Religion: Cure or cause of war?

VermilionUK · Post by **VermilionUK** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:04 am

Take a look at several conflicts through our History and in current times:

The Crusades (1095-1291)
The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
Al-Qaeda vs United States of America + United Nations
The Conflict in Northern Ireland
The Reconquista
The French Wars of Religion

They all share similar traits - they are all, in one way or another provoked, or contributed to, by religion. Although I am in no way saying "religion causes all war", because that's simply not true - it does/has contributed to many wars/major conflicts in our history.
However, one could say that if everyone was *insert religion*, then we would have no disagreements, and thus, have no reason for war (except: greed, anger, hatred etc)
However, even if we were all one religion - Christianity, for example - then we would still have scope for war (Northern Ireland, French WoR, for example)

So here is my point for discussion: Does religion contribute (or cause) war, or is it the solution to war? OR If we were a world without religion, would we have no/less war? OR Is religion the solution to war?

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:03 am

I believe that war is far too complex a subject to blame on religion. However, religious beliefs on the part of the combatants can make war worse. It allows them to become irrational and extremist.

JoeyKnothead · Post by **JoeyKnothead** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:17 pm

McCulloch wrote:I believe that war is far too complex a subject to blame on religion. However, religious beliefs on the part of the combatants can make war worse. It allows them to become irrational and extremist.

Seconded.

There are just too many reasons for man to wage war with himself to pin down any one single cause.

VermilionUK · Post by **VermilionUK** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:42 pm

Well, like I said - I wasn't saying "Religion is the cause of all war".

I was merely pointing out that religion is often used to drum up support (exploitation of Muslims by terrorist groups), and in SOME cases, it is the cause of War (NI Conflict, Crusades, Israeli-Palestinian Conflict). However, without religion, there would be no excuse to go to war over religious conflicts - and so war can/could be averted.

Coyotero · Post by **Coyotero** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:14 pm

Every one of these wars had a socio-economic cause. Religion was simply a tool to justify it.

Sacking jerusalem for it's gold is a lot easier to justify when you're sacking it for it's gold in the name of God.

Miles · Post by **Miles** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:03 pm

While religion may not have been at the bottom of any particular war, it has been a staunch ally if not a willing tool by which too many wars have been fought. All of which stands in contrast to its utter absence in putting an end to any war.

MikeH · Post by **MikeH** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:30 pm

Leaders always need to "call forth a people," or in other words, to get people to change their thinking from the individual to the collective. Without this nobody would ever choose to sacrifice their own needs or life for the good of the state. Religion is a great way to do this, but so are many other things such as race, country, etc...

VermilionUK · Post by **VermilionUK** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:08 pm

MikeH wrote:Leaders always need to "call forth a people," or in other words, to get people to change their thinking from the individual to the collective. Without this nobody would ever choose to sacrifice their own needs or life for the good of the state. Religion is a great way to do this, but so are many other things such as race, country, etc...

I see what you're saying - but in today's society, we don't need religion to do that. But yes, religion does change people's thinking form the individual to the collective, it's just that in the process it can cause so much suffering.

MikeH · Post by **MikeH** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:20 pm

VermilionUK wrote:
MikeH wrote:Leaders always need to "call forth a people," or in other words, to get people to change their thinking from the individual to the collective. Without this nobody would ever choose to sacrifice their own needs or life for the good of the state. Religion is a great way to do this, but so are many other things such as race, country, etc...
I see what you're saying - but in today's society, we don't need religion to do that. But yes, religion does change people's thinking form the individual to the collective, it's just that in the process it can cause so much suffering.

Right, so we can for sure say that religion lends itself to the process of collectivization (in some scenarios), but this process alone is not good or bad.

East of Eden · Post by **East of Eden** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:22 pm

Some of the wars on the OP are simply tribalism. There are some on both sides of the Northern Ireland conflict, for instance, who are agnostics.

In the case of the 30 Years War, recent scholarship has shown religion to be one of several factors.

We have huge problems with Islam, to be sure, but it is a bit disengenous to use this problem to smear other religions because of this issue. Bhuddists, Amish, Mormons, Presbyterians, etc. have nothing to do with it, any more than Richard Dawkins does.