What's good for the Nazi works for a jihadi

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cnorman18

What's good for the Nazi works for a jihadi

Post #1

Post by cnorman18 »

Op-ed in today's Washington Times
Marvin Hier and Abraham Cooper wrote:

What's good for the Nazi works for a jihadi

President Obama was right when he declared after convening the post mortem on the Detroit debacle that "we have to do better." The simple fact is that $42 billion later, Americans do not feel much safer getting on an airplane than they did eight years ago. Despite the post- Sept. 11 upgrades in security, despite the long lines, the inconveniences of removing shoes and belts and coming soon to an airport near you - full body scans - we are not reassured that the next disaster is not lurking just around the corner. People are concerned we aren't doing enough to fight the enemy and we're still not sure we've fully identified the enemy.

The administration and its Republican critics are still arguing whether Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's Ft. Hood massacre constitutes an act of terrorism. That dispute is reflected in a larger debate of whether we are still in a "war against terror" and whether individuals like Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab should be treated as enemy combatants or read their Miranda Rights as common criminals.

But however that debate shakes out, there is an important move, that would cost little but could strike a blow against extremism and make our skies a little safer: The president admitted that the current watch list is inadequate. But America needs to immediately expand its terrorist watch list. Consider this fact: While the United States has a database of 500,000 individuals implicated in criminal activity, only 1,700 of those names are on the terrorist watch list banning entry into the United States. Compare that to the watch list developed by the U.S. Justice Department of suspected Nazi war criminals. Developed in the 1980s, 40,000 individuals were initially listed, but later the list expanded beyond 70,000 when the Office of Special Investigations on Nazi War Crimes (OSI) included the entire roster of the Nazi SS - and all others who belonged to groups that abetted genocide.

Most of those aging genociders are in their 80s or 90s today and the hunt for Nazi war criminals will soon reach its biological solution. But not so Islamist terrorism - only in its genesis - which is the scourge of all humanity at the dawn of the new decade. It is inconceivable that in fighting the existential threat of terrorism, that we can be operating with a list of only 1,700 people to bar from entering the United States. To better protect the flying public and to strike a blow against extremists who today regularly indescriminantly slaughter fellow Muslims, the Department of Homeland Security should take a page from the Nazi watch list and immediately add those who openly support and abet terrorism. In practical terms, it means immediately listing the many thousands of names of all known members and enablers of Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Indonesia's Jemmah Islamiyah and other terror groups listed by the State Department and the European Union.

And there are others who never fired a bullet, or strapped themselves to a ticking bomb, who nevertheless deserve to be publicly placed on America's terror watch list. They include Al Jazeera's Sheik Yusuf Qaradawi, whose online fatwa insists that Palestinian women have the right to attain martyrdom by blowing themselves up amidst Israelis. There is Omar Bakri Muhammad, who once claimed to be a recruiter for al Qaeda and organized the "Magnificent 19" (Sept. 11 bombers) in London. Jordan's Dr. Ibrahim Zayd Al-Kilani, who said this: "killing a transgressing American soldier" is an obligation and a kind of jihad. There are the followers of Indonesia's notorious Abu Bakar Bashir, Jamaica's Abdullah el-Faisel, and Libyan-born Abu Yaha al- Libi, who defends the "legitimacy" of violent jihad as a "religious obligation." And of course, Yemen's favorite American Anwar al-Awlaki who served as spiritual mentor and validator to Ft. Hood's Maj. Hasan and the Northwest Airlines terrorist.

We have no doubts that a simple e-mail to all U.S. embassies by Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton would flush out many more terror enablers. To be sure, errors will be made and anyone who stands accused of such activity must be given recourse to clear their names. It may also be true that not everyone who belongs to a terrorist group will become a suicide bomber, but let them suffer the consequences - why should Americans have to take that risk?

By compiling a true terror watch list, the United States and allies will reassure the shaken flying public that no one committed to terrorism against innocent civilians is aboard their flight. Such a policy will also help strengthen the hand of moderates across the Arab and Muslim world struggling against these extremists. And by providing the guardians of our borders with accurate and timely information about all those who promote and deploy terrorism against our nation, we can help co-opt the need to turn to blanket racial and ethnic profiling.

The time to act is now.


Rabbi Marvin Hier is the founder and dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Rabbi Abraham Cooper is associate dean of the Center.

It's hard to see how anyone of any religion or any political persuasion could disagree with this.

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Post #31

Post by DeBunkem »

:harass: I just wiped out half an hour's reply. So this time I'll just mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki as proof of deliberate civilian targeting. It comes down to justifying this policy. The Pentagon is better at this they are lying about the ME My Lais commited to protect our freedoms (to buy cheap gas).
Imperialism and its evils are old history, and our sorry embrace of it has been criticized from the beginning by good Americans, including military men. Much more valid than the Heritage Foundation and other Military-Industrialist propagandists. Oh, and how's that search for Iraq's WMDs going for ya, gang? :D
Ergo:
A standing army is one of the greatest mischief that
can possibly happen: James Madison: US fourth
president, 1751-1836

"Over grown military establishments are under any
form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to
be regarded as particularly hostile to republican
liberty." (George Washington)

I was a bombadier in WW 2. When you are up 30,000 feet
you do not hear the screams or smell the blood or see
those without limbs or eyes. It was not til I read
Hersey's Hiroshima that I realized what bomber pilots
do: Howard Zinn

"From 1945 to 2003, the United States attempted to
overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to
crush more than 30 populist-nationalist movements
fighting against intolerable regimes. In the process,
the US bombed some 25 countries, caused the end of
life for several million people, and condemned many
millions more to a life of agony and despair."
William Blum

"[American leaders] are perhaps not so much immoral as
they are amoral. It's not that they take pleasure in
causing so much death and suffering. It's that they
just don't care ... the same that could be said about
a sociopath. As long as the death and suffering
advance the agenda of the empire, as long as the right
people and the right corporations gain wealth and
power and privilege and prestige, as long as the death
and suffering aren't happening to them or people close
to them ... then they just don't care about it
happening to other people,
including the American soldiers whom they throw into
wars and who come home - the ones who make it back
alive - with Agent Orange or Gulf War Syndrome eating
away at their bodies. (unknown)

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Post #32

Post by JoeyKnothead »

From Post 31:
DeBunkem wrote: I just wiped out half an hour's reply. So this time I'll just mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki as proof of deliberate civilian targeting.
That happened too long ago to address the policies currently in place.
DeBunkem wrote: It comes down to justifying this policy. The Pentagon is better at this they are lying about the ME My Lais commited to protect our freedoms (to buy cheap gas).
I consider your continued reference to My Lais as holding onto the past (for all the right reasons). That was then, this is now - but even still, folks were prosecuted (though only one was convicted) for that event.

I don't think it's the Pentagon lying so much as it was the Bush administration lying.
DeBunkem wrote: Imperialism and its evils are old history, and our sorry embrace of it has been criticized from the beginning by good Americans, including military men.
You imply only those who agree with you on this point are "good", and that's too simplistic for my tastes, regardless of my agreeing with you.
DeBunkem wrote: Much more valid than the Heritage Foundation and other Military-Industrialist propagandists. Oh, and how's that search for Iraq's WMDs going for ya, gang?
That search is long past over. Now it's one of rebuilding a country we invaded on false pretexts.

I point out Bush made the decision to invade, and the Pentagon was under his command. It was Bush and his administration that set the policies regarding the invasion of Iraq.

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Post #33

Post by JoeyKnothead »

East of Eden wrote:
joeyknuccione wrote: I'd need more data for the oppression angle, and consider there's perspectives involved.
From Wikipedia:

In its 2004 report on Human Rights Practices, the U.S. Department of State characterized Vietnam’s human rights record as “poor� and cited the continuation of “serious abuses.� According to the report, the government has imposed restrictions on freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of association.

Citizens are denied the right to change their government. The government continues to hold political prisoners who have expressed views at odds with government policy. Prison conditions are generally “harsh, but not unduly so given the country's level of economic development,� according to the State Department assessment. Vietnam has no independent judiciary, and there is no right to a fair and speedy trial. Human rights organizations are not permitted to operate. Discrimination against women and ethnic minorities, child labor, and prostitution are serious problems. The government is attempting to address the child labor issue.

The government officially provides for freedom of religion and recognizes Buddhist, Roman Catholic, Protestant, Hoa Hao, Cao Dai, and Muslim denominations. However, non-sanctioned groups, including branches of even the recognized denominations, face harassment. Furthermore, the government insists on supervising the clergies of the sanctioned groups (by approving appointments, for example)[1] in the interest of “national unity.� In April 2004, 20,000 to 30,000 members of the Montagnard ethnic minority gathered to protest for the return of their ancestral lands in the Central Highlands and an end to religious repression. Human Rights Watch alleges that hundreds of demonstrators were wounded and at least 10 killed in a clash with Vietnamese officials and civilians[citation needed]. The Vietnamese government is concerned that the Montagnards are seeking an independent state.

As a result of the state oppression there has been an underground human-rights movement in Vietnam supported by the Unified Buddhist Church of Vietnam. Because of this the buddhist monk Thích Quảng �ộ was awarded the Rafto Human Rights Prize on 21 September 2006 for his long time work for democracy in Vietnam. He has been in prison several times, a total of 25 years, because of his struggle for human-rights. Other well-known current and former political prisoners include Pham Hong Son, Nguyen Khac Toan, Nguyen Van Ly, Phan Van Ban, Nguyen Chi Thien and Nguyen Van Dai.
That's oppression.

My point about perspective was countered by the "Human rights organizations are not permitted to operate" point alone, much less the other data. Who fears human rights organizations except those opposed to human rights?

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Post #34

Post by East of Eden »

DeBunkem wrote::harass: I just wiped out half an hour's reply. So this time I'll just mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki as proof of deliberate civilian targeting. It comes down to justifying this policy.
I'll justify Hiroshima and Nagasake: the estimates are the alternate plan to invade Japan would have cost a million US casaulties and several million Japanese ones. Would you prefer that scenario?
The Pentagon is better at this they are lying about the ME My Lais commited to protect our freedoms (to buy cheap gas).
Imperialism and its evils are old history, and our sorry embrace of it has been criticized from the beginning by good Americans, including military men. Much more valid than the Heritage Foundation and other Military-Industrialist propagandists. Oh, and how's that search for Iraq's WMDs going for ya, gang?
That was one reason for the invasion. The other's were the human rights abuses and Saddam's support for international terror: http://www.husseinandterror.com/ There is very little Bush said about WMDs that wasn't echoed by big-name Democrats. It was a bipartison decision to invade.
A standing army is one of the greatest mischief that
can possibly happen: James Madison: US fourth
president, 1751-1836
You want us to abolish our military? The Islamofascists would like that also.
"Over grown military establishments are under any
form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to
be regarded as particularly hostile to republican
liberty." (George Washington)

I was a bombadier in WW 2. When you are up 30,000 feet
you do not hear the screams or smell the blood or see
those without limbs or eyes. It was not til I read
Hersey's Hiroshima that I realized what bomber pilots
do: Howard Zinn
I'd say Mr. Zinn was a bit naive.
"From 1945 to 2003, the United States attempted to
overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to
crush more than 30 populist-nationalist movements
fighting against intolerable regimes. In the process,
the US bombed some 25 countries, caused the end of
life for several million people, and condemned many
millions more to a life of agony and despair."
William Blum
I wish the US had overthrown the democratically elected government of Adolph Hitler. Do you?

You and Osama Bin Laden think alike on not liking the US military and being William Blum fans:

"An unexpected endorsement from al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden has resulted in a huge jump in sales for a book by a critic of US foreign policy.

William Blum's Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower was ranked 209,000 on Amazon.com's sales list before bin Laden mentioned it in an audiotape released on Thursday.

By on Friday, the book was number 30 on the Amazon.com list.

Bin Laden said al-Qaeda was preparing more attacks in the United States but also told Americans, "it is useful for you to read the book, The Rogue State".

"I was quite surprised and even shocked and amused when I found out what he'd said," Blum said in an interview in his Washington apartment.

"I was glad. I knew it would help the book's sales and I was not bothered by who it was coming from."


I've long known there was an affinity between the Islamfascists and the America-hating nut left.
"We are fooling ourselves if we imagine that we can ever make the authentic Gospel popular......it is too simple in an age of rationalism; too narrow in an age of pluralism; too humiliating in an age of self-confidence; too demanding in an age of permissiveness; and too unpatriotic in an age of blind nationalism." Rev. John R.W. Stott, CBE

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Post #35

Post by DeBunkem »

May I suggest the "absurdism" forum. None of your responses deserve a rational reply, and are tailored per NeoCon training camp to direct attention away from the reality of Imperialist outrages onto Ann Coulter style ad hominem bufoonery.


DeBunkem wrote:
I'll justify Hiroshima and Nagasake: the estimates are the alternate plan to invade Japan would have cost a million US casaulties and several million Japanese ones. Would you prefer that scenario?
The US military lies. Didn't you learn that after the WMD scandal, the Gulf of Tonkin, , well, no, cons don't think history is relevant, do they?
Quote:
The Pentagon is better at this they are lying about the ME My Lais commited to protect our freedoms (to buy cheap gas).
Imperialism and its evils are old history, and our sorry embrace of it has been criticized from the beginning by good Americans, including military men. Much more valid than the Heritage Foundation and other Military-Industrialist propagandists. Oh, and how's that search for Iraq's WMDs going for ya, gang?
That was one reason for the invasion. The other's were the human rights abuses and Saddam's support for international terror: http://www.husseinandterror.com/ There is very little Bush said about WMDs that wasn't echoed by big-name Democrats. It was a bipartison decision to invade.
No, there were the biochemicals "Winnebagos of Death," the "terrorist" jetliner mockups, the "Mushroom cloud." Human rights? Why weren;t you concerned about Hussein's human rights abuses when he was Poppy Bush's pal? There were even worse back then. And he invaded Iran with Bush's blessing. Big brass Pentagon always has to throw some solid American-sounding words like freedom and democracy for their predatory actions. same as any abuser. "They needed freedom so we had to kill them."
Quote:
A standing army is one of the greatest mischief that
can possibly happen: James Madison: US fourth
president, 1751-1836
You want us to abolish our military? The Islamofascists would like that also.
A defensive Army would be just fine. We don't need to garrison the globe to do that. "Islamofascist" is a Dr. Seuss/Fox word that makes as much sense as IslamoChristians. Fascism originated in christendom

Quote:
"Over grown military establishments are under any
form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to
be regarded as particularly hostile to republican
liberty." (George Washington)

I was a bombadier in WW 2. When you are up 30,000 feet
you do not hear the screams or smell the blood or see
those without limbs or eyes. It was not til I read
Hersey's Hiroshima that I realized what bomber pilots
do: Howard Zinn
I'd say Mr. Zinn was a bit naive.
I'd say Mr. Zinn knew what he was talking about. Where have you ever come that close to combat?

Quote:
"From 1945 to 2003, the United States attempted to
overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to
crush more than 30 populist-nationalist movements
fighting against intolerable regimes. In the process,
the US bombed some 25 countries, caused the end of
life for several million people, and condemned many
millions more to a life of agony and despair."
William Blum
I wish the US had overthrown the democratically elected government of Adolph Hitler. Do you?
Judging from your last two statements, it is apparent that you are probably a middle schooler on history. As a matter of fact we did overthrow Hitler...it was called WWII.
You and Osama Bin Laden think alike on not liking the US military and being William Blum fans:

"An unexpected endorsement from al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden has resulted in a huge jump in sales for a book by a critic of US foreign policy.

William Blum's Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower was ranked 209,000 on Amazon.com's sales list before bin Laden mentioned it in an audiotape released on Thursday.

By on Friday, the book was number 30 on the Amazon.com list.

Bin Laden said al-Qaeda was preparing more attacks in the United States but also told Americans, "it is useful for you to read the book, The Rogue State".

"I was quite surprised and even shocked and amused when I found out what he'd said," Blum said in an interview in his Washington apartment.

"I was glad. I knew it would help the book's sales and I was not bothered by who it was coming from."


I've long known there was an affinity between the Islamfascists and the America-hating nut left.
OBL passes gas, too. Do you? You're a Islamofascist, obviously. Quite to be expected from the Constitution-hating gun-hugging, KKK right.

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Post #36

Post by JoeyKnothead »

From Post 35:
DeBunkem wrote: May I suggest the "absurdism" forum. None of your responses deserve a rational reply, and are tailored per NeoCon training camp to direct attention away from the reality of Imperialist outrages onto Ann Coulter style ad hominem bufoonery
I think you could learn a lesson about "ad hominem bufoonery", given your lead-in to that part.

It's obvious to me any dialogue will only upset you further.

You win by virtue of insulting or slandering those you seek to engage.

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Post #37

Post by East of Eden »

DeBunkem wrote:May I suggest the "absurdism" forum. None of your responses deserve a rational reply, and are tailored per NeoCon training camp to direct attention away from the reality of Imperialist outrages onto Ann Coulter style ad hominem bufoonery.
Whether my responses deserve a rational reply, you've already shown youself to be incapable of giving one.

DeBunkem wrote:
The US military lies.
The rest of government does to, which is why need to be skeptical of it.
Didn't you learn that after the WMD scandal,
Learn the differnce between lies and bad intel. Were these people liars too?


Democrat Quotes on Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

A defensive Army would be just fine. We don't need to garrison the globe to do that. "Islamofascist" is a Dr. Seuss/Fox word that makes as much sense as IslamoChristians. Fascism originated in christendom
Sorry, I'm not as familiar with Dr. Suess as you. Radical Islam is as much an expansionist fascist political movement as it is a religion. Christendom is generally capitalized, and you're wrong on that point, as usual.
I'd say Mr. Zinn knew what he was talking about. Where have you ever come that close to combat?
You don't need combat experience to know the purpose of the military is to kill people and break things.
Judging from your last two statements, it is apparent that you are probably a middle schooler on history.
Actually I minored in history in college.
As a matter of fact we did overthrow Hitler...it was called WWII.
No kidding, Einstein. I was thinking it would have been better to overthrow him about 1940 with an assasin's bullet.
OBL passes gas, too. Do you?
If you think that's the equivalent of you and OBL admiring the same author, it really is a waste of time having a discussion with you.
You're a Islamofascist, obviously. Quite to be expected from the Constitution-hating gun-hugging, KKK right.
Keep babbling, you've already demonstrated you have more in common with OBL than with normal America. Truly your type are the enemy within.
"We are fooling ourselves if we imagine that we can ever make the authentic Gospel popular......it is too simple in an age of rationalism; too narrow in an age of pluralism; too humiliating in an age of self-confidence; too demanding in an age of permissiveness; and too unpatriotic in an age of blind nationalism." Rev. John R.W. Stott, CBE

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Post #38

Post by McCulloch »

DeBunkem wrote: As a matter of fact we did overthrow Hitler...it was called WWII.
Just a quick historical interjection. The US military did not overthrow Hitler. His own really bad tactical decision to turn on his one-time ally, the Soviet Union sealed his fate. The USA entered the war against Hitler, only after being directly attacked by Hitler's ally, Japan and only entered the war in Europe to prevent Soviet domination of that continent. The war in Europe had been going since September 1, 1939, yet the USA did not declare until December 11, 1941.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Mea Culpa

Post #39

Post by DeBunkem »

I break my own rules about engaging with those who use ad hominem and the inevitable result....I get dragged down and do the same. I admit it's a vice I struggle with...like drinking too much. But I don't concede anything else. In fact, for what it's worth (probably as much as Pentagon denials and platitudes) I came across this statement about what triggers "jihad," and it is not the mere existence of other religions, but their agression against Muslim nations:

Clerics in Yemen warn of jihad if US sends troops

By AHMED AL-HAJ, Associated Press Writer Ahmed Al-haj, Associated Press Writer
1 hr 52 mins ago

SAN'A, Yemen – A group of prominent Muslim clerics warned Thursday they will call for jihad, or holy war, if the U.S. sends troops to fight al-Qaida in Yemen.

The group of 15 clergymen includes the highly influential Sheik Abdul-Majid al-Zindani, whom the U.S. has branded a spiritual mentor of Osama bin-Laden but who is also courted by the Yemeni government for his important backing.

The clerics' warning goes straight to the Yemeni government's dilemma in cooperating with Washington against an al-Qaida offshoot in the country. In doing so, Yemen's weak regime must avoid upsetting al-Zindani and other radical Islamic figures whose support it needs to stay in power.

"If any foreign country insists on aggression and the invasion of the country or interference, in a military or security way, Muslim sons are duty bound to carry out jihad and fight the aggressors," the clerics said in a statement.


President Barack Obama has said he does not plan to send American combat troops to Yemen, though Washington is increasing counterterrorism aid and training to Yemeni forces to battle al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula.

Concern about the growing capabilities of Yemen's al-Qaida offshoot increased after the failed attempt to bomb a U.S. airliner shortly before it landed in Detroit on Dec. 25. U.S. investigators say the Nigerian suspect in the failed attack told them he received training and instructions from al-Qaida operatives in Yemen.

The group of clerics also said they believe an international conference on Yemen to be held Jan. 27 in London is intended to clear the way for the Arab country's occupation by foreign nations. The conference is to be attended by the United States and European countries.

The group is from the Yemeni Clerics Association, headed by al-Zindani, whom the United States considers an al-Qaida-linked terrorist.

Yemeni authorities on Thursday increased security in some areas of the capital, San'a, in an attempt to hunt al-Qaida suspects who escaped a raid this week in the southern province of Shabwa.

The Ministry of Interior warned people not to shelter the suspects.

On Wednesday, Yemeni security forces killed a suspected militant who was on a government list of wanted al-Qaida figures and arrested four others in a raid on a house in the remote mountainous province.

Yemen has stepped up its operations against al-Qaida in recent weeks with help from the United States, which has increased funding and training for Yemen's security forces. Washington says al-Qaida's offshoot in the impoverished country on the edge of the Arabian Peninsula has become a global threat after it allegedly plotted the Dec. 25 bomb attempt.

Yemen's government has little control over large swaths of the mountainous nation. Powerful, well-armed tribes dominate extensive areas and bitterly resent intrusion by security forces. Young Yemenis who join al-Qaida — or are simply swayed by Islamic extremist ideology — often get support from their fellow tribesmen.

http://tinyurl.com/yfh6gp6


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As for Heritage Foundation, Fox News, and similar corporate mouthpieces that support the status quo:
Anyone who has the power to make you believe
absurdities has the power to make you commit
injustices." - Voltaire, 1767
:flamed:

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East of Eden
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Re: Mea Culpa

Post #40

Post by East of Eden »

DeBunkem wrote:I break my own rules about engaging with those who use ad hominem and the inevitable result....I get dragged down and do the same. I admit it's a vice I struggle with...like drinking too much. But I don't concede anything else. In fact, for what it's worth (probably as much as Pentagon denials and platitudes) I came across this statement about what triggers "jihad," and it is not the mere existence of other religions, but their agression against Muslim nations:

Clerics in Yemen warn of jihad if US sends troops

By AHMED AL-HAJ, Associated Press Writer Ahmed Al-haj, Associated Press Writer
1 hr 52 mins ago

SAN'A, Yemen – A group of prominent Muslim clerics warned Thursday they will call for jihad, or holy war, if the U.S. sends troops to fight al-Qaida in Yemen.

The group of 15 clergymen includes the highly influential Sheik Abdul-Majid al-Zindani, whom the U.S. has branded a spiritual mentor of Osama bin-Laden but who is also courted by the Yemeni government for his important backing.

The clerics' warning goes straight to the Yemeni government's dilemma in cooperating with Washington against an al-Qaida offshoot in the country. In doing so, Yemen's weak regime must avoid upsetting al-Zindani and other radical Islamic figures whose support it needs to stay in power.

"If any foreign country insists on aggression and the invasion of the country or interference, in a military or security way, Muslim sons are duty bound to carry out jihad and fight the aggressors," the clerics said in a statement.


President Barack Obama has said he does not plan to send American combat troops to Yemen, though Washington is increasing counterterrorism aid and training to Yemeni forces to battle al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula.

Concern about the growing capabilities of Yemen's al-Qaida offshoot increased after the failed attempt to bomb a U.S. airliner shortly before it landed in Detroit on Dec. 25. U.S. investigators say the Nigerian suspect in the failed attack told them he received training and instructions from al-Qaida operatives in Yemen.

The group of clerics also said they believe an international conference on Yemen to be held Jan. 27 in London is intended to clear the way for the Arab country's occupation by foreign nations. The conference is to be attended by the United States and European countries.

The group is from the Yemeni Clerics Association, headed by al-Zindani, whom the United States considers an al-Qaida-linked terrorist.

Yemeni authorities on Thursday increased security in some areas of the capital, San'a, in an attempt to hunt al-Qaida suspects who escaped a raid this week in the southern province of Shabwa.

The Ministry of Interior warned people not to shelter the suspects.

On Wednesday, Yemeni security forces killed a suspected militant who was on a government list of wanted al-Qaida figures and arrested four others in a raid on a house in the remote mountainous province.

Yemen has stepped up its operations against al-Qaida in recent weeks with help from the United States, which has increased funding and training for Yemen's security forces. Washington says al-Qaida's offshoot in the impoverished country on the edge of the Arabian Peninsula has become a global threat after it allegedly plotted the Dec. 25 bomb attempt.

Yemen's government has little control over large swaths of the mountainous nation. Powerful, well-armed tribes dominate extensive areas and bitterly resent intrusion by security forces. Young Yemenis who join al-Qaida — or are simply swayed by Islamic extremist ideology — often get support from their fellow tribesmen.

http://tinyurl.com/yfh6gp6


Copyright © 2010 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.Questions or CommentsPrivacy PolicyAbout Our AdsTerms of ServiceCopyright/IP Policy
To the extreme left, its always America's fault. Jihad was around long before the USA. What triggers it is the existance of us 'infidels'. Muhammad said, "I was ordered to fight all men until they say, 'There is no god but Allah.' This is consistent with the Koran (9:5) 'Slay the idolators whereever ye find them, and take them captive, and beseige them, and prepare for them each ambush."
As for Heritage Foundation, Fox News, and similar corporate mouthpieces that support the status quo:
Anyone who has the power to make you believe
absurdities has the power to make you commit
injustices." - Voltaire, 1767
:flamed:
That would certainly apply to William Blum.
"We are fooling ourselves if we imagine that we can ever make the authentic Gospel popular......it is too simple in an age of rationalism; too narrow in an age of pluralism; too humiliating in an age of self-confidence; too demanding in an age of permissiveness; and too unpatriotic in an age of blind nationalism." Rev. John R.W. Stott, CBE

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