morris p:686). If a global flood mixed organisms from different areas, it would create the illusion of a fossil sequence over time.

(39) Dinosaurs and many other prehistoric creatures died out suddenly. A catastrophe such as a global flood could have produced this result.

(40) Polystrate fossils (viz. vertical fossil tree trunks) that are found worldwide indicate turbulent or rapid deposition. A global flood would be required to do this worldwide.

(41) Polystrate fossils also form when water-logged timber sinks in a large body of water. A year long global flood could produce worldwide polystrate fossils formed in this way.

(42) Animal tracks and other ephemeral markings (ripple-marks and raindrop imprints) have been preserved throughout the geological column. Rapid covering of these markings is required for this preservation worldwide - ie. by a global flood.

(43) Meteorites are basically absent from the geologic column. With the large number of meteorites hitting the earth each year, they should be very plentiful throughout the sedimentary rocks - unless much of the world's sedimentary rocks were laid down in one year.

(44) Sedimentary rocks contain fossil ripple-marks and raindrop imprints, but no hail imprints. A global flood (with associated rain), that was not caused by storms would not leave hail imprint marks.

(45) Some desert areas show evidence of 'recent' water bodies. Water from a recent global flood would remain in large pools (bodies of water) for some time before evaporating.

(46) There is evidence of a recent drastic rise in sea level. A global flood could easily have created this feature.

(47) Raised shorelines are found worldwide indicating a time when the world had a different sea level. A consistent interpretation of this is that a global flood altered the levels of the oceans and seas.

(48) Mountain-high water level marks found throughout the world are consistent with the recession of a global flood.

(49) River terraces are found worldwide. (Morris p:685)

(50) There is a universal occurrence of rivers in valleys too large for the present stream. Slow erosion over millions of years could not have created these valleys as the mountains would have eroded, keeping pace with the valley erosion. The drainage of global floodwaters from the land surface could easily create such wide valleys in a short period of time.

(51) Only modern sediments show any evidence of surface drainage systems. If the majority of the world's sedimentary rocks were laid down by a global flood there would not be any sign of drainage erosion except for the top layers eroded during the recession of the flood waters off the land.

(52) Hydrologic evidence points to the rapid deposition of sedimentary rock layers. Therefore, the thousand's of metres of sediment must have been deposited by a catastrophic global flood.

(53) Hydrologic evidence points to the world's sedimentary rocks being deposited in one continuous episode. All the layers could have been laid down by a single event, such as a global flood.

(54) Hydrologic experiments show that flowing sediment automatically settles out in distinct layers. Therefore, sedimentary rock layers can be just as easily explained as flood debris, as slow deposition.

(55) There is a worldwide occurrence of deep alluvial deposits and sedimentary rocks consistent with a huge global flood.

(56) There is a near-random deposition of formational sequences. (Morris p:685)

(57) Nowhere in the world is it possible to see the complete geologic column as a single structure. It is always found in bits and pieces, and mostly with pieces missing. Globally, a worldwide flood could create the illusion of a geologic column.

(58) The oldest organisms still alive on Earth today, the Californian Redwoods, Sequoias and Bristlecone Pines, are around 3,000-4,000 years old. Nothing is older that the date of Noah's flood.



FROM THE GENESIS NARRATIVE........ [47 reasons]

(59) The account in Genesis speaks of the flood being a universal event at least thirty times.

(60) God promised three times not to "smite [destroy - NKJ] every living thing" by a flood (Gen 8:21; 9:11; 9:15). Three occurrences in Scripture indicates absolute truth.

(61) Following the flood, Eden was no longer discussed geographically. If it was a local flood, its general whereabouts would still be known. The total obliteration of the whole earth's geography is therefore inferred - such as by a global flood.

(62) The "waters above the firmament [earth - NKJ]" would not have been localised into a small area. (Gen 1:7)

(63) No rain on the earth before the flood speaks of a worldwide condition. (Gen 2:5)

(64) The whole earth was watered by a mist, prior to the flood. (Gen 2:6)

(65) The dawn of civilization had a high civilization (Genesis chapter 4). This was wiped out and did not recover for a long time.

(66) The long life spans of the pre-diluvial people indicates an entirely different biosphere. (Gen 5:5; 5:8; 5:11; etc)

(67) The subsequent decline in life span following the flood indicates a radically different biosphere. (Gen 23:1; 25:7)

(68) God described the pre-flood people as universally evil (Gen 6:5). He never described the post-flood people as universally evil, so something universal (ie. worldwide) must have happened to weed it out.

(69) Mankind had multiplied all over the earth (Gen 6:1), so the flood had to be global to destroy them all.

(70) God was sorry that he created all living creatures, not just a localised population of animal creatures. (Gen 6:6-7)

(71) The whole earth was seen by God as corrupt. (Gen 6:11-12)

(72) God decided to destroy the whole earth. (Gen 6:13)

(73) Everything that had breath was to die. (Gen 6:17)

(74) The purpose of the ark was to keep two of every breathing animal (ie. worldwide species) alive. (Gen 6:19)

(75) Two of every kind of animal and bird came to Noah, not just local fauna. (Gen 6:20)

(76) Noah had to collect samples of all food eaten, not just local foodstuffs. (Gen 6:21)

(77) God wanted the ark "to keep seed [species - NKJ] alive upon the face of the earth". (Gen 7:3)

(78) God promised to destroy every living thing on the earth. (Gen 7:4)

(79) The Hebrew word for flood "mabbul" only refers to Noah's flood, so it must have been different to all other floods. (Gen 7:10)

(80) All the "fountains of the great deep" broke up in one incident. (Gen 7:11)

(81) The "fountains of the great deep" would not have affected a simple, local land-based flood. (Gen 7:11)

(82) The opening of the windows of heaven (if this refers to "the waters above the firmament") would had a global impact. (Gen 7:11)

(83) The double superlative, "all the high mountains under all the heavens" ["all the high hills under the whole heaven" - NKJ], indicates a global covering. (Gen 7:19)

(84) The highest mountains were covered by 15 cubits (6.75m) of water. (Gen 7:20)

(85) The Hebrew word, "kasah", used to mean that the mountains were covered has a meaning of "overwhelming". (Gen 7:20)

(86) Every human died on the whole earth. (Gen 7:21)

(87) All living things on dry land, with "nephesh" life in them, died. (Gen 7:22)

(88) Every living thing on the earth was destroyed. (Gen 7:23)

(89) The floodwater remained at maximum height for 5 months. (Gen 7:24)

(90) The "fountains of the deep" were open for 5 months. (Gen 8:2)

(91) The "windows of heaven" were open for 5 months. (Gen 8:2)

(92) The floodwaters took 5 months to drain off the land. (Gen 8:3)

(93) The ark floated above the mountains for 5 months. (Gen 8:4)

(94) The waters receded for 2.5 months before the mountain tops were visible. (Gen 8:5)

(95) The dove couldn't find solid ground until the water had receded for 4 months. (Gen 8:9)

(96) Plants did not grow for 9 months. (Gen 8:11)

(97) Noah, his family, and the animals were in the ark for over a year. (Gen 8:14)

(98) All current life came out of the ark. (Gen 8:19)

(99) God promised that he would not destroy all living things again in the same way. (Gen 8:21)

(100) The current seasonal conditions date from the end of the flood (Gen 8:22), indicating a radical change from the previous environment.

(101) God commanded Noah and his family to breed and fill the earth with people again. (Gen 9:1)

(102) A flood will not be used by God to destroy the earth again. (Gen 9:11)

(103) The earth was re-populated from Noah's family. (Gen 9:19)

(104) Everyone spoke the same language after the flood (Gen 11:1), indicating decent from a single ancestor.

(105) Everyone lived in the same area after the flood. (Gen 11:9)



FROM ELSEWHERE IN SCRIPTURE...... [9 reasons]

(106) The floodwaters overturned the earth. (Job 12:15)

(107) The floodwaters covered the whole earth. (Is 54:9)

(108) The flood took all people off the face of the earth. (Matt 24:39) - Jesus talking

(109) The flood destroyed all humans. (Luke 17:27) - Jesus talking

(110) The whole world was condemned. (Heb 11:7)

(111) God destroyed the old world. (II Peter 2:5)

(112) God flooded the whole world. (II Peter 2:5)

(113) The Greek word for flood, "kataklusmos", is only used to describe Noah's flood. This indicates that it was vastly different from any other flood. (II Peter 2:5)

(114) The old world perished by flood. (II Peter 3:6)





REFERENCES

H.M. Morris (1967) "The Genesis Record", Baker Book House: Grand Rapids (USA), p:683-686

L Vardiman (1996) "Sea-Floor Sediment and the Age of the Earth", Institute of Creation Research: El Cajon (USA), p:4-5

A McIntosh (1997) "Genesis for Today", DayOne Pub: Epsom (UK), p:166-170

B. Cooper (1995) "After The Flood - The early post-flood history of Europe traced back to Noah", New Wine Press: Chichester (UK)

J. Mackay (1992) "An Evening at Oxford: The evidence for Noah's Flood", Creation Research Centre: Capalba (Qld) - video tape

(see also - B.C. Nelson (1968) "The Deluge Story in Stone: A history of the flood theory in geology", Bethany Fellowship Inc. Pub: Minneapolis (Minnesota, USA)




Here's another question: How does a whale fossil get deposited vertically?

In 1976, workers from the Dicalite division of Grefco inc. found the remains of a baleen whale entombed vertically in a diatomaceous earth quarry.

"They've found fossils there before; in fact the machinery operators have learned a good deal about them and carefully annotate any they find with the name of the collector, the date, and the exact place found. Each discovery is turned over to Lawrence G. Barnes at the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County. The Whale, however, is one of the largest fossils ever collected anywhere... (It) is standing on end.. and is being exposed gradually as the diatomite is mined. Only the head and a small part of the body are visible as yet.
"The modern baleen whale is 80 to 90 feet long and has a head of similar size, indicating that the fossil may be close to 80 feet long. 46,47

This is really off topic, but as we have several flood threads going, I will either copy this into one of those or start a new one.

[DeBunkem]

You have a very warped view of prayer if you think God always answers it the way we want. Perhaps God is using this disaster in His mercy to bring us back to Him. The OT nation of Israel went through constant cycles of apostasy which God corrected by arranging things like natural disasters, draught, economic problems, wars that didn't go so well. Gee, those things sound familiar. I'd say the only 'fail' part is in our not heeding His warning.

Hmmm. If God is has caused the criminal shortsightedness of BP to ruin the Bible Belt's exclusive southern coastline, what might he be afflicting them for as well as ignoring their prayers? My guess would be right-wing ignorance, racism, sanctimoniousness and hypocrisy and stealing the 2000 election. Oh, and really gross obesity rates (gluttony).

[chris_brown207]

The bible also speaks of a worldwide flood, and Noah repopulating the earth. The only problem is, there is no evidence of this ever occurring.

Not really.


Evidence for a Global Flood

by Laurence D Smart B.Sc.Agr., Dip.Ed., Grad.Dip.Ed

Email: laurence@unmaskingevolution.com

Webpage: www.unmaskingevolution.com

[Free to print and distribute. Copy must be in full.]

In the past, scientists largely dismissed Noah's flood as a myth, or a local flood, as it was believed that there could not have been enough rainwater to cover the world as high as Mount Everest. Recent discoveries in plate tectonics and crustal physics have shown that a much flatter Earth could have easily been flooded, with the resultant volcanic and geologic activity altering the land surface. These details have demolished the main argument against a global flood, but the tag of "local flood" has remained because atheists do not want any evidence that supports the existence of an Almighty, Creator/God.

Maybe you could start a new thread in science vs religion section, because what you have posed is interesting to discuss.

What is interesting is that:
1. This would violate the literal translation of the bible, which has the world approximately 6000 years old. The type of plate tectonics to provide for a "flatter earth" means this event occurred hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of years ago.

2. If this event did occur when such plate tectonics were in effect, humans as a species would not exist - as the earliest evidence of any human was from approximately 10,000 years ago.

I would be happy to discuss the other points, line by line, however we should probably do so in the correct forum.

[McCulloch]

Evidence for a Global Flood

by Laurence D Smart B.Sc.Agr., Dip.Ed., Grad.Dip.Ed

These claims are all well refuted elsewhere. But since this is a Politics and Religion forum, perhaps we should focus on the political end of this.

Why the heck are people still being deluded by such claptrap? How is it that the clear evidence fails to convince so many? And, if the God of the Bible belt is real, why is it that they get more than their share of natural disasters, aka acts of God?

[DeBunkem]

Evidence for a Global Flood

by Laurence D Smart B.Sc.Agr., Dip.Ed., Grad.Dip.Ed

These claims are all well refuted elsewhere. But since this is a Politics and Religion forum, perhaps we should focus on the political end of this.

Why the heck are people still being deluded by such claptrap? How is it that the clear evidence fails to convince so many? And, if the God of the Bible belt is real, why is it that they get more than their share of natural disasters, aka acts of God?

"Most of the greatest evils that man has inflicted
upon man have come through people feeling quite
certain about something which, in fact, was false." :
Bertrand Russell

The history of the race, and each individual's
experience, are thick with evidence that a truth is not hard to
kill and that a lie told well is immortal.
---- Mark Twain

The continued utterance of a lie does not make it
true, but it does convince many that it is,
particularly if you can squelch most efforts to expose
the lie: Shapley R. Hunter

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If
we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject
any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer
interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has
captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge
-- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous:
Carl Sagan