Most of the differences in scriptural interpretation among Christians is the result of an incomplete knowledge of the plan and purpose of God. Much of what is taught and believed in Christian circles today is derived from the wrong source - Bible study! That statement may astound you, and you may demand to know why I say that the great mass of confusion in Bible teaching stems from the wrong source - Bible study.
What's wrong with Bible study? Isn't this very article an effort in Bible study? Ah, there is nothing whatever wrong with Bible study IF WE HAVE THE RIGHT TEACHER TEACHING US. Christians gather together in Bible schools, Bible study groups, Sunday schools, etc., to study the Word of God, but the problem with the vast majority of such groups is that they have the wrong teacher - the human, natural, carnal mind! They try to decipher the deep and wondrous and spiritual mysteries of the Word of God with the human intellect, instead of allowing the One whom God sent to be our teacher, the Holy Spirit of Truth, to unveil to pure minds and transformed hearts the hidden mysteries of the Kingdom of God, and His great plan and purpose. If we all have the right teacher we will all be taught the same thing, and what we learn of Him will be the truth. What He teaches is truth; He cannot give us anything else but truth.
When we think we know it all, we shut ourselves off from further revelation, and make it impossible for the Spirit of Truth to guide us into all truth. We need to pay heed to the Biblical injunction, "If any man think that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know" (I Cor. 8:2). Yes, we still have a lot to learn, there is yet much of the total picture to be revealed to us, and as the beams of divine revelation stream from the glory above, let us ever walk in that light, and as we do, it will be fulfilled in us what the scriptures say, "The path of the just is as a shining light, that shines more and more unto the perfect day" (Prov. 4:18).
There are many precious christians who believe, and have received the Lord Jesus as their Saviour, who try to fit into this one, initial experience with the Lord, all the parts of the Word of God that pertain to further experiences. The infilling of the Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit, the in Christ experience, sonship, overcoming and reigning with Christ, and many others, they think these have all been incorporated in this first experience of regeneration. Yet, those of us who have received the infilling of the Holy Spirit as another experience, know what blessing and reality they are depriving themselves of when they assume that they have received the infilling of the Holy Spirit when they first believed. The infilling of the Spirit is not the end either, as many Charismatic seem to believe, it is merely the beginning of more and more wonderful experiences with the Lord, and we continue to walk in the Spirit and grow up into the image and glory of God.
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[color=darkblue]TRUTH ??????????????????[/color]
Moderator: Moderators
Re: [color=darkblue]TRUTH ??????????????????[/color]
Post #2Could you please give me some examples from you walk with the holy spirit. How does he help, guide, show his love for you in your daily life? Does he teach you the same kinds of things that Jesus taught his apostles?Benoni wrote:Most of the differences in scriptural interpretation among Christians is the result of an incomplete knowledge of the plan and purpose of God. Much of what is taught and believed in Christian circles today is derived from the wrong source - Bible study! That statement may astound you, and you may demand to know why I say that the great mass of confusion in Bible teaching stems from the wrong source - Bible study.
What's wrong with Bible study? Isn't this very article an effort in Bible study? Ah, there is nothing whatever wrong with Bible study IF WE HAVE THE RIGHT TEACHER TEACHING US. Christians gather together in Bible schools, Bible study groups, Sunday schools, etc., to study the Word of God, but the problem with the vast majority of such groups is that they have the wrong teacher - the human, natural, carnal mind! They try to decipher the deep and wondrous and spiritual mysteries of the Word of God with the human intellect, instead of allowing the One whom God sent to be our teacher, the Holy Spirit of Truth, to unveil to pure minds and transformed hearts the hidden mysteries of the Kingdom of God, and His great plan and purpose. If we all have the right teacher we will all be taught the same thing, and what we learn of Him will be the truth. What He teaches is truth; He cannot give us anything else but truth.
When we think we know it all, we shut ourselves off from further revelation, and make it impossible for the Spirit of Truth to guide us into all truth. We need to pay heed to the Biblical injunction, "If any man think that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know" (I Cor. 8:2). Yes, we still have a lot to learn, there is yet much of the total picture to be revealed to us, and as the beams of divine revelation stream from the glory above, let us ever walk in that light, and as we do, it will be fulfilled in us what the scriptures say, "The path of the just is as a shining light, that shines more and more unto the perfect day" (Prov. 4:18).
There are many precious christians who believe, and have received the Lord Jesus as their Saviour, who try to fit into this one, initial experience with the Lord, all the parts of the Word of God that pertain to further experiences. The infilling of the Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit, the in Christ experience, sonship, overcoming and reigning with Christ, and many others, they think these have all been incorporated in this first experience of regeneration. Yet, those of us who have received the infilling of the Holy Spirit as another experience, know what blessing and reality they are depriving themselves of when they assume that they have received the infilling of the Holy Spirit when they first believed. The infilling of the Spirit is not the end either, as many Charismatic seem to believe, it is merely the beginning of more and more wonderful experiences with the Lord, and we continue to walk in the Spirit and grow up into the image and glory of God.
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Re: [color=darkblue]TRUTH ??????????????????[/color]
Post #3Let me tell you something pretty much everything religion teaches is either not scriptural and they are oviously led by man. Truth is but one example; the religious man looks backs for truth to religous men, creeds dogmas just like all carnal men. the spiritual man always is seeking asking and knocking for more truth for He knows God's truth is not a worn out old wine skin that would burst if the new wine or revelation touched it.bareslehm wrote:Could you please give me some examples from you walk with the holy spirit. How does he help, guide, show his love for you in your daily life? Does he teach you the same kinds of things that Jesus taught his apostles?Benoni wrote:Most of the differences in scriptural interpretation among Christians is the result of an incomplete knowledge of the plan and purpose of God. Much of what is taught and believed in Christian circles today is derived from the wrong source - Bible study! That statement may astound you, and you may demand to know why I say that the great mass of confusion in Bible teaching stems from the wrong source - Bible study.
What's wrong with Bible study? Isn't this very article an effort in Bible study? Ah, there is nothing whatever wrong with Bible study IF WE HAVE THE RIGHT TEACHER TEACHING US. Christians gather together in Bible schools, Bible study groups, Sunday schools, etc., to study the Word of God, but the problem with the vast majority of such groups is that they have the wrong teacher - the human, natural, carnal mind! They try to decipher the deep and wondrous and spiritual mysteries of the Word of God with the human intellect, instead of allowing the One whom God sent to be our teacher, the Holy Spirit of Truth, to unveil to pure minds and transformed hearts the hidden mysteries of the Kingdom of God, and His great plan and purpose. If we all have the right teacher we will all be taught the same thing, and what we learn of Him will be the truth. What He teaches is truth; He cannot give us anything else but truth.
When we think we know it all, we shut ourselves off from further revelation, and make it impossible for the Spirit of Truth to guide us into all truth. We need to pay heed to the Biblical injunction, "If any man think that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know" (I Cor. 8:2). Yes, we still have a lot to learn, there is yet much of the total picture to be revealed to us, and as the beams of divine revelation stream from the glory above, let us ever walk in that light, and as we do, it will be fulfilled in us what the scriptures say, "The path of the just is as a shining light, that shines more and more unto the perfect day" (Prov. 4:18).
There are many precious christians who believe, and have received the Lord Jesus as their Saviour, who try to fit into this one, initial experience with the Lord, all the parts of the Word of God that pertain to further experiences. The infilling of the Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit, the in Christ experience, sonship, overcoming and reigning with Christ, and many others, they think these have all been incorporated in this first experience of regeneration. Yet, those of us who have received the infilling of the Holy Spirit as another experience, know what blessing and reality they are depriving themselves of when they assume that they have received the infilling of the Holy Spirit when they first believed. The infilling of the Spirit is not the end either, as many Charismatic seem to believe, it is merely the beginning of more and more wonderful experiences with the Lord, and we continue to walk in the Spirit and grow up into the image and glory of God.
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Re: [color=darkblue]TRUTH ??????????????????[/color]
Post #4I am sorry, but to me that sound like philosophy, without any connection to the lives that people actually live, and without any answers to their questions. To me it sound like you belive you have reached a special (hidden?) level of intimacy with God, but you are unable to share it with us in an understandable way. That to me defeats the purpose of being christian. We are supposed to go out and tell the good news, but we can only do that if we can explain to people what is actually is we belive. "truth is but one example" sounds "like there is no absolut truth" to me.Benoni wrote:Let me tell you something pretty much everything religion teaches is either not scriptural and they are oviously led by man. Truth is but one example; the religious man looks backs for truth to religous men, creeds dogmas just like all carnal men. the spiritual man always is seeking asking and knocking for more truth for He knows God's truth is not a worn out old wine skin that would burst if the new wine or revelation touched it.bareslehm wrote:Could you please give me some examples from you walk with the holy spirit. How does he help, guide, show his love for you in your daily life? Does he teach you the same kinds of things that Jesus taught his apostles?Benoni wrote:Most of the differences in scriptural interpretation among Christians is the result of an incomplete knowledge of the plan and purpose of God. Much of what is taught and believed in Christian circles today is derived from the wrong source - Bible study! That statement may astound you, and you may demand to know why I say that the great mass of confusion in Bible teaching stems from the wrong source - Bible study.
What's wrong with Bible study? Isn't this very article an effort in Bible study? Ah, there is nothing whatever wrong with Bible study IF WE HAVE THE RIGHT TEACHER TEACHING US. Christians gather together in Bible schools, Bible study groups, Sunday schools, etc., to study the Word of God, but the problem with the vast majority of such groups is that they have the wrong teacher - the human, natural, carnal mind! They try to decipher the deep and wondrous and spiritual mysteries of the Word of God with the human intellect, instead of allowing the One whom God sent to be our teacher, the Holy Spirit of Truth, to unveil to pure minds and transformed hearts the hidden mysteries of the Kingdom of God, and His great plan and purpose. If we all have the right teacher we will all be taught the same thing, and what we learn of Him will be the truth. What He teaches is truth; He cannot give us anything else but truth.
When we think we know it all, we shut ourselves off from further revelation, and make it impossible for the Spirit of Truth to guide us into all truth. We need to pay heed to the Biblical injunction, "If any man think that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know" (I Cor. 8:2). Yes, we still have a lot to learn, there is yet much of the total picture to be revealed to us, and as the beams of divine revelation stream from the glory above, let us ever walk in that light, and as we do, it will be fulfilled in us what the scriptures say, "The path of the just is as a shining light, that shines more and more unto the perfect day" (Prov. 4:18).
There are many precious christians who believe, and have received the Lord Jesus as their Saviour, who try to fit into this one, initial experience with the Lord, all the parts of the Word of God that pertain to further experiences. The infilling of the Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit, the in Christ experience, sonship, overcoming and reigning with Christ, and many others, they think these have all been incorporated in this first experience of regeneration. Yet, those of us who have received the infilling of the Holy Spirit as another experience, know what blessing and reality they are depriving themselves of when they assume that they have received the infilling of the Holy Spirit when they first believed. The infilling of the Spirit is not the end either, as many Charismatic seem to believe, it is merely the beginning of more and more wonderful experiences with the Lord, and we continue to walk in the Spirit and grow up into the image and glory of God.
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Re: [color=darkblue]TRUTH ??????????????????[/color]
Post #5There is an absolute truth in scripture; problem is religious man does not hear it or see it. There are attuallly two Word's of God in scripture. I have already posted this but here it is again. By the way carnal man cannot hear what you are telling them for they are dead spiritually and cannot comprehend the spiritual realm or spiritual things.bareslehm wrote:I am sorry, but to me that sound like philosophy, without any connection to the lives that people actually live, and without any answers to their questions. To me it sound like you belive you have reached a special (hidden?) level of intimacy with God, but you are unable to share it with us in an understandable way. That to me defeats the purpose of being christian. We are supposed to go out and tell the good news, but we can only do that if we can explain to people what is actually is we belive. "truth is but one example" sounds "like there is no absolut truth" to me.Benoni wrote:Let me tell you something pretty much everything religion teaches is either not scriptural and they are oviously led by man. Truth is but one example; the religious man looks backs for truth to religous men, creeds dogmas just like all carnal men. the spiritual man always is seeking asking and knocking for more truth for He knows God's truth is not a worn out old wine skin that would burst if the new wine or revelation touched it.bareslehm wrote:Could you please give me some examples from you walk with the holy spirit. How does he help, guide, show his love for you in your daily life? Does he teach you the same kinds of things that Jesus taught his apostles?Benoni wrote:Most of the differences in scriptural interpretation among Christians is the result of an incomplete knowledge of the plan and purpose of God. Much of what is taught and believed in Christian circles today is derived from the wrong source - Bible study! That statement may astound you, and you may demand to know why I say that the great mass of confusion in Bible teaching stems from the wrong source - Bible study.
What's wrong with Bible study? Isn't this very article an effort in Bible study? Ah, there is nothing whatever wrong with Bible study IF WE HAVE THE RIGHT TEACHER TEACHING US. Christians gather together in Bible schools, Bible study groups, Sunday schools, etc., to study the Word of God, but the problem with the vast majority of such groups is that they have the wrong teacher - the human, natural, carnal mind! They try to decipher the deep and wondrous and spiritual mysteries of the Word of God with the human intellect, instead of allowing the One whom God sent to be our teacher, the Holy Spirit of Truth, to unveil to pure minds and transformed hearts the hidden mysteries of the Kingdom of God, and His great plan and purpose. If we all have the right teacher we will all be taught the same thing, and what we learn of Him will be the truth. What He teaches is truth; He cannot give us anything else but truth.
When we think we know it all, we shut ourselves off from further revelation, and make it impossible for the Spirit of Truth to guide us into all truth. We need to pay heed to the Biblical injunction, "If any man think that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know" (I Cor. 8:2). Yes, we still have a lot to learn, there is yet much of the total picture to be revealed to us, and as the beams of divine revelation stream from the glory above, let us ever walk in that light, and as we do, it will be fulfilled in us what the scriptures say, "The path of the just is as a shining light, that shines more and more unto the perfect day" (Prov. 4:18).
There are many precious christians who believe, and have received the Lord Jesus as their Saviour, who try to fit into this one, initial experience with the Lord, all the parts of the Word of God that pertain to further experiences. The infilling of the Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit, the in Christ experience, sonship, overcoming and reigning with Christ, and many others, they think these have all been incorporated in this first experience of regeneration. Yet, those of us who have received the infilling of the Holy Spirit as another experience, know what blessing and reality they are depriving themselves of when they assume that they have received the infilling of the Holy Spirit when they first believed. The infilling of the Spirit is not the end either, as many Charismatic seem to believe, it is merely the beginning of more and more wonderful experiences with the Lord, and we continue to walk in the Spirit and grow up into the image and glory of God.
[/b]
The apostle Paul, speaking of the whole armor of God, admonishes the
saints to "put on…the sword of the Spirit, WHICH IS THE WORD OF GOD"
(Eph. 6:17). Then the writer to the Hebrews declares that the sword of
God’s word is "QUICK." Quick means living and active — LIFE-GIVING!
"For the word of God that speaks is alive and full of power — making it
active, operative, energizing and effective; it is sharper than any
two-edged sword" (Heb. 4:12, Amplified).
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing…for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life!" (Jn. 6:63; II Cor. 3:6). The swordof the Spirit is the quickening, energizing, life-giving WORD OF GOD! I shall not hesitate to explain to you, that there are two aspects of the word of God. Jesus Christ is the Word — the Logos —
THE LIVING, CREATIVE WORD! But there is also that word which Paul calls "the letter." The letter is the outer hull, the record and history, the laws
and commandments, the rules and regulations, the types, shadows and
figures, the external ordinances, rituals, ceremonies, and feasts; the
visible form of the word which tells us, in terms understandable by the
natural mind, many things about the Living Word, Jesus Christ.
It should be clear to any thinking mind that the law given by Moses was a word from God. Many, many scriptures confirm that it was the very Lord Himself who spoke to Moses giving him the laws, commandments, judgments, and ordinances. Therefore it is called "the law of the Lord." Yet Paul, in speaking of this word from God, calls it "the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones." Then he further designates it "the
ministration of condemnation." You, see, the law could only condemn! The only way the law could give life was if one perfectly kept it, but for every broken law there was a penalty. And no one was ever able to keep it! "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Therefore the law with all of its commandments, ceremonies, rituals, sacrifices, and observances is a dead word, it is form without essence, law withoutlife, shadow without substance, chaff without kernel, it is the letter that killeth! It is "a word" about "The Word" and therefore shuts men up unto the dominion of death. It should not be difficult to understand that as Jesus Christ is the Living Word of God, the sword of the Spirit that quickens, so is the Letter of the Word a deadly sword, killing rather than quickening. Ah, two words and two swords! The flaming sword of the Cherubim is the word of the law which is a ministration of condemnation and death. It keeps men out of Eden, away from the tree of life! But the sword out of the mouth of God’s Christ is a living sword that excellent in glory as the ministration of Life!
There is a problem with religious man approach to the truth; and I am just as guilty we all have our bias and want people to see it my way. Let “The Spirit of Truth�, reveal too me not; the 10,000 voices of Babylon who all have a different understanding.
There is a lot more to then language as we discuss the types, patterns, mysteries, shadows, parables, allegories etc. But the Bible uses these literal things to point to the things of the spirit. If all it takes to be spiritual is to go to church every Sunday and follow all the rules and regulations then we would have a very spiritual harmonious church system out there.
1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
To try to make God’s Word simple or where you can easily understand it is a grave mistake that is what is wrong with all religions. That is why God hides this vastness of His revelation and to understand his deepness is not an easy
Re: [color=darkblue]TRUTH ??????????????????[/color]
Post #6I actually disagree on a fundamental level. If God want all humans to be saved, then the gospel must be a simple message. The gospel can not only be available to the educated, the rich, the intellectuals, and so on. That would exclude so many people from salvation. The gospel must be something that everyone can understand and belive with the help of the holy spirit, and it must be something that all christians are able to explain to others, in order for Jesus last command, to go preach to the nations, to make any senseBenoni wrote:There is an absolute truth in scripture; problem is religious man does not hear it or see it. There are attuallly two Word's of God in scripture. I have already posted this but here it is again. By the way carnal man cannot hear what you are telling them for they are dead spiritually and cannot comprehend the spiritual realm or spiritual things.bareslehm wrote:I am sorry, but to me that sound like philosophy, without any connection to the lives that people actually live, and without any answers to their questions. To me it sound like you belive you have reached a special (hidden?) level of intimacy with God, but you are unable to share it with us in an understandable way. That to me defeats the purpose of being christian. We are supposed to go out and tell the good news, but we can only do that if we can explain to people what is actually is we belive. "truth is but one example" sounds "like there is no absolut truth" to me.Benoni wrote:Let me tell you something pretty much everything religion teaches is either not scriptural and they are oviously led by man. Truth is but one example; the religious man looks backs for truth to religous men, creeds dogmas just like all carnal men. the spiritual man always is seeking asking and knocking for more truth for He knows God's truth is not a worn out old wine skin that would burst if the new wine or revelation touched it.bareslehm wrote:Could you please give me some examples from you walk with the holy spirit. How does he help, guide, show his love for you in your daily life? Does he teach you the same kinds of things that Jesus taught his apostles?Benoni wrote:Most of the differences in scriptural interpretation among Christians is the result of an incomplete knowledge of the plan and purpose of God. Much of what is taught and believed in Christian circles today is derived from the wrong source - Bible study! That statement may astound you, and you may demand to know why I say that the great mass of confusion in Bible teaching stems from the wrong source - Bible study.
What's wrong with Bible study? Isn't this very article an effort in Bible study? Ah, there is nothing whatever wrong with Bible study IF WE HAVE THE RIGHT TEACHER TEACHING US. Christians gather together in Bible schools, Bible study groups, Sunday schools, etc., to study the Word of God, but the problem with the vast majority of such groups is that they have the wrong teacher - the human, natural, carnal mind! They try to decipher the deep and wondrous and spiritual mysteries of the Word of God with the human intellect, instead of allowing the One whom God sent to be our teacher, the Holy Spirit of Truth, to unveil to pure minds and transformed hearts the hidden mysteries of the Kingdom of God, and His great plan and purpose. If we all have the right teacher we will all be taught the same thing, and what we learn of Him will be the truth. What He teaches is truth; He cannot give us anything else but truth.
When we think we know it all, we shut ourselves off from further revelation, and make it impossible for the Spirit of Truth to guide us into all truth. We need to pay heed to the Biblical injunction, "If any man think that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know" (I Cor. 8:2). Yes, we still have a lot to learn, there is yet much of the total picture to be revealed to us, and as the beams of divine revelation stream from the glory above, let us ever walk in that light, and as we do, it will be fulfilled in us what the scriptures say, "The path of the just is as a shining light, that shines more and more unto the perfect day" (Prov. 4:18).
There are many precious christians who believe, and have received the Lord Jesus as their Saviour, who try to fit into this one, initial experience with the Lord, all the parts of the Word of God that pertain to further experiences. The infilling of the Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit, the in Christ experience, sonship, overcoming and reigning with Christ, and many others, they think these have all been incorporated in this first experience of regeneration. Yet, those of us who have received the infilling of the Holy Spirit as another experience, know what blessing and reality they are depriving themselves of when they assume that they have received the infilling of the Holy Spirit when they first believed. The infilling of the Spirit is not the end either, as many Charismatic seem to believe, it is merely the beginning of more and more wonderful experiences with the Lord, and we continue to walk in the Spirit and grow up into the image and glory of God.
[/b]
The apostle Paul, speaking of the whole armor of God, admonishes the
saints to "put on…the sword of the Spirit, WHICH IS THE WORD OF GOD"
(Eph. 6:17). Then the writer to the Hebrews declares that the sword of
God’s word is "QUICK." Quick means living and active — LIFE-GIVING!
"For the word of God that speaks is alive and full of power — making it
active, operative, energizing and effective; it is sharper than any
two-edged sword" (Heb. 4:12, Amplified).
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing…for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life!" (Jn. 6:63; II Cor. 3:6). The swordof the Spirit is the quickening, energizing, life-giving WORD OF GOD! I shall not hesitate to explain to you, that there are two aspects of the word of God. Jesus Christ is the Word — the Logos —
THE LIVING, CREATIVE WORD! But there is also that word which Paul calls "the letter." The letter is the outer hull, the record and history, the laws
and commandments, the rules and regulations, the types, shadows and
figures, the external ordinances, rituals, ceremonies, and feasts; the
visible form of the word which tells us, in terms understandable by the
natural mind, many things about the Living Word, Jesus Christ.
It should be clear to any thinking mind that the law given by Moses was a word from God. Many, many scriptures confirm that it was the very Lord Himself who spoke to Moses giving him the laws, commandments, judgments, and ordinances. Therefore it is called "the law of the Lord." Yet Paul, in speaking of this word from God, calls it "the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones." Then he further designates it "the
ministration of condemnation." You, see, the law could only condemn! The only way the law could give life was if one perfectly kept it, but for every broken law there was a penalty. And no one was ever able to keep it! "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Therefore the law with all of its commandments, ceremonies, rituals, sacrifices, and observances is a dead word, it is form without essence, law withoutlife, shadow without substance, chaff without kernel, it is the letter that killeth! It is "a word" about "The Word" and therefore shuts men up unto the dominion of death. It should not be difficult to understand that as Jesus Christ is the Living Word of God, the sword of the Spirit that quickens, so is the Letter of the Word a deadly sword, killing rather than quickening. Ah, two words and two swords! The flaming sword of the Cherubim is the word of the law which is a ministration of condemnation and death. It keeps men out of Eden, away from the tree of life! But the sword out of the mouth of God’s Christ is a living sword that excellent in glory as the ministration of Life!
There is a problem with religious man approach to the truth; and I am just as guilty we all have our bias and want people to see it my way. Let “The Spirit of Truth�, reveal too me not; the 10,000 voices of Babylon who all have a different understanding.
There is a lot more to then language as we discuss the types, patterns, mysteries, shadows, parables, allegories etc. But the Bible uses these literal things to point to the things of the spirit. If all it takes to be spiritual is to go to church every Sunday and follow all the rules and regulations then we would have a very spiritual harmonious church system out there.
1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
To try to make God’s Word simple or where you can easily understand it is a grave mistake that is what is wrong with all religions. That is why God hides this vastness of His revelation and to understand his deepness is not an easy
I agree that we can never fully understand God, and that there is a deepness in God we can never understand. But salvation must be understandable, belivable or no-one would be save
Post #7
This might be true if God was calling all people now; but He is not.I actually disagree on a fundamental level. If God want all humans to be saved, then the gospel must be a simple message. The gospel can not only be available to the educated, the rich, the intellectuals, and so on. That would exclude so many people from salvation. The gospel must be something that everyone can understand and belive with the help of the holy spirit, and it must be something that all christians are able to explain to others, in order for Jesus last command, to go preach to the nations, to make any sense
I agree that we can never fully understand God, and that there is a deepness in God we can never understand. But salvation must be understandable, belivable or no-one would be save
1 Corinthians 15:22-24
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession:
If God does not call you, you cannot come.
(Acts 2:39)
"For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."
The firstfruits will be used for the remainder of all the rest god has not called. No the message is not simple; for the process of God’s Priesthood for those who eat the meat of the Word not the milk. Anyone can drink milk especially spiritual babies, but meat take some one who is mature and has spiritual teeth to chew on it.
Post #8
But how does all this fit with your universalist view? Why would God send Jesus to die on the cross, and then have us proclaim the gospel, and call people to belive, if all are saved no matter what? (this is a serious question, i want to understand why you share what you belive, if you belive it does not matter what people belive?)Benoni wrote:This might be true if God was calling all people now; but He is not.I actually disagree on a fundamental level. If God want all humans to be saved, then the gospel must be a simple message. The gospel can not only be available to the educated, the rich, the intellectuals, and so on. That would exclude so many people from salvation. The gospel must be something that everyone can understand and belive with the help of the holy spirit, and it must be something that all christians are able to explain to others, in order for Jesus last command, to go preach to the nations, to make any sense
I agree that we can never fully understand God, and that there is a deepness in God we can never understand. But salvation must be understandable, belivable or no-one would be save
1 Corinthians 15:22-24
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession:
If God does not call you, you cannot come.
(Acts 2:39)
"For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."
The firstfruits will be used for the remainder of all the rest god has not called. No the message is not simple; for the process of God’s Priesthood for those who eat the meat of the Word not the milk. Anyone can drink milk especially spiritual babies, but meat take some one who is mature and has spiritual teeth to chew on it.
Post #9
bareslehm
But how does all this fit with your universalist view? Why would God send Jesus to die on the cross, and then have us proclaim the gospel, and call people to belive, if all are saved no matter what? (this is a serious question, i want to understand why you share what you belive, if you belive it does not matter what people belive?)
Now you’re asking the big question; this may take so explaining. I would be glad to back all this with scripture if you have any questions.
God wants sons not servant, overcoming manifest sons to rule and reign not innocent babes who fail temptations. When Adam died we all died from the realm of God; this is a spiritual death not so much a physical death. Without the fall Adam/mankind would have been a bunch of pre-programmed robots doing God’s will because God programmed us to do His will. So o the first thing “God did’ was knock us out of the garden, blind us, cause us to be spiritually dead... so we can search for God but each his own order file or rank.
Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.
1 Corinthians 15:22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
In other words the death of Jesus reversed the curse, note verses above. But God is not calling all people now; but He is calling forth His firstfruits.
Rev. 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, a[a] Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. 3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed[c] from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no deceit,[d] for they are without fault before the throne of God.[e]
Who God will make Kings and Priest from His Overcoming sons for the remainder of all mankind in a nut shell. The world is our wilderness experience where against all odds God will produce sons worthy of His throne who will rule and reign in the Melchizedek order.
Revelations 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion (the high places of Ruleship in the kingdom) to judge the mount of Esau (Flesh); and the kingdom shall be the LORD's.
Notice the verse above and then read Hebrews 7-8. I know this confuses a lot of God’s people but many are so inclined to believe that heaven is a place where we will all go and sing and play harps etc. I believe God is calling a priesthood of Kings and Priest. Our mission as a firstfruit is the remainder of mankind.
What is the Tabernacle or tent of David?
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Acts 15:14 Simeon [a] has reported how God first intervened to take from the Gentiles a people for His name. (A) 15 And the words of the prophets agree with this, as it is written:
16 After these things I will return
and will rebuild David's tent, which has fallen down.
I will rebuild its ruins and will set it up again,
17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord—
even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
says the Lord who does these things,
Of course a big part of the process is going though God's fire, Chrisitain Universalism is the most rejected belief a Christian can have. The Tabernacle of David was at Mt Zion.
Romans 9:33
As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed
Hebrews 9:11
But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Hebrews 7:5
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Hebrews 7:4-6
If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Hebrews 7:10-12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Hebrews 7:11-13
For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Hebrews 7:13-15
But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Hebrews 7:23-25
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 2:4-6
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Of course this is in a nutshell.
Post #10
Among the many things I think are crazy about the OP and the Xian response to it, I just have to clear something up:
Benoni, are you really - in this day and age, with a straight face - telling me your theology is based on a curse? Like the evil eye, or some wizards spell?
I get the mythology that you are talking about, as tortured as it is, but, man!, a curse?
Like "Death comes on wings to he who enters the tomb of a pharaoh."
I hate to say it, but it must be said, it sounds like the making of an urban legend, not a religion that a god would have a person follow...
Benoni, are you really - in this day and age, with a straight face - telling me your theology is based on a curse? Like the evil eye, or some wizards spell?
I get the mythology that you are talking about, as tortured as it is, but, man!, a curse?
Like "Death comes on wings to he who enters the tomb of a pharaoh."
I hate to say it, but it must be said, it sounds like the making of an urban legend, not a religion that a god would have a person follow...
