Switzerland set to ba Islamic Minarets

[Furrowed Brow]

Switerzland have just voted and exit polls suggest that they have voted for a ban on the building of islamic minarets.

BBC link

One reason for the proposed ban given is that Sharia law is incompatible with Swiss Democracy.

Is this correct? Or are the Swiss guilty of descrimination?

[TrueReligion]

Still you are not clear VUK, how come minaret wil show extreme Islam in any country? but not making it is an extreme religious racism. which is very obvious, that is why the controversy begin.
If it was not an issue, the controversy would'nt begin, is it clear

"Religious racism"? Maybe. However Islam is not just a belief like liberal Christianity or Judaism. Islam is a way of life too. Of course Judaism has a strong feeling towards a way of life as well, but we have no reason to worry about that, because they surely are not trying to conquer the countries they live in. Islam however has always been directly opposed to Christianity in religious conflicts. Islam has a set of laws that conflict with our western morals, philosophy and way of life. Hope this doesn't offend you but the countries that are predominantly Islamic are countries we don't really want to be forced to live in. Saudi-Arabia, Iraq and Iran just to name a few.

While you might personally see the good in Islam being a religion of peace and all, we don't. We see Christian charity, we see Christianity itself helping people, we see Christian countries with high moral standards. We see cartoons about Hitler and Jews and then see Jews printing them out or publishing them in their news paper themselves to laugh at it together and we see cartoons about Mohammed where the response is to burn the flag of that nation they were published in. We see people going out on the street, attacking embassies and killing people because they were deeply hurt in every atom of their being.... by a drawing...
We see that criminal rates of Muslims are higher when we compare Europeans to the Muslims living in their countries. We see Christian priests speaking out against racism and against homophobia and speaking for peace. We see imam's that want to conquer the west and kill every non-believer.

We see signs saying: "Behead everyone who says Islam is not a religion of peace". We see a strong hatred against the west and the morality thereof, we see Muslim men raping western women because wearing a skirt is "asking for it according to their culture" and we see females oppressed in Islamic countries.

When you compare all this of what we see. What in your eyes would be beneficial with taking on Islam? Sure you can say all of these claims are exaggerations (and some are) or not wrong in your personal experience. Sure you can say most of it is media-hype and false information. But even if all of them are, what would be so positive about the islamification of the west? The way our morals have developed compared to how the islamic morals have (or lack of development) is just completely incompatible. If my country would be labelled a Christian country, nothing would change. If my country would be labelled an Atheistic/secular country nothing would change. If my country would be labelled a Jewish country nothing would change that much. If my country would become an Islamic country a lot would. And not for the better, I assume.

(PS. This wasn't about banning the minaret, but about your point of people being "afraid" of Islam taking over)

Sorry T-Mash, but all your views canot be answered here, its just assumption and statements, and mostly out of topic,
If you think Islam is bad and etc etc, search yourself why christian and western women are coming to Islam, and the reason behind that.
Islam makes the way of charity"Zakaat", which is must for a muslim having certain amount of saving per year, so it could be used for poor people. Anything lke this in Bible?
Islam gave the proper and best idea for society, for family inheritence, anything mention in Bible for this?
Ican go on and on, but as its out of post, I would like to remain on post, Your all statements is clearly showing that switzerland ban on minaret is religious racism.
Now does this your statement make true or false? where you say that there is freedom in christianity?

[TrueReligion]

Its quite clear with your statement that majority is christians,and they dont want Islamic symbol to be built in their country, does;nt this show hatred towards Islam? what you call it in simple english?

There's a difference between not wanting minaret construction and hating all those who want the minarets. You're making big accusations.

Is Any justificaton given by those to dont want Minaret? can you bring proper proof?

Read the link you posted - there opinions are explained there, and they are also explained in the OP article: "Martin Baltisser, the SVP's general secretary, told the BBC: "This was a vote against minarets as symbols of Islamic power."

You may not agree with their justification, but I didn't vote - they did, and I'm just providing the reason they gave.

So this clearly justifying that they dont Islamic things in their country, what else you call religious discrimition and racism?

So did Switzerland impement ban on other religions religious symbol place etcetc? or they just want to keep church minaret only in their country, in the article also, its not stated that the ban is because of loosing identity if their culure and heritage. care to see anything in evidence for this statement?
Because what is obvious is that the people behind BAN, are religiously motivated(christians)..


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minaret_co ... witzerland

Why no answer is given here by you VUK?

Read the posts fully before commenting. I addressed the issue of identity in my previous posts.

So you agree that the christians in switzerland are behind this controversy,that they dont want Minaret to be built in Switzerland, its not about Swiss idendity, its about against Islam. this link say that mostly christians are behind this BAN.

If you make democracy in UK or US, mostly white people will make BAN on other colour people, e.g Black, Asians etc etc, so would you implement their vote on the basis of democract? or you will take it as racism?

Wow, is that so? So, you're saying that white people in the US and UK would vote for a ban on all coloured people? There are actually some parties in the UK who are classed as racists, such as the British National Party - however, the majority of the country do not want them in power. So I fail to see how you're point has any relevance.

I brought this point as an example, not that its hapening, thought you are native englishman VUK
[/quote]

I am a native englishman, you stated "mostly white people will make BAN on other colour people" . I mentioned the BNP as they are an active political group, although much of the UK population don't like them - which suggests that such a vote would not be successful.

I started with "IF", you use "IF" when you are quoting any example or letting other reader to understand.

That link you posted has some interesting quotes. You asked why they didn't want the minarets, and why they might fear Islam? Well, here's a quote form your link:

The committee alleges, inter alia, that "the construction of a minaret has no religious meaning. Neither in the Qur'an, nor in any other holy scripture of Islam is the minaret expressly mentioned at any rate. The minaret is far more a symbol of religious-political power claim

This is itself unclear . its saying tht minaret does'nt have any religious meaning, which I also said, n thn its saying its religious-political power claim, so wats the issue thn, its beyond understanding

The issue is that the committee saw the minarets as a symbol of a religious political power claim.

But the link also say that the Minaret does;nt have any relgious meaning, so what they mean by political power claim? still unclear my friend

Here's why it might be feared:

"Mosques are our barracks, domes our helmets, minarets our bayonets, believers our soldiers. This holy army guards my religion."

So they are afraid of 97 speech of Turkish PM? and implementing in 2005 and now? statements like this are given by Christian member of states also, wat is has to do with Minaret?
If they follow this, will they put a ban on Mosques as well?:) quite funny VUK wat you point out here

You missed the point. That speech gave the impression that followers of Islam saw themselves as soldiers, and he compares Islamic features to the military. That does not give a good impression.
You can't blame people for being cautious about Islam when large political figures say such things as the quote above.

You take turkey as large muslim political figure? People say that their kids are their army, do muslims carry weapons like soldiers or tanks etc etc?
Does this statement of Turkish Prime Minister is the reason behind this ban? does this statement showed by the Govt. of Switzerland asa reason to make Ban? can you prove now or its just your assumption?

Still you are not clear VUK, how come minaret wil show extreme Islam in any country? but not making it is an extreme religious racism. which is very obvious, that is why the controversy begin.
If it was not an issue, the controversy would'nt begin, is it clear

I never said minarets are an example of extreme Islam. I said that extreme Islam (eg: certain terrorist groups, hostile protestors who demand Islamification of parts of Europe - like the UK, etc) has had an impact on society.

It seems you have not fully understood my points - I advise you to ensure you fully understand the points raised before replying.[/quote]

Because your points are not clear VUK, which Terrorist group you are linking with Islam, and if some1 wants some parts ot Islamic sharia, how they become terrorist? did they emplant bomb, kill people there? make hostage to fulfil their demands? whats your reason for calling any1 terrorist? bring claims not false accusations, as it can be taken as serious charge against you VUK.

[VermilionUK]

But the link also say that the Minaret does;nt have any relgious meaning, so what they mean by political power claim? still unclear my friend

By saying it has no religious meaning, they are suggesting that minarets are no a requirement or neccessity of the religion. They then stated that it was a religious-political power claim, which suggests that minarets are used as a symbol of Islamic power over land, like a claim to territory - which, as the ban indicates, the Swiss do not like that.

Here's why it might be feared:

"Mosques are our barracks, domes our helmets, minarets our bayonets, believers our soldiers. This holy army guards my religion."

You take turkey as large muslim political figure? People say that their kids are their army, do muslims carry weapons like soldiers or tanks etc etc?

Does this statement of Turkish Prime Minister is the reason behind this ban? does this statement showed by the Govt. of Switzerland asa reason to make Ban? can you prove now or its just your assumption?[/color][/b]

The ban is due to a number of factors - factors which we have discussed. If you are looking for one definative answer then you won't find one. Reading through the link in the OP and your wikipedia link, there are several reasons - most of which we have already covered. I will quote some of them:

"The proposal had been put forward by the Swiss People's Party, (SVP), the largest party in parliament, which says minarets are a sign of Islamisation"

"Martin Baltisser, the SVP's general secretary, told the BBC: "This was a vote against minarets as symbols of Islamic power." I explained what was meant by this in my opening paragraph of this post

"Supporters of a ban claimed that allowing minarets would represent the growth of an ideology and a legal system - Sharia law - which are incompatible with Swiss democracy."

"Islamaphobia has increased intensively."

Also, women have been vocal about it, and a greater percentage of women supported the vote than men:

The British newspaper The Times cited support of the minaret ban by "radical feminists" who oppose the oppression of women in Islamic societies. Among these were noted feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali who in December gave her support for the ban with the article titled "Swiss ban on minarets was a vote for tolerance and inclusion". The Times further reported that Swiss women supported the ban, in pre-election polling, by a greater percentage than did Swiss men.

Because your points are not clear VUK

Fair enough, I'll try in future to expand on my points to make them more clear.

which Terrorist group you are linking with Islam

Al-Qaeda are predominantly Islamic, and so are Hamas, Hezbollah, and the PIJ (Palestine Islamic Jihad).

and if some1 wants some parts ot Islamic sharia, how they become terrorist? did they emplant bomb, kill people there? make hostage to fulfil their demands? whats your reason for calling any1 terrorist?

Definition of terrorism:

"The calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious"

All of the groups I listed above meet this definition of terrorism.

bring claims not false accusations, as it can be taken as serious charge against you VUK.

Like I said, the groups I listed meet the definition of terrorism, I doubt you can find a reason to not call Al-Qaeda a terrorist group.

[TrueReligion]

But the link also say that the Minaret does;nt have any relgious meaning, so what they mean by political power claim? still unclear my friend

By saying it has no religious meaning, they are suggesting that minarets are no a requirement or neccessity of the religion. They then stated that it was a religious-political power claim, which suggests that minarets are used as a symbol of Islamic power over land, like a claim to territory - which, as the ban indicates, the Swiss do not like that.

But its not justifying ban on Minaret, how come a minaret show a Islamic power over land?even if you remove the minaret, Mosque will be , which is the main part and prayer place for muslims.

Here's why it might be feared:

"Mosques are our barracks, domes our helmets, minarets our bayonets, believers our soldiers. This holy army guards my religion."

You take turkey as large muslim political figure? People say that their kids are their army, do muslims carry weapons like soldiers or tanks etc etc?

Does this statement of Turkish Prime Minister is the reason behind this ban? does this statement showed by the Govt. of Switzerland asa reason to make Ban? can you prove now or its just your assumption?[/color][/b]

The ban is due to a number of factors - factors which we have discussed. If you are looking for one definative answer then you won't find one. Reading through the link in the OP and your wikipedia link, there are several reasons - most of which we have already covered. I will quote some of them:

"The proposal had been put forward by the Swiss People's Party, (SVP), the largest party in parliament, which says minarets are a sign of Islamisation"

"Martin Baltisser, the SVP's general secretary, told the BBC: "This was a vote against minarets as symbols of Islamic power." I explained what was meant by this in my opening paragraph of this post

"Supporters of a ban claimed that allowing minarets would represent the growth of an ideology and a legal system - Sharia law - which are incompatible with Swiss democracy."

"Islamaphobia has increased intensively."

Also, women have been vocal about it, and a greater percentage of women supported the vote than men:

The British newspaper The Times cited support of the minaret ban by "radical feminists" who oppose the oppression of women in Islamic societies. Among these were noted feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali who in December gave her support for the ban with the article titled "Swiss ban on minarets was a vote for tolerance and inclusion". The Times further reported that Swiss women supported the ban, in pre-election polling, by a greater percentage than did Swiss men.

Yeah, I know what all is writen in the link, and I wanted you to bring it here, so it will be clear to all that what it is about.
All this is clearly indicating that its racism and discrimition against Islam, which you are denying till now VUK, do you justify and follow racism and discrimition? sorry but if you do, its not a good thing, and Islam is agasint racism and discrimintion of any kind.

Because your points are not clear VUK

Fair enough, I'll try in future to expand on my points to make them more clear.

which Terrorist group you are linking with Islam

Al-Qaeda are predominantly Islamic, and so are Hamas, Hezbollah, and the PIJ (Palestine Islamic Jihad).

You mention terrorists group in UK and Europe, who want to implement Islamic Sharia in this part,
rest, who say Hamas is a terrorist group? do you call freedom fighters terrorist group? sorry to say but seems that you treat al muslims who fight for their land as terrorist group,
Its same when Britishers came and captured India by force, the freedom fighters of India were called as terrorists by British Govt.
Does it make sense to you?
Your claims and statements are again wrong, and are totaly ignorant, make some good statements please.

and if some1 wants some parts ot Islamic sharia, how they become terrorist? did they emplant bomb, kill people there? make hostage to fulfil their demands? whats your reason for calling any1 terrorist?

Definition of terrorism:

"The calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious"

All of the groups I listed above meet this definition of terrorism.

bring claims not false accusations, as it can be taken as serious charge against you VUK.

Like I said, the groups I listed meet the definition of terrorism, I doubt you can find a reason to not call Al-Qaeda a terrorist group.

Is Al-Qaeda backed and favored by Islamic Govts.? In Pakistan, which is a muslim country, Al-Qaeda members if found are being prosecuted, and given legal punishment.
I asked you about the UK Groups whom to refered are doing terrorist activities to make sharia law, you didnt explain it but brought some other issue, please talk relevantly to what is asked my friend

[VermilionUK]

But its not justifying ban on Minaret, how come a minaret show a Islamic power over land?even if you remove the minaret, Mosque will be , which is the main part and prayer place for muslims.

That's part of the point when the committee were saying that minarets are no requirement of the religion.

Yeah, I know what all is writen in the link, and I wanted you to bring it here, so it will be clear to all that what it is about.
All this is clearly indicating that its racism and discrimition against Islam, which you are denying till now VUK, do you justify and follow racism and discrimition? sorry but if you do, its not a good thing, and Islam is agasint racism and discrimintion of any kind.

I do not follow racism or discrimination - I have only been explaining that the ban is a result of the fear of Islam spreading.

You mention terrorists group in UK and Europe, who want to implement Islamic Sharia in this part,
rest, who say Hamas is a terrorist group? do you call freedom fighters terrorist group? sorry to say but seems that you treat al muslims who fight for their land as terrorist group,

It depends on your point of view. If you think that blowing up innocent people, sending rockets, and car bombings are acceptible and not a form of terrorism, then so be it. Frankly, I think that such acts resemble those taken by a terrorist group.

Its same when Britishers came and captured India by force, the freedom fighters of India were called as terrorists by British Govt.
Does it make sense to you?

I think that the actions of the British during those times were acts of pure greed. I don't condone Britain's capture of land for the empire.

Your claims and statements are again wrong, and are totaly ignorant, make some good statements please.

Well...

who say Hamas is a terrorist group? do you call freedom fighters terrorist group?

I think that is an ignorant a statement.

Is Al-Qaeda backed and favored by Islamic Govts.? In Pakistan, which is a muslim country, Al-Qaeda members if found are being prosecuted, and given legal punishment.
I asked you about the UK Groups whom to refered are doing terrorist activities to make sharia law, you didnt explain it but brought some other issue, please talk relevantly to what is asked my friend

You didn't ask me about UK terrorists, read your own posts:

which Terrorist group you are linking with Islam

If you want examples of muslim terrorists in the UK, then consider the 7/7 London bombings, which were carried out by British muslims.

There was also a bomb plot to blow up transatlantic airlines, which was prevented - the bombers were Muslim British citizens.

[T-mash]

Sorry T-Mash, but all your views canot be answered here, its just assumption and statements, and mostly out of topic,
If you think Islam is bad and etc etc, search yourself why christian and western women are coming to Islam, and the reason behind that.
Islam makes the way of charity"Zakaat", which is must for a muslim having certain amount of saving per year, so it could be used for poor people. Anything lke this in Bible?
Islam gave the proper and best idea for society, for family inheritence, anything mention in Bible for this?
Ican go on and on, but as its out of post, I would like to remain on post, Your all statements is clearly showing that switzerland ban on minaret is religious racism.
Now does this your statement make true or false? where you say that there is freedom in christianity?

What a weak defence...
So according to you the following are not facts but just assumptions:

"However Islam is not just a belief like liberal Christianity or Judaism. Islam is a way of life too"
"Islam however has always been directly opposed to Christianity in religious conflicts. "
"Islam has a set of laws that conflict with our western morals, philosophy and way of life"
"the countries that are predominantly Islamic are countries we don't really want to be forced to live in. Saudi-Arabia, Iraq and Iran just to name a few. "
"We see cartoons about Hitler and Jews and then see Jews printing them out or publishing them in their news paper themselves to laugh at it together and we see cartoons about Mohammed where the response is to burn the flag of that nation they were published in. We see people going out on the street, attacking embassies and killing people because they were deeply hurt in every atom of their being.... by a drawing.."
"We see that criminal rates of Muslims are higher when we compare Europeans to the Muslims living in their countries."
"We see imam's that want to conquer the west and kill every non-believer. "
"We see signs saying: "Behead everyone who says Islam is not a religion of peace""
"We see a strong hatred against the west and the morality thereof"
"We see Muslim men raping western women because wearing a skirt is "asking for it according to their culture"
"We see females oppressed in Islamic countries."


All of these are facts of what we see. You dismiss all of this just because you disagree with me?

Islam is not a peaceful religion for us. Islam is not compatible with our western morality unless you are a very liberal Muslim. Christianity as it used to be is also not compatible with our western morality. The difference is that Christianity evolved alongside our values. Islam did not.

[TrueReligion]

But its not justifying ban on Minaret, how come a minaret show a Islamic power over land?even if you remove the minaret, Mosque will be , which is the main part and prayer place for muslims.

That's part of the point when the committee were saying that minarets are no requirement of the religion.

This is what commitee said after in defence, but the issue was not started by this point, you mention earlier that the people who voted, dont like Muslim power in their place. so which 1 is true?

Yeah, I know what all is writen in the link, and I wanted you to bring it here, so it will be clear to all that what it is about.
All this is clearly indicating that its racism and discrimition against Islam, which you are denying till now VUK, do you justify and follow racism and discrimition? sorry but if you do, its not a good thing, and Islam is agasint racism and discrimintion of any kind.

I do not follow racism or discrimination - I have only been explaining that the ban is a result of the fear of Islam spreading.

So this is what I said also, that they are afraid of Islam, but what Minaret has to do with this? is it a sign of fear?

You mention terrorists group in UK and Europe, who want to implement Islamic Sharia in this part,
rest, who say Hamas is a terrorist group? do you call freedom fighters terrorist group? sorry to say but seems that you treat al muslims who fight for their land as terrorist group,

It depends on your point of view. If you think that blowing up innocent people, sending rockets, and car bombings are acceptible and not a form of terrorism, then so be it. Frankly, I think that such acts resemble those taken by a terrorist group.

Which innocent people Hamas killed? bring your proof? is Hamas killing people in Palestine? or Israel?
Whatever is going on in Israel and Palestine, its quite obvious that the terrorists are more on Israel.

Its same when Britishers came and captured India by force, the freedom fighters of India were called as terrorists by British Govt.
Does it make sense to you?

I think that the actions of the British during those times were acts of pure greed. I don't condone Britain's capture of land for the empire.

Your claims and statements are again wrong, and are totaly ignorant, make some good statements please.

Well...

who say Hamas is a terrorist group? do you call freedom fighters terrorist group?

I think that is an ignorant a statement.

You mean Hamas are not freedom fighters? are you sure about your claim? justify it, we will see who is ignorant

Is Al-Qaeda backed and favored by Islamic Govts.? In Pakistan, which is a muslim country, Al-Qaeda members if found are being prosecuted, and given legal punishment.
I asked you about the UK Groups whom to refered are doing terrorist activities to make sharia law, you didnt explain it but brought some other issue, please talk relevantly to what is asked my friend

You didn't ask me about UK terrorists, read your own posts:

I asked you which group is forcing the people to accept Islamic Sharia? you mention earlier that some terrorists group in Europe and UK, are doing this, so bring evidence now for your statement, rather thn runing from your own statement

which Terrorist group you are linking with Islam

If you want examples of muslim terrorists in the UK, then consider the 7/7 London bombings, which were carried out by British muslims.

Do they belong to any muslim group? tamil tigers are doing bomb attacks in Sri-Lanka, is christanity behind that? or their own religion behind that?:)
The IRA did several bomb attacks, so it mean christians are terrotists as well?

There was also a bomb plot to blow up transatlantic airlines, which was prevented - the bombers were Muslim British citizens.

Iran officials also diffuse bomb in plane toilet, so if muslims were doing this, why would Iran diffuse the bomb?:)

No justification is clear from your side till now, if you think muslims are as a whole terrorists, bring clear evidence, with clear religious verses from books, proper proof. making some groups link with religion is not right, you will always get a reply for that easily.

[TrueReligion]

Sorry T-Mash, but all your views canot be answered here, its just assumption and statements, and mostly out of topic,
If you think Islam is bad and etc etc, search yourself why christian and western women are coming to Islam, and the reason behind that.
Islam makes the way of charity"Zakaat", which is must for a muslim having certain amount of saving per year, so it could be used for poor people. Anything lke this in Bible?
Islam gave the proper and best idea for society, for family inheritence, anything mention in Bible for this?
Ican go on and on, but as its out of post, I would like to remain on post, Your all statements is clearly showing that switzerland ban on minaret is religious racism.
Now does this your statement make true or false? where you say that there is freedom in christianity?

What a weak defence...
So according to you the following are not facts but just assumptions:

"However Islam is not just a belief like liberal Christianity or Judaism. Islam is a way of life too"
"Islam however has always been directly opposed to Christianity in religious conflicts. "
"Islam has a set of laws that conflict with our western morals, philosophy and way of life"
"the countries that are predominantly Islamic are countries we don't really want to be forced to live in. Saudi-Arabia, Iraq and Iran just to name a few. "
"We see cartoons about Hitler and Jews and then see Jews printing them out or publishing them in their news paper themselves to laugh at it together and we see cartoons about Mohammed where the response is to burn the flag of that nation they were published in. We see people going out on the street, attacking embassies and killing people because they were deeply hurt in every atom of their being.... by a drawing.."
"We see that criminal rates of Muslims are higher when we compare Europeans to the Muslims living in their countries."
"We see imam's that want to conquer the west and kill every non-believer. "
"We see signs saying: "Behead everyone who says Islam is not a religion of peace""
"We see a strong hatred against the west and the morality thereof"
"We see Muslim men raping western women because wearing a skirt is "asking for it according to their culture"
"We see females oppressed in Islamic countries."


All of these are facts of what we see. You dismiss all of this just because you disagree with me?

Islam is not a peaceful religion for us. Islam is not compatible with our western morality unless you are a very liberal Muslim. Christianity as it used to be is also not compatible with our western morality. The difference is that Christianity evolved alongside our values. Islam did not.

You will take it as a weak defence, because its against your imagination and ideas. I told already that there is no need to reply any of your statement, as its only statement, witout proof, which is not acceptable.
However for discussing about topic, what relation it has with Minaret ban, as we are talking about particular subject.
If you want to talk about Islam in particular, I will reply you, make seperate topic for that, and we will discuss with proofs, Agree?

[T-mash]

You will take it as a weak defence, because its against your imagination and ideas. I told already that there is no need to reply any of your statement, as its only statement, witout proof, which is not acceptable.

Right.


"However Islam is not just a belief like liberal Christianity or Judaism. Islam is a way of life too"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia[b]

""Islam however has always been directly opposed to Christianity in religious conflicts. " [/b]
http://www.megaessays.com/viewpaper/54591.html\

"Islam has a set of laws that conflict with our western morals, philosophy and way of life"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4204820.stm

"the countries that are predominantly Islamic are countries we don't really want to be forced to live in. Saudi-Arabia, Iraq and Iran just to name a few. "
Statement of opinion, I agree.

"We see cartoons about Hitler and Jews and then see Jews printing them out or publishing them in their news paper themselves to laugh at it together and we see cartoons about Mohammed where the response is to burn the flag of that nation they were published in. We see people going out on the street, attacking embassies and killing people because they were deeply hurt in every atom of their being.... by a drawing.."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-P ... ontroversy
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/382

This led to protests across the Muslim world, some of which escalated into violence with police firing on the crowds (resulting in more than 100 deaths, all together),[1] including setting fire to the Danish Embassies in Syria, Lebanon and Iran, storming European buildings, and desecrating the Danish, Dutch, Norwegian and German flags in Gaza City. While a number of Muslim leaders called for protesters to remain peaceful, other Muslim leaders across the globe, including Mahmoud al-Zahar of Hamas, issued death threats



""We see that criminal rates of Muslims are higher when we compare Europeans to the Muslims living in their countries."

Clicky clicky!

"We see imam's that want to conquer the west and kill every non-believer. "
Already shown in the links.

"We see signs saying: "Behead everyone who says Islam is not a religion of peace""


"We see a strong hatred against the west and the morality thereof"
Shown.

"We see Muslim men raping western women because wearing a skirt is "asking for it according to their culture"
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/na ... 1112419114

The Mufti of Australia, Sheikh Taj al-Din al-Hilali, has gained international attention this week by saying that women are generally at fault if they are raped. Speaking to a Muslim audience in Sydney, he explained that rape (specifically, zina, sexual activity forbidden under Islamic law -- a word mistranslated in published accounts of the Sheikh’s words as “adultery�) is “90 percent the woman’s responsibility. Why? Because a woman owns the weapon of seduction. It’s she who takes off her clothes, shortens them, flirts, puts on make-up and powder and takes to the streets, God protect us, dallying. It’s she who shortens, raises and lowers. Then, it’s a look, a smile, a conversation, a greeting, a talk, a date, a meeting, a crime, then Long Bay jail. Then you get a judge, who has no mercy, and he gives you 65 years.�

"We see females oppressed in Islamic countries."
Do I even need to clarify that one?


So yes TrueReligion. I did indeed consider that a very weak defence. Only my imagination and ideas? Try again.

[TrueReligion]

You will take it as a weak defence, because its against your imagination and ideas. I told already that there is no need to reply any of your statement, as its only statement, witout proof, which is not acceptable.

Right.


"However Islam is not just a belief like liberal Christianity or Judaism. Islam is a way of life too"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia[b]

""Islam however has always been directly opposed to Christianity in religious conflicts. " [/b]
http://www.megaessays.com/viewpaper/54591.html\

"Islam has a set of laws that conflict with our western morals, philosophy and way of life"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4204820.stm

"the countries that are predominantly Islamic are countries we don't really want to be forced to live in. Saudi-Arabia, Iraq and Iran just to name a few. "
Statement of opinion, I agree.

"We see cartoons about Hitler and Jews and then see Jews printing them out or publishing them in their news paper themselves to laugh at it together and we see cartoons about Mohammed where the response is to burn the flag of that nation they were published in. We see people going out on the street, attacking embassies and killing people because they were deeply hurt in every atom of their being.... by a drawing.."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-P ... ontroversy
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/382

This led to protests across the Muslim world, some of which escalated into violence with police firing on the crowds (resulting in more than 100 deaths, all together),[1] including setting fire to the Danish Embassies in Syria, Lebanon and Iran, storming European buildings, and desecrating the Danish, Dutch, Norwegian and German flags in Gaza City. While a number of Muslim leaders called for protesters to remain peaceful, other Muslim leaders across the globe, including Mahmoud al-Zahar of Hamas, issued death threats



""We see that criminal rates of Muslims are higher when we compare Europeans to the Muslims living in their countries."

Clicky clicky!

"We see imam's that want to conquer the west and kill every non-believer. "
Already shown in the links.

"We see signs saying: "Behead everyone who says Islam is not a religion of peace""


"We see a strong hatred against the west and the morality thereof"
Shown.

"We see Muslim men raping western women because wearing a skirt is "asking for it according to their culture"
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/na ... 1112419114

The Mufti of Australia, Sheikh Taj al-Din al-Hilali, has gained international attention this week by saying that women are generally at fault if they are raped. Speaking to a Muslim audience in Sydney, he explained that rape (specifically, zina, sexual activity forbidden under Islamic law -- a word mistranslated in published accounts of the Sheikh’s words as “adultery�) is “90 percent the woman’s responsibility. Why? Because a woman owns the weapon of seduction. It’s she who takes off her clothes, shortens them, flirts, puts on make-up and powder and takes to the streets, God protect us, dallying. It’s she who shortens, raises and lowers. Then, it’s a look, a smile, a conversation, a greeting, a talk, a date, a meeting, a crime, then Long Bay jail. Then you get a judge, who has no mercy, and he gives you 65 years.�

"We see females oppressed in Islamic countries."
Do I even need to clarify that one?


So yes TrueReligion. I did indeed consider that a very weak defence. Only my imagination and ideas? Try again.

T-Mash, can;t you see that I'am not answering anything of what you are writing above, infact I didnt see at all what you are writing.
I said that if you want any argument or discussion regarding Islam, make another post, we will discuss there, I dont want to go off-topic here.
If you have any thing to discuss about Ban of Minaret, fee free to discuss here, rest for any other discussion, do in another post, and You will get all your answers.