WHY DOES God HIDE HIMSELF.

[Benoni]

Pro. 25: 2
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter

I love the above verse and find such an awesome deepness in God in things that are hidden. I find the Bible full of hidden mysteries (Greek Sacred Secret) and what amazes me are some many brothers and sisters in the Lord actually believe there are no mysteries in scripture.

God Himself hides Himself from man. This was not the case in the Garden of Eden; but once man became naked our perception of God changed. When Adam died; he did not die at that moment as we all know death. He died phyically at the age of 930 years old. But what did happened is he died spiritually at that moment he became naked which has nothing to do with not having clothing in the natural sense.

You see a dead man cannot see, hear, touch etc. A spiritual dead man is dead to the realm of the spirit and cannot see, hear, touch God as Adam did in the garden.

[JoeyKnothead]

Your vision is earthbound.

Benoni you are welcome to your belief system if it does the business for you, but convincing you are not. The more I read the Bible the more convinced I am that there is no divine inspiration involved, it reads like the work of mere humans to me. The deity has been created with all the nastiest of human failings!

It seems a common religious tactic to insult folks who disagree.

What better example of Misty's point can one conceive? After being told why the claimant (Benoni) isn't trusted, all we get is a smear against Misty's "vision"? I lack sufficient mental capacity to fully 'preciate all the goofy going on there.

The quality of debate suffers when folks go to blaming the ones they can't convince.

How "Christian".

[Misty]

In my experience of Christians, which is vast, the more fundamentalist a Christian is, the more likely it is that their brand of dogma is not to the benefit of others. They are often unpleasant, judgemental, bigoted and not nice to be around.

[WinePusher]

In my experience of Christians, which is vast, the more fundamentalist a Christian is, the more likely it is that their brand of dogma is not to the benefit of others. They are often unpleasant, judgemental, bigoted and not nice to be around.

Yes, it can also be very unpleasant associating with atheists who call christians "Deluded" "Insane Bible Thumpers" "Crazy Fairy Tale Believers."

It can also be very unpleasant when atheists write believers off as "uneducated" and "misinformed."

Also, it can be unpleasant when atheists smear the God that Christians hold so highly and reverantly. Do atheists not know that christians worship and sometimes, devote their entire lives to "God." Yet we see atheists publish books called

"The God Delusion"
"God Is Not Great"

and equate the God Christians worship and love to a

"Flying Spaghetti Monster"

Do atheists not realize the amount of reverance and esteem christians worship their God with? Could they not be more civil and respectful?

So, perhaps before the atheists on this forum cry crocidile tears at christian incivility and bigotry, they should look at their own actions and stop the hypocracy.

[Zzyzx]

.

In my experience of Christians, which is vast, the more fundamentalist a Christian is, the more likely it is that their brand of dogma is not to the benefit of others. They are often unpleasant, judgemental, bigoted and not nice to be around.

Yes, it can also be very unpleasant associating with atheists who call christians "Deluded" "Insane Bible Thumpers" "Crazy Fairy Tale Believers."

It must be even more unpleasant to attempt to debate non-believers when the only “evidence� Biblicists have to try to WIN a debate with consists of conjecture, opinion, and tales from a book they revere but others do not accept as truthful or accurate.

It can also be very unpleasant when atheists write believers off as "uneducated" and "misinformed."

It must be even more unpleasant when individual religionists DEMONSTRATE that they are uneducated and misinformed (even about their own dogma, literature and church history) in these debates.

Also, it can be unpleasant when atheists smear the God that Christians hold so highly and reverantly. Do atheists not know that christians worship and sometimes, devote their entire lives to "God." Yet we see atheists publish books called "The God Delusion" "God Is Not Great"

Everyone should realize that their sacred cows are not sacred to others – AND that others have just as much right to express their opinions in books of their choosing as believers have to tout the bible.

and equate the God Christians worship and love to a "Flying Spaghetti Monster"

You seem to be disrespecting the “Spaghetti Monster�. Do you show proper respect for Leprechauns and the thousands of “gods� proposed by others?

Do atheists not realize the amount of reverance and esteem christians worship their God with?

Most non-believers appear to be aware of the fervency (often fanaticism) with which many believers worship their chosen “gods�. There is ample evidence of such things in these debates as well as elsewhere.

Could they not be more civil and respectful?

Yes, they should be as civil and respectful as Fervent Christians are toward Islam. Comments in current threads indicate incivility and lack of respect. Hypocrisy?

So, perhaps before the atheists on this forum cry crocidile tears at christian incivility and bigotry, they should look at their own actions and stop the hypocracy.

And perhaps Ardent Religionists should demonstrate “Christian Values� by setting an example of that which they preach – instead of demonstrating frustration and hostility when they cannot debate effectively.

[Benoni]

First of all I am not religious, I am he most un-religious Christian I know of; in fact I am ani- religious. I did not insult her vision I made a valid point about her vision; she is NOT spiritually minded, she is earth minded she said it her self.

My last post was about vision; she did not see anything remotely divine; God is a spirit and there is no way an earth bound person can see and hear spiritual matter. This is what scripture declares, this is what Misty told me and it is a fact not a insult for she said her self she was a natural person and not a spiritual person.

There is nothing intellectual about what I am saying, (God is a spirit not a brain) nothing about mental capacity this is a spiritual matter to which is not my fault, not Misty’s fault or yours; God simple has not called her to where she can hear spiritual things.

It is God's fault...His timing.

Man does not have a freewill to believe. This is a fact of scripture to which Misty admits she does not see; so yes her vision is earthbound; the vast majority of God’s peoples including the vast majority of Christians vision is earthbound; they are natural people to which Misty expressed of her self. I cannot convince anyone anything about God; He is a spirit and He must quicken that person first.

But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14

Your vision is earthbound.

Benoni you are welcome to your belief system if it does the business for you, but convincing you are not. The more I read the Bible the more convinced I am that there is no divine inspiration involved, it reads like the work of mere humans to me. The deity has been created with all the nastiest of human failings!

It seems a common religious tactic to insult folks who disagree.

What better example of Misty's point can one conceive? After being told why the claimant (Benoni) isn't trusted, all we get is a smear against Misty's "vision"? I lack sufficient mental capacity to fully 'preciate all the goofy going on there.

The quality of debate suffers when folks go to blaming the ones they can't convince.

How "Christian".

[Benoni]

In my experience of Christians, which is vast, the more fundamentalist a Christian is, the more likely it is that their brand of dogma is not to the benefit of others. They are often unpleasant, judgemental, bigoted and not nice to be around.

I do not believe in religious dogma and find my self at odds with people before mentioned above and using the very Word of God they believe in; and I do totally agree with your statement; but I will add please do not limit your attack on just religious people This is a debate and we are in a discussion on points we do not agree on and yes they can get heated but that is part of the fun of a debate.

[Benoni]

In my experience of Christians, which is vast, the more fundamentalist a Christian is, the more likely it is that their brand of dogma is not to the benefit of others. They are often unpleasant, judgemental, bigoted and not nice to be around.

Yes, it can also be very unpleasant associating with atheists who call christians "Deluded" "Insane Bible Thumpers" "Crazy Fairy Tale Believers."

It can also be very unpleasant when atheists write believers off as "uneducated" and "misinformed."

Also, it can be unpleasant when atheists smear the God that Christians hold so highly and reverantly. Do atheists not know that christians worship and sometimes, devote their entire lives to "God." Yet we see atheists publish books called

"The God Delusion"
"God Is Not Great"

and equate the God Christians worship and love to a

"Flying Spaghetti Monster"

Do atheists not realize the amount of reverance and esteem christians worship their God with? Could they not be more civil and respectful?

So, perhaps before the atheists on this forum cry crocidile tears at christian incivility and bigotry, they should look at their own actions and stop the hypocracy.

The problem is you are both right. If God does not call the unbeliever they simple do not have the power, the ability and the spiritual ability to come. Mean while a lot of Christian get pretty pushy.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 35:

First of all I am not religious, I am he most un-religious Christian I know of; in fact I am ani- religious.

1 : relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity <a religious person> <religious attitudes>
2 : of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances <joined a religious order>
3 a : scrupulously and conscientiously faithful b : fervent, zealous

Merriam disagrees with your personal assessment.

I did not insult her vision I made a valid point about her vision; she is no spiritually minded she is earth minded she said it her self. My last post was about vision; she did not see anything remotely divine; God is a spirit and there is no way an earth bound person can see and hear spiritual matter.

Yet so many, yourself included, think you can.

This is what scripture declares, this is what Misty told me and it is a fact not a insult for she said her self she was a natural person and not a spiritual person.

I'll accept that take, while still remembering the many insults the Bible has in store for folks who don't agree.

There is nothing intellectual about what I am saying, (God is a spirit not a brain) nothing about mental capacity this is a spiritual matter to which is not my fault, not Misty’s fault or yours; God simple has not called her to where she can her; and it is God's fault...His timing.

Can you show a god "calls" anyone?

Let me guess, "The Bible says so". Is there anything beyond the book promoting the claim to show the claim is true?

Man does not have a freewill to believe. This is a fact of scripture to which Misty admits she does not see; so yes her vision is earthbound; the vast majority of God’s peoples including the vast majority of Christians vision is earthbound; they are natural people to which Misty expressed of her self. I cannot convince anyone anything about God; He is a spirit and He must quicken that person first.

First you declare "...there is no way an earth bound person can see and hear spiritual matter", then you declare God is a "spirit". Consistency doesn't seem to be your strong suit.

>snip religious promotional quote as unevidenced<

[Benoni]

joeyknuccione"


You call it an insult because I said she is earthbound; are you earthbound or are you a spiritual person; you do not believe in scripture in any sense? You do not believe in God in any sense; I do and I cannot make you a spiritual person that is the spirit of truths duty; not man and His religion.

We are merely discussing and debating why God hides himself and I need to use scripture because I believe the spiritual Word is divine; you do not.

I really do not care about what Webster says about religion; there are many sources of gaining information and yes Webster is a good source. I read some where the Latin word for religion means to restrict, constrain.. taboo. I like that ‘taboo�.

Religious man is not God and he is carnal just like all earthy people, carnal means not spiritual; it is not an insult it is a fact.

Yes I believe very much God is calling a people for His name sake; no I cannot prove anything to a non-spiritual man.

God called Moses, David and Saul/Paul in scripture they had no freewill or choice to choose God.

I call that a spiritual/scriptural pattern and there is no place in the Bible where a man of God can come to God unless God first calls them

Except for King Saul and that too had a spiritual/scriptural reason for God to go against His own spiritual/scriptural pattern. I do not need anything beyond the Bible to show you spiritual/scriptural patterns; the Koran does not have these patterns and neither does the Book of Mormon for they were inspired by man not God.

First you declare "...there is no way an earth bound person can see and hear spiritual matter", then you declare God is a "spirit". Consistency doesn't seem to be your strong suit.

Let me clarify God is a spirit. There is no way an earth bound person can see or hear God on His own; God's spirit must quicken him first.

[Misty]

Let me clarify God is a spirit. There is no way an earth bound person can see or hear God on His own; God's spirit must quicken him first.

And what exactly do you mean by that pure assumption?