Jonah wrote:okay, we could quibble. On one hand, Augustine made mysoginist statements. On the other hand, he didn't make as many as most in his day.
So, if we took "woman" off...and just get to the "born" part. It doesn't change much. The issue is still sex and babies. And it's this weird disease concept that infected all of western christendom up to and through the Immaculate Conception (which the Orthodox Church thinks is a load of kaka along with Original Sin).
The goofy thing is that Augustine's sexual sins really weren't that profound. It was his feeling about them that was the problem. Maybe the toilet training in infancy didn't go very well. I dunno. But if that's what it was, heck, what a price everyone in the west has paid for that.
I also have no desire to quibble but you appear to be obsessed with the notion that Original Sin has something to do with sex and babies. It does not.
The doctrine of Original Sin considers that this is the state in which all humanity exists as a result of the Fall of Man. Adam’s disobedience, in eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, which God expressly forbade, caused him to sin.
Augustine argued that humanity inherited this original sin from Adam. He [Augustine] based his understanding of this seminal transmission of Original Sin on a mistaken interpretation of the Latin text of Romans 5:12
propterea sicut per unum hominem in hunc mundum peccatum intravit et per peccatum mors et ita in omnes homines mors pertransiit in quo omnes peccaverunt
The Latin “in quo� can be read as either masculine or neuter. Augustine chose to interpret it as masculine “in whom�(i.e. Adam) : Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men,
in whom all have sinned.
However, had he understood a little Greek he would have realised that “in quo� should be interpreted as neuter thus giving “Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men,
in that all have sinned.
Consequently Augustine, and the Church of Rome, held to the doctrine and insisted that all babies were born sinners and so argued for the necessity of infant baptism. Sad that a simple error can lead to so many suffering for so long.
). It's different for children. So then at what age does Original Sin kick in? He tells me after 12, is when you need Jesus. He claims this to be biblically supported. Disappointingly (but not surprisingly), he wasn't able to tell me where in the bible this was.
