Is America the greatest country in the world?

[anotheratheisthere]

this post has two sections.

The fist half will just be a list of facts. Objetive statistical data from reputable and trustworthy sources such as the UN or the US DOS. they are in no particular order, I just added them as I found them.

The second half will be my interpretation of what these figures mean, and an invitation to discussion.

FACT: America is the industrialized country with the highest murder rate in the world. A higher rate than many third world countries.

FACT: America is the industrialized country with the highest rape rate in the world

FACT: America is the country with the highest incarceration rate in the world. more than China or Cuba. The percentage of people who are deprived of their freedom in America is greater than that in any other country, possibly in History.

FACT: We are the greatest exporters of weapons in the world.

FACT: Over the last 50 years, the US Government has killed more civilians than any other entity in the world.

FACT: 12 countries have a higher Quality of Life/Human Developement Index than the US.

FACT: We rank 38th in life expectancy.

FACT: We rank 48 in Infant Mortality, doing worse than Cuba.

FACT: We rank 19th in literacy. Below Cuba, Estonia, Latvia, Barbados, Slovenia, Lithuania, Armania, Hungary, Poland, Albania, Russia and more.

FACT: Our children rank in the bottom half amoung industrialized countries in math skills, scientific knowledge and problem solving skillls.

FACT: We have a larger percentage of people living below the poverty line than at least 7 countries, according to the CIA, and 12 countries according to the UN

FACT: We are the only industrialized country where people go bankrupt if they get sick

FACT: We are the only industrialized country where if you can't afford life saving surgery, you die.

FACT: We have more obese people per capita than any country in the world.

FACT: We have more obese people in the military per capita than any country in the world

FACT: We are ranked 37th in quality of healthcare

FACT: We spend more money per capita on healthcare than any country in the world.

FACT: We spend more money on war (aka "National Defense") than any other country. More than all countries in Europe combined.

FACT: We waste more energy per capita than any country in the world.

FACT: We drink more water per capita than any country in the world.

FACT: We are not number 1 in high school or college graduation rate

FACT: We are not the number 1 in post graduate degree issuance rate

FACT: We rank 20th in internet access as a percentage of the total population.

FACT: 14 countries have more Nobel recepients per capita than the US. Among the countries that beat us, 3 are third world countries.

FACT: We have the greatest income inequality in the civilized world. We are the only industrialized country in the world where the top 1% has more money than the bottom 95%. (South Africa beats us, but I am not sure if it counts as a developed nation)

FACT: We have the highest teen birth rate and teen abourtion rate in the undustrialized world. More than double that of most European countries.

FACT: 9 countries have more income per capita than the US. If you incorporate income inequality in the equation, or if you exclude the top 1% from the calculation, the median "Middle Class" American has lower income per capita than almost all European countries.

FACT: The average US Soldier has a lower net worth than the average soldier in 11 European countries.

FACT: We have one of the lowest voter turnout rate in the civilized world.

FACT: We have more serial killers per capita than any country in the world.

FACT: We have the greatest rate of pedophilia in the world.

FACT: In America, a lower percentage of people have a passport, or has ever visited a foreign country, than in any Eurpoean country.

FACT: Less people speak a 2nd language in America than in any country in Europe.

FACT: Less people know the name of their chief executive in America, than in any other European Country.

FACT: Less people know what form of Government their country has in America than anywhere in Europe.

FACT: THe US ranks 97th on the "Global Peace Index", which measures the peacefulness of a country.

FACT: 4 countries are rated Higher than the US on the Wall street Journal's "Index of Economic Freedom"

FACT: The US ranks 48th on the Press Freedom Index

FACT: The US has a higher suicide rate than 22 other countries

FACT: The US has more incest per capita than any industrialized country

FACT: The US ranks 151st on GDP Growth Rate, meaning 150 countries are getting richer at a faster rate than the US is.

FACT: The US ranks 30th in the Privacy Index, which determines the degree to which citizens are protected from corporate and governmental surveilance.

FACT: The US ranks 39th in the Environmental Performance Index, which measures the degree to which a country's policies avoids damaging the environment.

FACT: America is the only country in the civilized world where "Intelligent design" is actually taught in science classrooms.

FACT: America is the country in which the highest percentage of the population thinks Chrsitianity predates Judaism.

FACT: Among industrialized countries, America has the largest percentage of people who think the world is flat, largest percentage who think the world is literally 6000 years old, and largest percentage of people who think the sun orbits around the earth.

FACT: America is the country with the largest arsenal of nulear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction.

I don't know if I have much of a conclusion to make, except maybe this:

People who say "America is the greatest country in the world" are delusional.

I can understand a statement such as "I love my country more than anything in the world" because it's a subjective statement. I can even understand "America is a great country", or "America's creation (except for slavery and the genocide of native americans) was an amazing new experiment in democracy and freedom, which can be matched by no more than a half dozen similarly great phenomenons"

But a statement such as "America is the greatest country in the world" is an objective, quantifiable and demonstrably false statement.

One could say "America is the strongest military power in the world, although comunist China owns our ass economically, so military might doesn't really matter that much, since we couldn't get away with using it against anybody other than 3rd world countries".

One could say "America used to be the greatest country in the world, before Asia had emerged, and when Europe was still trying to rebuild itself after WWII", but how is that relevant to the current situation?

Ok, maybe I'm wrong. I'd LOVE TO be wrong. If somebody has a rational explanation for how America is the Greatest Country in the World, please let me know.

[JoeyKnothead]

ETA - I think LSD was discovered by a Swiss guy. I could be wrong.

LOL I fouled that up. I just always assumed it was created by hippies in '60s California.

Please remove LSD from the list*, and add cnorman18's excellent additions.

(*Please send all removed LSD to joeyknuccione, USA)

While LSD was discovered by a Swiss chemist, the LDS is a purely American invention.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Miles]

I am not your mommy, I am not your daddy, I am not your nanny and I am not your babysitter. I am not in the business of spoon feeding you.

My, my. I must have really hit a sore spot.* In any case, in as much as your ego has convinced you that everyone should take you at your word, I'll leave you to you and your adoring and fans, and simply watch from the side lines. As it stands, your OP is worthless.

* Of course we both know the real reason don't we: If ya can't deliver the goods it's because you have no goods to deliver.

Oh yes, not that it matters a wit to you, but for others here who may be wondering, proper protocol when using the work of others is to give them credit for it, or in the case of web sources, alternatively provide a link. And this means going beyond such lame attempts as, "the UN or the US DOS."

I'll grant the OP was poorly formed and even more poorly sourced, but that aside, do you have any grounds to contest the content?

I have no grounds for doing anything with it. Without citations or links it's a non-interest item.

Do you deny the US has fallen behind on things like quality of life, education, and health care when compared to other western democracies?

Perhaps we've fallen behind or they've simply caught up, but I think it's a combination of the two.

I personally find it galling that you on the one hand rip him for a lack of contribution when your own posts have done no better.

I didn't "rip him" for his lack of contribution, but for his lack of citations or links for his "facts." And just which of my posts didn't measure up to your expectations? If you're taking about source citation then I invite you to check them for quotes. The only one's that don't have a direct link are those I've taken from paper copy, in which case I've furnished the proper information, or in a few cases where I've used Wikipedia as a source but included no direct quotes: I simply cited Wikipedia as a source.

What have I done to be dismissed casually as "one of (his) fans"? If you disagree with my conclusions, challenge me on them. Ask me to source them. Provide an alternate point of view. Simply walking in and dismissing everyone who shares a certain viewpoint certainly is not conductive to debate, and doing so by linking all those who happen to agree on a certain position to one poorly constructed post brings with it a myriad of fallacies such as hasty generalization and style over substance.

You didn't enter my mind when I was constructing my answering anotheratheisthere; however, if you consider yourself to be one of his adoring fans then I urge you to not follow his posting style.

That said, I'll continue watching from the side lines, thank you.

[cnorman18]

...Joey is right. You can't debate how "great" America is - or how "great" ANYTHING is - until you define what you mean by "great" and establish that the facts, the measures you're using, are relevant to that definition. I don't really see a debate here at all, now that we've established that "America is the greatest country in the world" is not a factual claim, but a subjective opinion. I don't know what else there was to prove in the first place.

It remains really hard to see the point of this thread other than gratuitous and nonconstructive America-bashing...

I 'preciate that.

Johnny Cash, Elvis, Flatt & Scruggs.
Man on the Moon.
Twinkies.
Ford Mustang.
Smoky Mountains.
Baseball, football and basketball.
The Beverly Hillbillies.
LSD.
Jim Beam.

Why is my list not as relevant as the OP's?

In the end we all look to the data we consider most relevant in determining what is the "greatest".

You forgot Marilyn Monroe, Victoria's Secret and Frederick's of Hollywood.

(You know, I went into Victoria's Secret the other day and saw that they're selling sweatshirts in there now. That's just wrong...)

ETA - I think LSD was discovered by a Swiss guy. I could be wrong.

LOL I fouled that up. I just always assumed it was created by hippies in '60s California.

Please remove LSD from the list*, and add cnorman18's excellent additions.

(*Please send all removed LSD to joeyknuccione, USA)

Well, as long as we're doing this, and since anotheratheisthere isn't going to object, here are a few more:

Jack Daniel's

Dodge Hemis

Blue Jeans

Banjos

Striptease

Big Bud, Northern Lights, OG Kush, etc. - all products of the Pacific Northwest

Baseball

Soft toilet paper (Anyone who's been to Britain knows what I mean)

Hamburgers

Kentucky Fried Chicken

Disco (well, they can't all be great)

Repeating firearms (which have been called the single most important invention of the 19th century)

Free public education (Everyone forgets that one)

Airplanes

Memphis or Texas barbecue

Mass-produced cars

Mass-produced anything

Comic strips

Milkshakes

Rock and Roll

Moccasins

Dr Pepper

Basketball

Foreign Aid (hello! - any bets on what country provides the most to other nations?)

Oprah Winfrey

Bill Gates

Stephen Spielberg

Bob Hope

Steve Wozniak

Robin Williams

George Carlin

many more

Chicken Fried Steak

...and I've hardly started.

[McCulloch]

Basketball

Basketball was invented by a Canadian, Dr. James Naismith.

[McCulloch]

Per capita rates are relevant how?

Unless you wish to claim that McDonald's is the greatest restaurant, then yes per capita rates are relevant. The fact that the US has 100 times more immigrants than Denmark does not indicate that the US is a more desirable destination.

Not to be egregiously dense, but why on Earth not?

If more people want to vacation in Tahiti than Beirut, doesn't that mean it's a more desirable place? More people "desire" it = "more desirable."

Doesn't mean it's "the best country in the world," but it does mean that more people want to come here than want to go to Denmark. I don't see how the population of the country people are moving into is relevant to that measure at all, any more than its area in square kilometers would be.

But you cannot measure how many want to get in. You can only measure how many get in. Both Canada and the USA have many more people wanting to come than are allowed in. Each of our countries take in as many as we feel we can benefit from. That number is restrained by our total population.

[cnorman18]

Per capita rates are relevant how?

Unless you wish to claim that McDonald's is the greatest restaurant, then yes per capita rates are relevant. The fact that the US has 100 times more immigrants than Denmark does not indicate that the US is a more desirable destination.

Not to be egregiously dense, but why on Earth not?

If more people want to vacation in Tahiti than Beirut, doesn't that mean it's a more desirable place? More people "desire" it = "more desirable."

Doesn't mean it's "the best country in the world," but it does mean that more people want to come here than want to go to Denmark. I don't see how the population of the country people are moving into is relevant to that measure at all, any more than its area in square kilometers would be.

But you cannot measure how many want to get in. You can only measure how many get in. Both Canada and the USA have many more people wanting to come than are allowed in. Each of our countries take in as many as we feel we can benefit from. That number is restrained by our total population.

There are few restraints on legal immigration into the US now. When quotas were dropped in 2006, that was the year that 37.5 million immigrated here. That includes illegal immigration, by the way, which makes the issue of legal restraints irrelevant. Illegal immigration, in effect, is not restrained by anything. Besides, if it's easier to get into another country for whatever reason, shouldn't that be to that nation's credit? If a nation's immigration rate is restricted by that nation's laws, why should that be an excuse for a low immigration rate? That is the law's intent.

Further: Perhaps you missed this, but one of my references did inarguably measure exactlly that; how many want to get in. Let me repost it here:

"Recent surveys by Gallup found roughly 700 million adults would like to migrate to another country permanently if they had the chance. The United States is the top desired destination country." ("700 Million Worldwide Desire to Migrate Permanently". Gallup.com, http://www.gallup.com/poll/124028/700-M ... ently.aspx)

[McCulloch]

"Recent surveys by Gallup found roughly 700 million adults would like to migrate to another country permanently if they had the chance. The United States is the top desired destination country." ("700 Million Worldwide Desire to Migrate Permanently". Gallup.com, http://www.gallup.com/poll/124028/700-M ... ently.aspx)

I then concede, like McDonald's, the USA has the greatest marketing in the world.

[cnorman18]

"Recent surveys by Gallup found roughly 700 million adults would like to migrate to another country permanently if they had the chance. The United States is the top desired destination country." ("700 Million Worldwide Desire to Migrate Permanently". Gallup.com, http://www.gallup.com/poll/124028/700-M ... ently.aspx)

I then concede, like McDonald's, the USA has the greatest marketing in the world.

Yeah - it's so good it overwhelms all the "America is Evil" marketing campaigns out there. Funny, I thought world opinion was pretty much unanimous in judging that the most dangerous and pernicious countries in the world were America and Israel. Seems to have been an axiomatic point of faith on the far left, at least till the last election. The far right, of course - the REAL far right - regards America and Israel as being run by the same cabal of wealthy Jews.

Can you document the "marketing" of America? Of what does it consist? The fact that America makes lots of movies that are seen worldwide? Were those made to encourage immigration? American economic dominance? I don't think the point of that is to encourage immigration, either.

Maybe it's just that the facts about opportunity and freedom of choice in America make it attractive to people who don't have those where they live. Marketing? Maybe. But as some saleman observed somewhere, some products market themselves.

[McCulloch]

Funny, I thought world opinion was pretty much unanimous in judging that the most dangerous and pernicious countries in the world were America and Israel.

I thought that Somalia had that honour.

Can you document the "marketing" of America? Of what does it consist?

I don't know. But it does seem rather effective.

The fact that America makes lots of movies that are seen worldwide? Were those made to encourage immigration? American economic dominance? I don't think the point of that is to encourage immigration, either.

Encouraging immigration would be a side-effect of the marketing program not its goal.

Maybe it's just that the facts about opportunity and freedom of choice in America make it attractive to people who don't have those where they live. Marketing? Maybe. But as some saleman observed somewhere, some products market themselves.

Over two hundred years ago, the opportunities and freedoms in the USA were a novel feature guaranteed by the American constitution. Since then, other countries have caught up.

[Abraxas]

Why are we assuming that the idea that the US is the greatest country in the world is not held literally by those profess it? I would fully expect that if you were to do a poll of people who say "the US is the greatest country in the world" you would find they mean and believe literally that.

Frankly, what people believe about the country, or even that people come here, is not indicative of how the country actually is, it is an indicator of what our reputation is. During the 50s into the 70s, we might have actually lived up to the hype. The best schools, plentiful jobs, top innovators, the dream of owning a house and raising a family within reach of the average person. Despite that none of these things apply any longer, people remember what we were and act as though it is still true, both within the US and outside.