The Two Christs

[arth47]

-Gen 2:7:"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul".
-Gen 2:17:"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die".
-Gen 3:6: "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat".
- 1 cor 15:47:"The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Gen 3:23:"Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken".

Matt 16:24-25:Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:25:"He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal".


I have read so many articles and seen lots of videos online that suggest that the Biblical account of Jesus Birth,life on earth, death and resurrection were stolen from the account of some pagan savior gods who existed before Jesus came to the earth and blended into Christianity So I decided to address the Issue to make People understand why the similarities between the ancient accounts exist and to show that Nothing in Christianity has ever and would ever be taken from Paganism.



The people who claim these things often cite the similarities between the account of Osiris the Egyptian sun god who was killed by Set, the Egyptian god of darkness and evil and was resurrected in the form of his son, Horus and the story of Jesus crucifixion which was influenced by Satan the god of this evil world and his Resurrection.However,What they fail to realize is that the 2 deaths and 2 Resurrections symbolize different things.


The Sacrifice of the Higher self for the Lower self:
-John 8:23:"And he said to them, You are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world".

When Adam the 1st man on earth and the progenitor of the human race chose to eat from the tree of disobedience,He was choosing a terrestrial existence over a divine existence.He was choosing to die to God in order to live to sin.God told Adam that he was going to die if he ate from the forbidden tree.This death is symbolic of the fact that man was going to sacrifice his divine breathe from God which was his life for a temporal breathe of sin.The devil deceived eve into thinking that the terrestrial existence was what was ideal for her and her future seed.That is why mystics see satan as being the liberator of mankind.They claim he saved Adam and Eve by showing them how to be God.They claim he made them make the perfect sacrifice to save themselves from Gods control.

When Adam did eat of the tree, he died to God and became alive to sin and satan(i.e became a new being)That is what the sacrifice and death of the pagan "Christ" (osiris and the other sun gods)represents.It is symbolizes the sacrifice of the higher self for the lower self.The death to God in order to live to sin.The so called"resurrection" of the pagan Christ is symbolized in the new Adam ,The one that was born when He partook of the forbidden fruit of Eden.The one who realized his nakedness.

The sacrifice of the lower self for the higher self:
Since man chose death over life and was separated from God.The only way back to God was to die to the terrestrial life of sin and be "renewed" again by Gods breathe(Romans 12:2).
That is what Jesus death symbolizes the death to the sinful nature that Adam and Eve chose and a restoration of all who accept him to the garden of Eden and Gods control.That is why we Christians preach the cross.That is why we emphasize denial.That is why we seek to lay down our lives to know Jesus.


As we have seen from the above, both of the Christs have to "die" to be raised again.The pagan "antichrist"has to die to God to live to sin and be in control of his life(be a god).The Christian Christ has to die to sin in order to live to God.In both cases death is necessary in order to achieve their goals.

God represents ignorance of the self (knowledge of God) .That is why Adam and Eve were unconscious of the fact that they were naked in the garden of Eden.Because of this,Satan fools mystics to think that God represents darkness(ignorance )and that he is the true light that shows mankind how to be god.(Read Isa 5:20,2 or 11:14).These godless pagans feel God represents Set (the god of darkness).They feel that in order to become the god the serpent promised them they would become,they need to overcome Gods control and be united with the knowledge Satan offered them

-John 8:44:"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it".
-2 cor 4:4:In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Satan is really the god of darkness,evil and lies.He makes us ignorant of our divine nature with his false light.He fools us to accept a temporal beastly existence serving self instead of accepting God's eternal and divine image.He makes us serve him and his demons instead of serving the true God who loves us.In order to see God we must die to our serpent nature (overcome satan)and accept God in our hearts(John 12:24)

The death on the trees:

-Galatians 3:13:"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree"

In Norse Mythology,It is believed that Odin,The chief god of Norse Mythology died on a tree and many people believe that this justifies the belief that Christs death on a tree was stolen from pagan doctrines and adopted by Christians this is also far from the truth.

The Divine and Forbidden Knowledge were symbolized by two trees in the garden and Adam and Eve chose the forbidden knowledge for themselves and their future seed.In order to return to God,It was going to be necessary for them and their fallen seed to die to the forbidden knowledge and be restored to God.That is what the death of Jesus on the Cross(Tree) symbolizes.It is the death to the forbidden knowledge so we can be restored to God.Notice that the above verse says Christ became a "curse"for us to save us.It means he took on the image of the cursed serpent of sin in order to destroy it and restore humanity to God.Also John 3:14-15 says:"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life"".

The serpent on the pole that Moses lifted up is symbolic of Christ who even though he knew no sin, took on the serpent nature of sin in order to save us(All who look to him)

On the other hand,In order to know sin,The self and Satan,Adam and eve partook of the forbidden tree and hence died to God(The tree of life)That is what the death of the pagan gods on trees represents:The death to the tree of God in order to live to sin.

[Coyotero]

Welcome to the forum!

I don't see a topic for debate, but I will, if you don't mind, illuminate a couple of points.

-Galatians 3:13:"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree"

In Norse Mythology,It is believed that Odin,The chief god of Norse Mythology died on a tree and many people believe that this justifies the belief that Christs death on a tree was stolen from pagan doctrines and adopted by Christians this is also far from the truth.

Actually Odin didn't die on that tree. He hung himself there for nine days, impaled by his spear, to prove to Mimir his thirst for knowledge.

Citing a passage from Havamal (The words of Odin the High One, Saemund's Edda, Olive Bray Translation):

137.
I trow I hung on that windy Tree
nine whole days and nights,
stabbed with a spear, offered to Odin,
myself to mine own self given,
high on that Tree of which none hath heard
from what roots it rises to heaven.

138.
None refreshed me ever with food or drink,
I peered right down in the deep;
crying aloud I lifted the Runes
then back I fell from thence.

Odin hung on the tree Yggdrasil and entered a trance-like state in which Mimir divulged to him the knowledge of the runes. His purpose in doing so was to gain the knowledge necessary to stop or avoid Ragnarök.

The serpent on the pole that Moses lifted up is symbolic of Christ who even though he knew no sin, took on the serpent nature of sin in order to save us(All who look to him)

On the other hand,In order to know sin,The self and Satan,Adam and eve partook of the forbidden tree and hence died to God(The tree of life)That is what the death of the pagan gods on trees represents:The death to the tree of God in order to live to sin.

This is an incorrect statement. The deaths of various pagan gods only represents this because you choose to think it does. To try to say that Christianity and some pagan systems share some hidden meaning or purpose is insulting and demeaning to both religions.

[beloved57]

arth says:

When Adam did eat of the tree, he died to God and became alive to sin and satan

Actually He died when eve ate of the Tree..thats why she was able to give to him and he eat right after her, because He was dead to God the split second she ate..his acquiescence proves that..

[arth47]

Actually Odin didn't die on that tree. He hung himself there for nine days, impaled by his spear, to prove to Mimir his thirst for knowledge.

Citing a passage from Havamal (The words of Odin the High One, Saemund's Edda, Olive Bray Translation):Odin hung on the tree Yggdrasil and entered a trance-like state in which Mimir divulged to him the knowledge of the runes. His purpose in doing so was to gain the knowledge necessary to stop or avoid Ragnarök.

Thanks a lot for the warm welcome.Interesting Point.You are right He didn't die but was hung there pierced by "His own spear" in order to learn the wisdom that would give him power in the nine worlds.However I want You to take note of the fact that Odin was "hung" and "pierced" on the tree The same way Jesus Hung and was pierced on the cross.Why do You think Odin had to inflict so much pain on Himself in order to gain wisdom?Why couldn't he just sit under the tree to gain the wisdom.The pain symbolized a death.Also the spear was "His own"It was a choice he made to die to get knowledge:The same way Adam and Eve chose to die to God to gain knowledge.Don't You also find it too much of a coincidence that He was searching for wisdom from the world tree,The same way Eve was searching for wisdom from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?Infact He sacrificed his eye (which eye he sacrificed is unclear) at Mímir's spring in order to gain the Wisdom of Ages The same way Eve sacrificed her "God sight"(not being conscious of her nakedness) for self consciousness(wisdom apart from God Gen 3:6)And finally both the accounts of Adam and Eve and Odin involve a tree which gave wisdom to the one who sought after it.

This is an incorrect statement. The deaths of various pagan gods only represents this because you choose to think it does. To try to say that Christianity and some pagan systems share some hidden meaning or purpose is insulting and demeaning to both religions.

Hmmm incorrect statement?While I agree with Your insinuation that everyone has a right to their own opinion and that their opinion might not necessarily be right.It doesn't change the fact that there is one truth and all seekers of truth should strive for it.Your statement:"The deaths of various pagan gods only represents this because you choose to think it does."Is equivalent to You saying that Barack Obama is the president of the US only because people choose to believe he is.Barack is the president of the US because He is the President whether people choose to believe it or not.My statement can only be erroneous only if it actually negates the truth and if You feel it does prove it.All diligent adherents of pagan systems and many other paths know that trees symbolize wisdom and knowledge and that diligent seekers need to "die"(doesnt have to be a literal death)in order to experience a new life.Even Buddha sat under a Bodhi tree in order to attain enlightenment(wisdom).
Finally,My statement that Christianity and pagan paths have hidden meanings is neither demeaning of insulting to any of the above paths.The Bible is clear that "the secret of the Lord is with those that fear Him".Jesus told His disciples that it was give to them to know the mysteries of God but to others in parables.Pagans teach that behind every ritual there is a symbolism attached.An example of this is the great sex act practiced by wiccans.They teach that the actual act (which is either practiced by the high priestess and high priest or the chalice and the Athame symbolizes the union of the gods and the goddesses

[arth47]

Actually He died when eve ate of the Tree..thats why she was able to give to him and he eat right after her, because He was dead to God the split second she ate..his acquiescence proves that..

He died when he ate the fruit The Bible makes this clear when it quotes God as saying to Adam:"Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and "hast eaten of the tree", of which I commanded thee, saying Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; ......."(Gen 3:17),:It was His choice to partake in the forbidden knowledge (disobedience) that made Him subject to the curse and also Romans 6:23:"The wages of sin is death"It is sin(rebellion)That kills.The act of partaking of the forbidden knowledge(sin) is what killed Him.Finally Romans 5: 19:"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners....",.It was Adams disobedience that made both himself and the rest of us sinners and made us subject to death(Romans 5:12)

[beloved57]

Actually He died when eve ate of the Tree..thats why she was able to give to him and he eat right after her, because He was dead to God the split second she ate..his acquiescence proves that..

He died when he ate the fruit The Bible makes this clear when it quotes God as saying to Adam:"Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and "hast eaten of the tree", of which I commanded thee, saying Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; ......."(Gen 3:17),:It was His choice to partake in the forbidden knowledge (disobedience) that made Him subject to the curse and also Romans 6:23:"The wages of sin is death"It is sin(rebellion)That kills.The act of choosing to willingly disobey God is what killed Him.Finally Romans 5: 19:"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners....",.It was Adams disobedience that made both himself and the rest of us sinners and made us subject to death(Romans 5:12)

He died when he ate the fruit

When eve ate, he ate, for they were one flesh, and in the beginning their name was Adam..

Gen 5:2

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

The pronoun their is plural, followed by the singular noun Adam.

[arth47]

When eve ate, he ate, for they were one flesh, and in the beginning their name was Adam..

Gen 5:2

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

The pronoun their is plural, followed by the singular noun Adam.

Gen 3:6:" And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."
As You can see from the above verse the Bible differentiated between the woman and her husband.It says the woman "gave to her" husband with her to eat and he did eat.Take note of the fact it says "woman" and "husband" with her not Adam.God also made it clear to Adam that it was because he hearkened unto his wifes voice to disobey Him that he was going to curse the ground.Finally,Adam also confirmed that it was his wife that gave him to eat when He said in Gen 3:12:" The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat".It is the woman that gave the man to eat, the man chose to eat and that is why God held Him accountable for His actions by "cursing the ground for his sake".

[beloved57]

As You can see from the above verse the Bible differentiated between the woman and her husband.It says the woman "gave to her" husband with her to eat and he did eat.

I never said He did not eat, but transgression was in the world before He ate, for eve was in transgression..1 tim 2:14

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

[arth47]

I never said He did not eat, but transgression was in the world before He ate, for eve was in transgression..1 tim 2:14

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

You made the following statement:"Actually He died when eve ate of the Tree..thats why she was able to give to him and he eat right after her, because He was dead to God the split second she ate"
You said he died to God the split second she ate.And my point was that he didn't die the split second she ate,He died the split second he ate.That was why when God asked Him thus " Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?"(Gen 3:11)He answered thus:" And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat."(Gen 3:12)He knew he was naked because He ate from the tree.And the knowledge of His nakedness is death.The ignorance of His nakedness is life.So it is obvious he died when he ate not when she ate.And that is why God held Him accountable not the woman.The man is not to listen to His wife's voice but To Gods voice.

[beloved57]

art says:

And my point was that he didn't die the split second she ate,He died the split second he ate

Well He did, for transgression entered into the world through eve, for scripture says, adam was not in transgression but eve 1 tim 2:

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

So thats when adams transgression took place rom 5:

14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

His Transgression was via eve initially..

I have showed you already, and you have ignored, that Adam in the beginning was the Male and Female in Gods sight..

gen 5:


2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Now if this is true, and God said to Adam:

gen 2:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Then if adam didnt die the moment he ate via eve, God lied..

Now I dont believe God lied, do you ?