Lucia wrote:
Indeed. So the chances of getting an STD that could be life-threatening is virtually the same for a responsible homosexual than for a responsible heterosexual. If you live a reckless life, you might have your lifespan reduced, regardless of sexual orientation.
But gays are much more promiscous.
That is assuming homosexuality is wrong or a disease, which it is not accepted as by science. It is your opinion, and I respect it, but I don't see any objective proof for it. We might have to agree to disagree on that one.
Agreed.
Your god does. Your religious view is that homosexuality is wrong. And the true issue here in this topic is: Can we allow the religious views of some to be imposed on a minority?
The majority oppose gay marriage. Why oppose your opinion on them?
Doesn't christianity teach tolerance?
Not really, Christianity is not a morally relativistic religion. We are tolerant in trusting judgement to God in the next life, unlike Islam.
I read the entire article, since you insisted, even though it does not directly address my question (How does homosexual sex shorten lifespan as much as smoking?).
I saw no source cited in the article for these (30-year-old) percentages offered:
"Prior to the AIDS epidemic, a 1978 study found that 75 percent of white, gay males claimed to have had more than 100 lifetime male sex partners: 15 percent claimed 100-249 sex partners; 17 percent claimed 250-499; 15 percent claimed 500- 999; and 28 percent claimed more than 1,000 lifetime male sex partners."
28% had over a thousand sex partners? Seriously? I will definitely need a very good source to believe that. Was this research only taking into account homosexual rock stars or something like that?
After that, the whole article is based on how a promiscuous sex life is very dangerous, which I already knew, but it offers no source for it's allegation that homosexuals are, in general, more promiscuous than heterosexuals. Which leads me back to my first point: A reckless life can lead to STDs regardless of sexual orientation.
Again, gays are much more promiscous.
Homosexualitv and the Truth: Male Homosexuality and Compulsive Behavior
By Alan P. Medinger
Return to list of all articles or to the list of articles by Medinger.
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September, 1990
That homosexual men are on average extremely promiscuous, when compared to heterosexual men, is beyond dispute.
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A few days ago we received a phone call from the police in a nearby state. A man had been found murdered in his car-- shot nine times--on a quiet country lane where homosexual men go to make sexual contacts. He had a slip of paper in his wallet that gave the Regeneration phone number. We knew this man. Several years ago, my wife and I had met with him and his wife to try and help them.
This man--let's call him Mike -- even when we knew him, was involved in behavior that he seemed unable to control. He had a lovely wife and two young children. He appeared to be a Christian. Mike knew that his behavior could cause him to lose everything. I am sure he knew, as did most of us who cruised those lonely places late at night, or who picked up some tough looking stranger, that there was a real risk of ending up robbed, beaten, or wnr.~ .
Surely, we could label Mike's behavior as compulsive. The psychiatric profession's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-III-R) describes compulsive behavior as "repetitive, purposeful, and intentional behaviors that are performed in response to an obsession, or according to certain rules or in a stereotyped fashion." It goes on to say that the behavior is "designed to overcome discomfort," that the person "recognizes that his or her behavior is excessive or unreasonable."
I was like Mike. In my years of homosexual activity I did things and went places that I knew involved terrible risks; but I did them anyway. Were Mike and I typical of homosexual men? Is behavior that is excessive and unreasonable an integral part of homosexuality? Are all male homosexuals sexually compulsive? Are most of them?
First off, we can say with some certainty that all male homosexuals are not sexually compulsive. I have known any number who never, or who seldom, acted out sexually. On the other hand, there are strong indications that compulsive sexual behavior is highly prevalent among male homosexuals, particularly when compared with their heterosexual counterparts. Some recent news items and some widely accepted statistics support this connection.
A recent Time magazine articlel mentioned a survey of male homosexuals between the ages of 18 and 25 in San Francisco in which 46% of those polled reported that within the last month (italics mine) they had engaged in anal intercourse without a condom! Were most of these men unaware of AIDS or the way it is most often transmitted? Impossible. They were playing the sexual equivalent of Russian Roulette, and most of them had to know it.
A recently released large scale study of sexuality among Roman Catholic priests2 reported that approximately six to eight percent of the heterosexual priests were sexually active, but approximately 50 percent of the homosexually oriented priests were sexually active. Did the heterosexual priests have a more compelling reason to be faithful to their vows of celibacy than did their homosexual counterparts? It's hard to see why they would. Perhaps the most thorough study of its type, the Kinsey Institute study of homosexual men in San Francisco, presented in the book by Bell and Weinberg, Homosexualities, A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women3, reported the following:
43% of the white male homosexuals surveyed estimated they had had sex with 500 or more different partners -28% with over 1,000 partners
79% said more than half of their partners were strangers -- 70% said more than half of their sexual partners were men with whom they had sex only once.
These figures astound even the most worldly heterosexuals. In fact, a recent University of Chicago survey4 reveals that for the U.S population as a whole, the estimated number of sex partners since age 18 is 7.15 (8.67 for those never married). Finally, in our own organization, we have checked with members of our groups who also attend 12-step groups for sexual addicts (such as Sexahollcs Anonymous) and they estimate that at least half the participants in their groups have been homosexual, even though homosexuals probably make up less than 5% of the general population.
That homosexual men are on average extremely promiscuous, when compared to heterosexual men is beyond dispute. That many homosexual men act out sexually with great frequency, despite powerful reasons not to, is also quite obvious. The facts provide strong evidence that a high percentage of homosexual men are engaged in behavior that is "excessive or unreasonable", i.e., compulsive. An honest look at homosexuality could hardly lead to any other conclusion.
The next logical question then is: Will sexual compulsion inevitably occur with great frequency among homosexual men? Is it an inherent part of the homosexual condition, or have other factors in our culture and in our age given rise to the compulsion? This is an important and practical question, the answer to which could govern our entire response to homosexuality. If it is a condition that doesn't have to be, then let's get the destructive behavior stopped. If it is inevitable, then society must take a hard look at what it is doing to accept and affirm the homosexual lifestyle.
There are two possible-ways to account for the high level of sexual compulsion among homosexual men. It either comes from factors inside the individual (biological, psychological, or free will) or from outside (society's treatment of them, or peculiar conditions in today's gay sub-culture).
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The powerful influence of gay activists in this country, and the widespread sympathyfor the homosexual among the media and educational elite in the United States have made it almost impossible to speak publicly about such things as male homosexual compulsion.
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Most gays would certainly want to blame the condition on society, and we hear this quite frequently. Society is not supportive of committed gay relationships, and so the homosexual is forced into the counterculture of the bars, the bathhouses, the cruising places. This argument simply does not hold up when applied to other times and other situations.
Lesbian women face almost as much societal scorn and rejection as gay men, and yet they show little evidence of sexual compulsiveness. Fifty or sixty years ago "society" almost universally condemned pre- marital sex of the heterosexual variety, and yet we did not have incredible levels of heterosexual promiscuity.
In fact, tolerance and acceptance, while perhaps decreasing hypocrisy somewhat, inevitably increases the behavior that it is coming to accept. With male homosexuality, there is no evidence that in those places where homosexual relationships are most accepted--San Francisco, West Hollywood, New York City -- the level of promiscuity has gone down. In fact, AIDS statistics indicate just the opposite. The cities where homosexuality is most tolerated have both the highest numbers of AIDS cases, and the highest levels of HIV infection within the gay community. I don't believe that anyone has made a case to blame male homosexual compulsion on society.
The other "external" factor that we could look to as a cause for homosexual compulsion might be the gay subculture itself, or more precisely that culture as it exists in the United States today. Did it "just happen" through some sort of social evolution or perhaps for economic reasons?
If this were the case, without there being some peculiar condition within the homosexual to sustain it, the pattern would ebb and flow; perhaps even fade like many fads. But there is no evidence of this happening. Except for some reduction in sexual activity because of AIDS, there are no signs of male homosexual behavior starting to move towards the heterosexual norm. And although one could not imagine a stronger incentive to cut back on sexual promiscuity than AIDS, as the San Francisco survey cited reveals, the behavior continues at irrational levels.
This leaves us with "internal factors". Although cause-and-effect situations are almost impossible to prove with respect to human behavior, I suggest two causes that indicate that promiscuity and compulsion are inevitably going to occur at extraordinary rates among male homosexuals.
But first let me mention two internal factors which could theoretically explain this phenomenon, but for which the evidence does not warrant real discussion.
First, there is no evidence that male homosexuals have a biologically governed higher sex drive than heterosexuals; higher levels of testosterone for example. Second, I would challenge anyone to show that a person who happened to have a homosexual orientation would also likely evidence a lower level of moral character. From what we know about the origins of homosexuality, neither of these possibilities is worth considering.
The first factor that can be relevant is one that I believe most people will agree with. We are dealing with male to male sex, and male to male sex lacks one very strong limiting factor that is present in male to female sex -- the woman.
Most men--heterosexual and homosexual--are fully capable of enjoying sex without relationship; often without regard to who or what the object of their sexual release is. Women, on the other hand, at least emotionally healthy women, do not find sex gratifying absent a relationship with the partner.
So we do not find women meeting in parks for quick sex. Even a woman who pays for a man's services will likely need to put up the pretense that a love relationship exists. The absence of this natural barrier to casual sex is an inherent feature of male homosexuality. This is one reason why the male homosexual will always, on average, be far more promiscuous than his heterosexual counterpart.
Let me comment here on the relationship between promiscuity and compulsion. From my own struggles, from more than ten years of helping others with sexual problems, from the understanding that has grown up among Sexaholics Anonymous and other 12-step groups, we know that frequent sexual activity increases sexual desire.
This is directly opposite to what those who urged us to "throw offthe Victorian shackles" told us. They said that abstinence gave rise to frustration that led to excesses of behavior. Having bought into this lie is one of the great tragedies of our time. Frequent sexual activity increases the appetite, and if other factors are present, can lead to sexual obsession and compulsion.
So, the ease of finding sexual partners in the gay community not only increases promiscuity, it can be a contributing factor to sexual compulsion.
The second internal factor that very well may contribute to compulsion has to do with the differing non-erotic needs that the male homosexual and heterosexual are trying to meet through sexual intercourse.
Of course, both seek the pure physical pleasure of sexual contact. This drive may differ little with sexual orientation. But the sexual drive is also powered by strong psychological and emotional needs, and these are radically different in the two groups. The heterosexual is drawn to one who is unlike himself. Complete in his own manhood, he is drawn to a further completion in one who is his complement.
The very factors that make a woman different -- her feminine traits -- are what draw him, and he seeks to act and react to her womanliness with his manliness. His role is the initiator, the active one, the outer directed one, the pursuer, all characteristics of the masculine.
If he is unsure of his manhood, he may try to use women to affirm it, and he may be promiscuous -- but not to the levels of the homosexual. However, this is not the force that drives the healthy male. He is already complete in his manhood, and his union with the woman creates something new and wonderful.
The male homosexual, on the other hand, is not driven by the positive -- to go beyond himself. He is driven by the negative, the effects of past hurts and a sense of incompleteness in himself. Being drawn to one who is like himself, and being attracted by those very things that symbolize masculinity, there is strong evidence that he does not find these things in himself. Carrying from childhood a desire to be a man, but never feeling affirmed as a man, he seeks that manhood in another.
It is also likely that he was shortchanged in another stage of his development, and is trying to fill another internal void. He may never have been able to receive a father's love, as manifested in affirmation, approval and affection. Rather, he felt rejection, and so he now relentlessly seeks men who will affirm him, tell him he has worth, men who will show love for him.
Drives that arise out of deep unmet needs tend to be far stronger than drives that are a normal part of the human condition. It is the same with sex as with food or security. Particularly when the means used to try and meet those needs provide only a temporary relief from pain, but no lasting relief, the pursuit can become obsessional.
If just some of this is accurate, there is a strong likelihood that extreme promiscuity and sexual compulsion are inevitably going to be common factors in male homosexuality. I repeat what I said earlier; all male homosexuals are not sexually compulsive. But the extremely high occurrence of sexual compulsion is a fact of life among male homosexuals. And even if you don't go along with these reasons for why this is so, no one knows how to separate this tendency towards compulsive behavior from male homosexuality. Acceptance and approval of the condition is not doing it.
The powerful influence of gay activists in this country, and the widespread sympathy for the homosexual among the media and educational elite in the United States have made it almost impossible to speak publicly about such things as male homosexual compulsion. This has been tragic because recognizing the compulsive aspect of male homosexuality could help head off so much human suffering.
This is most evident in the battle against AIDS. The author of the Time magazine report cited earlier concluded her article with the statement that this high degree of continuing dangerous sexual activity among gay men in San Francisco showed how much more education was needed.
Could she really believe that many of those 46 percent did not know exactly what the most dangerous behavior was? She was either abysmally ignorant, or was simply obeying the media dictate that nothing negative be said about homosexuality. Vast numbers of gay men know the risks they are taking, but they are powerless to stop. They don't need more catchy slogans and clever posters; they need help with a life that is out of control.
Recognition of this aspect of homosexuality could change how we raise and educate our children. Many have come to accept that "homosexuality is just like heterosexuality". And so children are taught, in the public schools at least, that it is quite all right to be gay; no disadvantages, except societal prejudice, are acknowledged.
But suppose we told children and parents that if a boy grows up gay he is far more likely to find himself driven by sexual compulsions? Many agree that some things can be done to prevent homosexuality early in a child's life, and there seem to be some children who in adolescence could go either way. If this characteristic of homosexuality were recognized, surely some children could be steered or counseled away from a life that presents terrible inherent risks.
Finally, in groups like Regeneration, and in the church, we need to recognize the depth of the problem with which we are dealing. A significant percentage of the strugglers who come to us are dealing not only with a sexual orientation and identity problem, but also with a sexual compulsion problem. We may have to be more willing in these situations to draw on the wisdom of the 12-step groups and of others who deal with addictive behaviors. A long period of "sobriety" may be needed and strong lasting support systems may be necessary to break the compulsion. One of the reasons many people object to sex education in public schools is that they fear that, because of pressure groups and ideological biases, the whole truth will not be taught. Clearly, that is the case with homosexuality. The truth is repressed, and many suffer, not the least of whom is the man or boy who finds himself struggling with homosexual attractions.
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1. Time magazine, July 2,1990, A Losing Battle With Aids.
2. A.W. Richard Sipe, Presentation to the 98th Annual Convention of the American Psychological Association, August, 1990, to be published in A Secret World: Sexuality and the Church for Celibacy.
3. Alan P. Bell and Martin S. Weinberg, Homosexualities: A Study in Diversity Among Men and Women, (New York, Simon and Schuster, 1978 pp.308-309.
4. Tom W. Smith, Adult Sexual Behavior in 1989: Number of Partners, Frequency, and Risk, presented to the American Association for the Advancement of Science, February, 1990, published by NORC, University of Chicago.
"We are fooling ourselves if we imagine that we can ever make the authentic Gospel popular......it is too simple in an age of rationalism; too narrow in an age of pluralism; too humiliating in an age of self-confidence; too demanding in an age of permissiveness; and too unpatriotic in an age of blind nationalism." Rev. John R.W. Stott, CBE
There are people out there who believe other races to be inferior. Should their kids be "subjected to racial equality propaganda"?
