Pre- Election or free will.

[rdventen]

:harass: Genesis 3 (New King James Version)

Genesis 3
The Temptation and Fall of Man

1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?�
2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’�
4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.�
6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.
8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
9 Then the LORD God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?�
10 So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.�
11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?�
12 Then the man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate.�
13 And the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?�
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.�
14 So the LORD God said to the serpent:
“ Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.�
16 To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.�
17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
“ Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.

18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.

19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.�
20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
21 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.
22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever�— 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

In view of the above sricptures free will is evident. Because if we do not have free will then life is no more then a joke on mankind.

[Skyangel]

Two points.

Show me where 'Jesus was born to a woman that was in the lineage of David'.

2) Being of the Seed of david in the Jewish religion would have been from an unbroken male lineage. The 'bloodlines' and household pass directly though father to son.

Mary was of the tribe of Judah and the lineage of David (Psalm 132:11; Luke 1:32). She was connected by marriage with Elisabeth, who was of the lineage of Aaron (Luke 1:36).

Mary was a direct descendant of King David which gave Jesus the right to ascend the Jewish throne, both through Mary and through adoption by his foster father, Joseph. Mary’s genealogy is found in Luke 3:23-38

Dr. Henry Morris explains the genealogy in Luke:

“Joseph was clearly the son of Jacob (Matthew 1:16, so this verse [Luke 3:23 - says “son of Heli�] should be understood to mean “son-in-law of Heli.� Thus, the genealogy of Christ in Luke is actually the genealogy of Mary, while Matthew gives that of Joseph. Actually, the word “son� is not in the original, so it would be legitimate to supply either “son� or “son-in-law� in this context. Since Matthew and Luke clearly record much common material, it is certain that neither one could unknowingly incorporate such a flagrant apparent mistake as the wrong genealogy in his record. As it is, however, the two genealogies show that both parents were descendants of David—Joseph through Solomon (Matthew 1:7-15), thus inheriting the legal right to the throne of David, and Mary through Nathan (Luke 3:23-31), her line thus carrying the seed of David, since Solomon’s line had been refused the throne because of Jechoniah’s sin�

[Dr. Henry M. Morris, The Defender’s Study Bible, note for Luke 3:23 (Iowa Falls, Iowa: World Publishing, Inc., 1995).].

[rdventen]

(No. Because you have to have a man and a woman to be born a human, Jesus was a man but not by a man, but by God. There was no man Involved in His birth, He was 100% man and 100% God. It is you who is the one dancing not me I did answer you, you just don't like the answer.)

So you are implying Jesus was not human even though He was a man ? How can anyone be 100% man when he is not conceived and born like a normal human or any other man? That is not 100% man at all. 100% man is a man who is conceived and born in any normal way. How can Jesus also be 100% God when He Himself spoke to His Father. Do you suggest He was talking to Himself?(New King James Version
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word,( Jesus is the word ) and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ( Jesus is God ) 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. ( All things were made by Him Jesus because He is God ) 4 In Him was life,( He Jesus gives life because He is God ) and the life was the light of men. ( Jesus is the only way to the Father. ) 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.
John’s Witness: The True Light

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, ( Jesus is that light ) that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, ( John was not that light ) but was sent to bear witness of that Light. ( Jesus ) 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, ( Jesus ) and the world was made through Him, ( Jesus ) and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own,[c] and His own[d] did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: ( Jesus ) 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The Word Becomes Flesh

14 And the Word became flesh ( Jesus ) and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. ( Jesus did not have a human father, but He was a man also )
15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’�
16 And[e] of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,[f] who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. ( We come to know God the Father through His Son Jesus )


How can a person believe in the Son of God and also not place any trust in the son of man ?

( Human man, born by a man and a woman, just like you and me. )

The bible makes no such distinction to my knowledge. If you think it does, please show me where it does. Son of man is son of man and Jesus often referred to himself as the son of man. He cannot be God if He is also the son of man according to
Num 23:19 God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent:

See that? God is not a man and neither the son of man. ( Read what is in red, and if you can still say that Jesus is not 100% man and 100% God then so be it. )

( Good and Evil are not something that can be created, but you can only take action on, in other words you can do good or you can do evil if you murder that is evil, if you dont it is good. )

If anyone does evil, are they not creating evil by their actions? How do you perceive anyone doing evil without creating evil?
Since Isaiah 45:7 specifically tells us God creates evil, are you interpreting that as God does evil things?
The Hebrew word which is used is " bara" which means to create, shape, form, fashion something. The same word in used in the creation of heaven and earth ( Gen 1:1) . So why do you think it is not referring to creating something or bringing it into existence?
Isaiah tells us God created evil and you blatantly say God did not create evil so you are calling the Isaiah a liar, and basically saying scripture is lying, are you not?

( I have no problem with that, but words can and are used in many ways, if I say it is raining cats and dogs it does not mean that it is. The same gos for darkness it can be used to to mean evil or light used to mean good, as in the case of God for God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. )

I understand perfectly that darkness is metaphoric of evil. I understand perfectly that there is no darkness in light but I also understand that light does indeed create darkness. We can literally observe that process in nature itself and in the shadows created by the light.

[Skyangel]

(New King James Version
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word,( Jesus is the word ) and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ( Jesus is God ) 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. ( All things were made by Him Jesus because He is God ) 4 In Him was life,( He Jesus gives life because He is God ) and the life was the light of men. ( Jesus is the only way to the Father. ) 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.
John’s Witness: The True Light

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, ( Jesus is that light ) that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, ( John was not that light ) but was sent to bear witness of that Light. ( Jesus ) 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, ( Jesus ) and the world was made through Him, ( Jesus ) and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own,[c] and His own[d] did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: ( Jesus ) 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The Word Becomes Flesh

14 And the Word became flesh ( Jesus ) and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. ( Jesus did not have a human father, but He was a man also )
15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’�
16 And[e] of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,[f] who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. ( We come to know God the Father through His Son Jesus )



( Read what is in red, and if you can still say that Jesus is not 100% man and 100% God then so be it. )

I understand perfectly that John was referring to Jesus as the WORD made flesh. and that Word made flesh is God.
However John and you and I and all other people are also the WORD made flesh from the very beginning since God said "Let us create man ( mankind) in OUR image." Are you a man who is flesh or not? Did God also create you in His image or did you evolve from some ape and were not born of any other man who was also the word made flesh? Are you 100% man as well as 100% God or are you only half a man and half God or is God not in you in the same way God was in Jesus at all?

I am IN HIM and He is in me in exactly the same way Jesus was and is and always will be in the Father and the Father in Him. Does that make me Jesus or God or both, in your opinion or does that make me as deluded and mad as those Pharisees thought Jesus was deluded and mad? Who do you say I am?

I am that I am.

Jhn 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Jhn 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare [it]: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

[Goat]

<snipping for cutting length >

I understand perfectly that John was referring to Jesus as the WORD made flesh. and that Word made flesh is God.
However John and you and I and all other people are also the WORD made flesh from the very beginning since God said "Let us create man ( mankind) in OUR image." Are you a man who is flesh or not? Did God also create you in His image or did you evolve from some ape and were not born of any other man who was also the word made flesh? Are you 100% man as well as 100% God or are you only half a man and half God or is God not in you in the same way God was in Jesus at all?

Is the WORD god?? If you look at the how "LOGOS' was used by the Gnostics, and by Philo of Alexander in the mid first to early second, "LOGOS" was defined as the 'WISDOM OF GOD', not god itself. Philo also talked about the 'Wisdom of God' being s mediator between God and Mortal man. It appears to me that the way that the various authors of the Gospel of John used 'LOGOS' is very much along the way of Philo's philosophy, since in The GOJ, Jesus is described as 'the one who is sent'

[Skyangel]

Is the WORD god?? If you look at the how "LOGOS' was used by the Gnostics, and by Philo of Alexander in the mid first to early second, "LOGOS" was defined as the 'WISDOM OF GOD', not god itself. Philo also talked about the 'Wisdom of God' being s mediator between God and Mortal man. It appears to me that the way that the various authors of the Gospel of John used 'LOGOS' is very much along the way of Philo's philosophy, since in The GOJ, Jesus is described as 'the one who is sent'

Both the Greek words "Logos" and "Rhema" have been translated from the Hebrew word "Dabar" and get translated back to "Dabar"
The only difference between the meanings of Rhema and Logos to my knowledge and according to the studies I have done, is that Rhema is referring mainly to the verbally spoken word where Logos is also referring to the unspoken thinking procesess within the mind.

Please check the definition yourself to verify it.

The Hebrew word "dabar"
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 1697&t=KJV

The Greek words , "rhema" and "logos"
Rhema = http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 4487&t=KJV

Logos = http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 3056&t=KJV

They both refer to verbal speech. The only difference between them is "Logos" is about conveying an idea or principle, instruction, commandment and can be used in relation to silent thinking processes without actual verbal speech patterns.

The religious idea that the Greek word 'rhema' has a totally different meaning to that of 'logos.' is a hoax and not true at all. There is a claim that rhema does not refer to the Bible ( written word) like logos does, but to a fresh word direct from the mouth of God. Some people teach that "rhema" is referring to a revelation and logos is referring only to the written word.
We need to Remember when you translate them back to Hebrew they both get translated as "dabar" and there is no difference in meaning. Also in English they are both translated as "word" regardless of whether that word is spoken or written or merely thought.

The words Rhema and Logos are synonyms and can be used interchangably in the same way we might use the words, word, speech, saying, commandment, teaching, as referring to the same concept.

In conclusion the words Rhema, Logos, Dabar, Word, and any other variation of their translations are all referring to the teachings or principles which were taught by the believers who taught them, regardless of whether they are spoken, written or merely an attitude of the mind which affects the morals and principles one adopts in his life.

[rdventen]

Is the WORD god?? If you look at the how "LOGOS' was used by the Gnostics, and by Philo of Alexander in the mid first to early second, "LOGOS" was defined as the 'WISDOM OF GOD', not god itself. Philo also talked about the 'Wisdom of God' being s mediator between God and Mortal man. It appears to me that the way that the various authors of the Gospel of John used 'LOGOS' is very much along the way of Philo's philosophy, since in The GOJ, Jesus is described as 'the one who is sent'

Both the Greek words "Logos" and "Rhema" have been translated from the Hebrew word "Dabar" and get translated back to "Dabar"
The only difference between the meanings of Rhema and Logos to my knowledge and according to the studies I have done, is that Rhema is referring mainly to the verbally spoken word where Logos is also referring to the unspoken thinking procesess within the mind.

Please check the definition yourself to verify it.

The Hebrew word "dabar"
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 1697&t=KJV

The Greek words , "rhema" and "logos"
Rhema = http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 4487&t=KJV

Logos = http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 3056&t=KJV

They both refer to verbal speech. The only difference between them is "Logos" is about conveying an idea or principle, instruction, commandment and can be used in relation to silent thinking processes without actual verbal speech patterns.

The religious idea that the Greek word 'rhema' has a totally different meaning to that of 'logos.' is a hoax and not true at all. There is a claim that rhema does not refer to the Bible ( written word) like logos does, but to a fresh word direct from the mouth of God. Some people teach that "rhema" is referring to a revelation and logos is referring only to the written word.
We need to Remember when you translate them back to Hebrew they both get translated as "dabar" and there is no difference in meaning. Also in English they are both translated as "word" regardless of whether that word is spoken or written or merely thought.

The words Rhema and Logos are synonyms and can be used interchangably in the same way we might use the words, word, speech, saying, commandment, teaching, as referring to the same concept.

In conclusion the words Rhema, Logos, Dabar, Word, and any other variation of their translations are all referring to the teachings or principles which were taught by the believers who taught them, regardless of whether they are spoken, written or merely an attitude of the mind which affects the morals and principles one adopts in his life.

Bible Authority: How do we know that the Bible is the Word of God?
CP1012

THE AUTHORITY OF THE BIBLE- Introduction
If I’ve heard it once I’ve probably heard it a 1000 times! Some Christian comes up to me and says, “The Bible says!!…. So what?!… Who says what the Bible says is true in the first place?�



THE AUTHORITY OF THE BIBLE- Because Jesus says so
First, we know that the Bible is God’s Word because no less an authority than Jesus Christ Himself says it is. Sounds like circular reasoning, right?



THE AUTHORITY OF THE BIBLE- Historical Reliability
Not so fast, the New Testament documents are actually very reliable historically. The authors of the New Testament were either eyewitnesses to the life of Christ, or were close associates of eyewitnesses. And so they give a clear testimony as to the deity of Jesus Christ. Jesus not only claimed to be God, but He proved His claim through [1] the fulfillment of messianic prophecy, [2] the performance of miracles, and ultimately and most succinctly through His historically verifiable resurrection from the dead.



THE AUTHORITY OF THE BIBLE- Jesus' Authority
If you can prove that Jesus is God in human flesh, whatever He says is truth. And what does Jesus say concerning the bible? He says that it is the very Word of God! As to the Old Testament, Jesus said that the “Scriptures cannot be broken,� and therefore they are sufficient, authoritative, and inspired. In fact, he went on to promise that the Bible will guide not only his apostles, but all of us in the truth — the truth he was talking about is not subjective truth, but objective verifiable truth.



THE AUTHORITY OF THE BIBLE- The Living Word
Now as I’ve shown inductively, Jesus Christ Himself, God incarnate, testifies not only to Scripture’s authority (Matt. 22:43), but to its reliability (Matt. 26:54), to its sufficiency (Luke 16:31), and finally to its finality (Matt. 4:4,7,10). Bottom line: The living Word (Jesus) bears testimony to the Written Word (the Bible).



THE AUTHORITY OF THE BIBLE- Conclusion
The truth is, demonstrating that the Bible is the Word of God is not all that difficult. Of course you have to be dealing with someone who is an open minded person. If someone has already made up his mind and doesn’t want to be confused with the facts, you’re never going to be able to talk him into the kingdom. Only the Holy Spirit can truly open the heart.



On the authority of the Word of God, that’s the CRI Perspective. I’m Hank Hanegraaff.

[Skyangel]

Bible Authority: How do we know that the Bible is the Word of God?
CP1012

THE AUTHORITY OF THE BIBLE- Introduction
If I’ve heard it once I’ve probably heard it a 1000 times! Some Christian comes up to me and says, “The Bible says!!…. So what?!… Who says what the Bible says is true in the first place?�

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... hp?t=11496
In this subforum, the Bible is considered an authoritative source. Challenges to the authority of the Bible are not allowed here.

If you wish to challenge the authority of the bible, please do so on a subforum which allows it.

[Skyangel]

Back to the original topic. Words I have quoted from others are in blue.

rdventen said "....free will is evident. Because if we do not have free will then life is no more then a joke on mankind."
His reasoning appears to be that Adam and Eve had a choice to eat or not to eat of the "tree"
We all have choices in life and can easily decide to do something or not do the same thing.

That sounds logical enough.

Benoni says "There was no freewill in the garden; Adam had no choice. Freewill toward salvation is a non scriptural term."
His reasoning is that the bible does not say anything about free will.
He also reasons that none of us had a choice to be born or where we were born or who our parents were.. etc. ( Posts 2. 4,)

That seems logical enough and none of us can deny that fact. Adam did not ask to be born. He was created by God. However, it does not change the fact that we do still have the ability to make choices in life.

Benoni also backs up his logic with scripture
(NIRV) Romans 8: 20 The created world was bound to fail. But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it. God planned to set the created world free. He didn't want it to rot away completely. Instead, he wanted it to have the same glorious freedom that his children have (Post 5)

Justifyothers rightly asks the question
Why would God (Who we both believe in as our creator) set up His own creation to fail? Instead of creating it free to begin with? Dumb question....but, would YOU do that? Seems silly, right? Why then, do we think this silly behavior is OK for God?
He is our leader and teacher - what do these words mean to us?"

I don't think it is a dumb question at all but a very valid one which no one seems to have answered yet.

bernee51 said "Unless you are aware of them, and have the ability/will to take note of them, you have no control over the influences within your life which cause you to take a particular piece of pie. " (Post 8 )

There lies the secret of whether we can be in control of our choices or not. It is in the words "Unless you are aware of them"
The fact is that IF we are indeed aware of the influences within our own lives, we do have some measure of control over them in as much as we can chose to not allow something within us to influence us or allow it to influence our decisions and choices.

Does scripture teach us we have no control over the influences in our lives?

Here are two scriptures which to seem to teach that very thing.

2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

The context is talking about those who walk after the flesh. They cannot cease from sin.
The word "cannot" implies being incapable of ceasing from sin, does it not?

If someone is incapable of stopping themselves from doing something, can they be blamed for doing what they do?
That would be like saying I am incapable of stopping myself from breathing. I breathe automatically. It is an automatic response of my flesh. I am incapable of stopping my heart from beating. It is an automatic response of the body. Our bodies do many things which we are incapable of controlling unless we wish to kill ourselves to stop our heart from beating and stop ourselves from breathing.
The only way in that case to stop our bodies from doing what they do automatically is to chose to die, is it not?
How many chose to die, commit suicide, just to stop themselves from doing what they hate doing? How many commit suicide because they hate their own life and don't want to live any more? Do they then become wise and capable of doing what they were incapable of doing when they were alive?

On the other hand we have scripture also telling us that some are incapable of sinning.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This is talking about those who walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh in the same way Jesus walked in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

On one hand we have an example of mankind who is incapable of ceasing from sin and on the other hand we have an example of mankind who is incapable of sinning.
Are these two different people or two different aspects of people? Are they two aspects of the same person, namely a good side and a bad side which is within our own mind? That tree of knowledge of good and evil is inside our heart and mind. knowledge is in the mind. It is not a literal tree.
We cannot "eat" of good without dying to the evil. We cannot "eat" of evil without dying to the good. One way or other we are destined to die to the good or to the evil. The choice is not to live or die but rather in what way we wish to live and in what way we wish to die. We can chose to live in life or chose to live in death. Death is part of life and cannot be avoided. Those who are dead know nothing. Those who are alive know they will die and they die daily. I die daily.( 1 Cor 15:31)

Jesus also dies daily when people crucify Him afresh by walking away from the Truth. (Heb 6:6)

To live in the Spirit we must die to the flesh. To bear eternal fruit we must die to the flesh.

John 12:24-25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

You have a choice to live or die. Ultimately those who chose to live know they will die. The dead know nothing.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

To answer the question, Why would God (Who we both believe in as our creator) set up His own creation to fail? Instead of creating it free to begin with? Dumb question....but, would YOU do that? Seems silly, right? Why then, do we think this silly behavior is OK for God?
He is our leader and teacher - what do these words mean to us?"

I say God created evil in order to give us the freedom of choice to do evil, and live in evil, so we would not be robots who have no choice but to do good. If you had no choice but to do good you would be a robotic slave to righteousness. God does not want slaves. He wants sons who choose to love Him not robots who are programmed to love Him.

Life and death is a choice.

Deut 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Those who chose life, die to death. They overcome sin and death through death in the same way Jesus overcame death.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;