Does the Bible teach free will?

[SpiritQuickens]

I personally hate the word "Calvinism." I just find it really ugly. However, as a Bible-believing Christian, I think the predestinarian soteriology rediscovered my the Reformers (having been taught earlier by guys like Augustine, Gottschalk, Wycliffe, Huss) is Biblical. Man does not have free will as traditionally understood, but God determines who will be saved. I'm going to give an account of why I believe this, and I'd like to hear the opinions of Christians who believe in free will, and also non-theists. I'm not going to go into TULIP, but I'd like to simply address the passages which I think explicitly teach unconditional election (God determines who will be saved based on nothing about that person).

"For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image


Shalom M. Paul (a Jewish commentator) writes in the Hermeneia commentary on the Book of Amos 3:2:

“Most significant is the way in which the tie between Israel and the Lord is expressed…The verb…signifies an emotional and experiential relationship between the two and has the meaning “to select, to choose.� Compare, for example, Gen 18:19; Exod 33:12, 17; Deut. 9:24; Jer. 1:5; Hos 13:5. “Only you�…note the placing of the direct object before the verb for emphasis – “have I chosen.�-page 101

One of the passages I find most interesting is Genesis 18:19:

"For I have chosen [known] him, [Abraham] that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing righteousness and justice, so that the LORD may bring to ABraham what He has promised him."

God chooses Abraham so that he can lead a righteous life - the relationship is clearly causal. Abraham's obedience results in rewards, but what results in the ability to obey God, is...well...God. This apparent paradox is found throughout Scripture (sometimes explicitly, sometimes implicitly) in the form of God's sovereignty juxtaposed with man's responsibility:

“12 …work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.�-Philippians 2:12-13
"Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go in to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may show these signs of mine among them, and that you may tell in the hearing of your son and of your grandson how I have dealt harshly with the Egyptians and what signs I have done among them, that you may know that I am the LORD." So Moses and Aaron went in to Pharaoh and said to him, "Thus says the LORD, the God of the HEbrews, 'How long will you refuse to humble yourself before me? Let my people go, that they may serve me. For if you refuse to let My people go, behold, tomorrow I will bring locusts into your country..."-Exodus 10:1-4

Pharaoh is clearly portrayed as incapable of obeying God's command, even though a divine hardening directly preceded it.

"12 But to all who did receive Him, who believe in His name, He gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."-John 1:12-13

""Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves know - 23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men."-Acts 2:22-23

Here we once again have God's sovereignty juxtaposed with man's responsibility. And we also have that word "foreknowledge." What does Peter mean here? Does he mean that God not only foreordained what would happen, but also knew what would happen? This seems kind of redundant. Of course God knew what would happen if He foreordained it. Is there a better explanation of what is meant here by foreknowledge?

God's predetermined plan refers to God's plan to have Jesus delivered up and killed. The object of God's foreknowledge is Jesus. As in the Old Testament, for God to (fore)know someone means that He has chosen them for something in such a way that involves having an intimate relationship with them. That Peter should use such language of Jesus is unsurprising, since he does so elsewhere:

"He [Jesus] was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times..."-1 Peter 1:20

I don't think that anyone, “Calvinist� or non-, argues that God the Father knew beforehand that Jesus would obey Him and chose Him based on that. As in the Old Testament (and the New) our author is clearly telling us that God the Father chose Jesus. In the beginning of this same letter, Peter similarly associates foreknowledge with election:

"To those who are elect exiles...according to the foreknowledge of God the Father..."-1 Peter 1:1-2

We have our answer regarding how Peter uses the word foreknowledge. In Romans 8:29 and 1 Peter 1:20, God's foreknowledge is associated with His election, but there are times, for example, here in 1 Peter 1:20, and elsewhere, when the distinction virtually collapses. To be foreknown IS to be chosen. Notice the striking similarity in the wording between 1 Peter 1:20 and Ephesians 1:4:

"...even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him."-

One is foreknown before the foundation of the world, the other is chosen before the foundation of the world - but both mean the exact same thing. Romans 8:29, which associates foreknowledge with election (the former precedes the latter) seems to be specifying precisely what being chosen by God (read: foreknown) entails for the believer (Paul specifies that it entails being predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son..."). Christians are sons of God (Romans 8:14, 29). Jesus is foreknown (chosen) by God as a sacrifice for us so that we can also become sons of God. He is our firstborn brothers (8:29). 1 Peter 1:20 clearly relates back to 1 Peter 1:1-2. Like our firstborn brother Jesus, the Son of God, we have been foreknown and predestined to glorification (Romans 8:29).

There is another passage regarding the use of foreknowledge and its relation to election that I've noticed is not mentioned very often. Romans 11:1-2:

"I ask, then, has God rejected His people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew."

Paul is addressing the objection that God has forsaken ethnic Israel. When Paul says "God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew", He is not saying that, those individuals who are foreknown by God, are not forsaken (this is true of course, but it's not what Paul is saying here). Verse 2 is an unrestrictive clause - it's not specifying a a subgroup to whom God's rejection does not apply, it simply restates that God has not rejected the people Paul had just been talking about (ethnic Israel). This lends us more insight into how Paul uses the word "foreknew." The foreknowledge here is clearly not intellectual knowledge, but a sovereign, unconditional choosing of a people that had nothing to do with anything good in the people as such:

"You only have I known of all the families of the earth"-Amos 3:2

^Here we see the exclusiveness of God's election, as in Romans 8. Those whom God foreknows constitute the elect - as opposed to those whom God does not foreknow.

"For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the Earth. It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the LORD set His love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples, but it is because the LORD loves you and is keeping the oath that He swore to your fathers, that the LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand..."-Deuteronomy 7:6-8

Was it because of anything good in Israel that God loved them? Far from it. Anyone who's ever read the Old Testament knows that you couldn't bounce a rubber ball past Israel without them committing apostasy and worshipping it as a god. Yet God foreknew them (loved them sovereignly beforehand).

One of the more amusing instances of this is Galatians 4:9:

"But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God..."(Gal. 4:9).

Paul actually seems to be correcting himself when he realizes the theological inaccuracy the idea of us coming to "know God" might foster. That we are "known" by God, again, is a very common Old Testament idea, and implies sovereign selection, not intellectual knowledge about a decision we're going to make (Amos 3:2, Gen 18:19; Exod 33:12, 17; Deut. 9:24; Jer. 1:5; Hos 13:5). The idea that Paul would use such terminology, here and elsewhere, in connection with election, to a largely Jewish audience, and yet mean something completely different by the term and concept "foreknowledge" and its association with election (and furthermore, without telling us of this significant departure from such a traditional understanding) seems a tad farfetched.

John 6 (specifically, 6:37, 44, 63-65) is another nail in the coffin as far as unconditional election goes, but it takes too long to flesh out the context, and I'm sleepy. I hope this is of help to someone. I'd like to hear your feedback.

Also, check out Romans 9. Read through verses 1-23, and refer back to the "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated" quote which Paul uses to make his point. It's Malachi 1:2-3. God's sovereign choice is clearly affirmed here as well ("I have loved you," says the LORD. But you say, "How have you loved us?" "Is not Esau Jacob's brother?" declares the LORD. "Yet I have loved Jacob but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert." With the rhetorical question "Is not Esau Jacob's brother?" God is clearly affirming that, though by human standards, one had just as much right to anything as the other, God's sovereign choice determined who would receive the blessings, and who would be cursed. The logic of the rest of Romans 9:1-23 is clear).

[Jonah]

Paul made up stuff. All the Jews say so, for now 2 thousand years. See Hyman Macoby's book on Paul...gives you the standard Jewish take on Paul...for whatever it's worth to you. Robert Eisenman calls Paul a liar too...actually he says the Quram documents call Paul a liar.

And evidently, a lot of folks in Paul's day were calling him a liar to his face, because he repeatedly asserts that he is not lying.

[Greatest I Am]

Does the Bible teach free will?

Hell no.

The Bible teaches that the free will that God offers is --do it my way or burn forever.

In no way can that be construed as free will.

It is a threat and coercion, plain and simple.

God wants sheeple and slaves, not free people.

Regards
DL

[Christanity4ever]

Yes the bible indicates we have free will from the opening pages in Genesis to revelation. Man and woman chose the to eat from the tree of knowledge clearly going against Gods advice! That is in your face free will! Then in the last days of mankind we choose either the mark of the beast or not! We choose eternal life over death and the grave, the entire bible is about CHOICE. Then I have heard the various arguments that because God knows the future we can not have free will etc. See the story below to show how this assumption is faulty.

C4

Oh let me give you an story to make the gods foreknowledge of future events not a deaths nail of free will. Everyone knows that time travel into the future has been predicted by Einsteins theories of special and general relativity and most modern scientists agree its theoretical sound. This is accomplished by traveling at a high percentage of light speed then returning to earth. He would of aged maybe a year but earth (depending on the velocity of the ship and length of the mission) would of aged hundreds to millions of years. Lets say that the astronaut (God) could watch events speed up on earth like fast forwarding a dvd. He would know what everyone did etc. Would this knowledge effect what the people on earth did? NO! That is only one example of how God may know what we are going to do but how it would NOT effect our free will....

[Christanity4ever]

Does the Bible teach free will?

Hell no.

The Bible teaches that the free will that God offers is --do it my way or burn forever.

In no way can that be construed as free will.

It is a threat and coercion, plain and simple.

God wants sheeple and slaves, not free people.

Regards
DL

Ha ha my friend you have been lied to by some one ofr some thing! It seems they have convinced you the lie that God is evil. Wrong oh!
Look, first the way I read the bible teaches me that hell isn't for humans. I think when you die you simply die (if you don't want to go with God). That is humane and the way nature intended.

I find it astounding that those who sneer in Gods face and even reject that he exists think he is the one that is evil for allowing you to choose your natural end. The truth is the unsaved are not fit for the 'Job' that God is offering in the afterlife. Maybe you should be grateful that he allows you to go to the grave of YOUR choosing. Hey, Satan isn't called "That ancient serpent, called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world " for nothing!

C4

[Greatest I Am]

Does the Bible teach free will?

Hell no.

The Bible teaches that the free will that God offers is --do it my way or burn forever.

In no way can that be construed as free will.

It is a threat and coercion, plain and simple.

God wants sheeple and slaves, not free people.

Regards
DL

Ha ha my friend you have been lied to by some one ofr some thing! It seems they have convinced you the lie that God is evil. Wrong oh!
Look, first the way I read the bible teaches me that hell isn't for humans. I think when you die you simply die (if you don't want to go with God). That is humane and the way nature intended.

Upon death and meeting God, how many of us do you think are insane enough to reject a God?

In life, non believers do not reject God. They just do not see a god to chose.
One must have something to reject before it can be rejected.

I find it astounding that those who sneer in Gods face and even reject that he exists think he is the one that is evil for allowing you to choose your natural end. The truth is the unsaved are not fit for the 'Job' that God is offering in the afterlife. Maybe you should be grateful that he allows you to go to the grave of YOUR choosing. Hey, Satan isn't called "That ancient serpent, called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world " for nothing!

C4

Well, if any of us are unfit and we are all created by a God, then we are not to blame for being exactly what God created.

Can a goat decide to be a sheep?

If God creates a watch that does not keep good time, is it the fault of the watch or God?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I Am]

[quote="Christanity4ever"]Yes the bible indicates we have free will from the opening pages in Genesis to revelation. Man and woman chose the to eat from the tree of knowledge clearly going against Gods advice!

quote]

Adam and Eve chose the knowledge of good and evil. The knowledge that is required for them and us to gain a moral sense.
Exactly what God wants.
It is the only thing that places us above the beasts.

Would you stop Eve and give up your moral sense and just follow God without knowing why you follow.

Regards
DL

[Christanity4ever]

Well, if any of us are unfit and we are all created by a God, then we are not to blame for being exactly what God created.

That might be true EXCEPT. One little word. Freewill. You have no case because you have complete free will.

Can a goat decide to be a sheep?

No the goat nor the sheep has the ability to change.

If God creates a watch that does not keep good time, is it the fault of the watch or God?

That depends again! A master watchmaker can design a fantastic watch, however the watch can fail. But the analogy is not a good one. God could of created beings without free will and the ability to make choices. However the entire reason for our existence is to have the choice to choose. If you choose to believe in gods plan he has a Job for you. If you don't you fulfill your reason for existing on earth and die a humane natural death just like the animals and plants, ceasing to exist. Whats wrong with that?

C4

[Greatest I Am]

Well, if any of us are unfit and we are all created by a God, then we are not to blame for being exactly what God created.

That might be true EXCEPT. One little word. Freewill. You have no case because you have complete free will.

Can a goat decide to be a sheep?

No the goat nor the sheep has the ability to change.

If God creates a watch that does not keep good time, is it the fault of the watch or God?

That depends again! A master watchmaker can design a fantastic watch, however the watch can fail. But the analogy is not a good one. God could of created beings without free will and the ability to make choices. However the entire reason for our existence is to have the choice to choose. If you choose to believe in gods plan he has a Job for you. If you don't you fulfill your reason for existing on earth and die a humane natural death just like the animals and plants, ceasing to exist. Whats wrong with that?

C4

What's wrong with it is that it is all dogma and thus B S speculation.

The analogy is perfect. A perfect watch would likely always insure that time is under it’s control regardless of conditions.

Oh my, God does not own a watch.
I digress.



Better death, than life without a moral sense.

The only thing that places us above the other animals right now is our moral sense.

If your wish is to see the world from behind the eyes of a dumb animal, you---oh wait.

You do.

Regards

DL

[McCulloch]

[...] Freewill. You have no case because you have complete free will.

[...]
God could [strike]of[/strike] [have] created beings without free will and the ability to make choices. However the entire reason for our existence is to have the choice to choose.
[...]

It appears as if you are begging the question. We are debating whether or not the Bible teaches that we have free will. You are basing your arguments on the premise that we have free will.

[Greatest I Am]

A child askes why forever. A man knows why.
Asking why is free will.

Regards
DL