The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

[TXatheist]

This is something that I have never understood. But to be honest, I have never done any extensive research on it, so hopefully this will be an enlightening thread for me as well as others.

Why did the Christian god create the tree of knowledge of good and evil and then place it in the garden? Moreover, why would he do it if he knew man would fall because of it (I'm assuming god is omniscient as Christians claim)? Isn't this like setting a toy in front of a child and demanding that they not touch it and then leaving the room, all the while knowing they will touch it and that you will have to punish them for it? I can actually understand doing that if one were trying to teach a child a particular lesson; maybe showing them that there are consequences for disobedience. It's still cruel to set them up like that. Regardless, man's punishment was not simply given to teach him a lesson. Everything changed after Adam and Eve ate the fruit. God cursed the ground, cursed man, cursed woman, new pains arose, new toils, man became mortal, animals became carnivores etc. Every hardship that every one of billions and billions of people has ever had to go through came from that one disobedient act.

So why did god do it? What purpose did it serve other than to ruin what he had created? After one of god's angels went bad, he had to kick him out of heaven. Then he creates his ultimate creation, man, and then shoves the very thing that will ruin man right in front of him and says, "don't touch." It almost seems like he is a glutton for punishment.

[Coyotero]

Always wondered about this myself. Why didn't he just put up a damn fence?

[TXatheist]

Always wondered about this myself. Why didn't he just put up a damn fence?

So far, I can only assume that it is just part of the "story" man created in order to explain things he could not explain otherwise. It helps to explain why a good, god-fearing, loyal servant must live a hard life when a loving god that is supposed to be taking care of him exists.

It wouldn't make sense to a primitive man that his wife should go through so much pain while giving birth to life. Here she is giving him a son or a daughter, bringing another human being into existence, and yet she is screaming her head off in agony. The story of the tree explains the pain. Apparently god shrank the female's cervix quite a bit after the incident with the tree.

A primitive, god-fearing man would think that a good god would supply bountiful crops for him to reap for being a good servant. This story explains why he must instead toil hard in order to get food.

The primitive, god-fearing man might also think that a good god who created man and beast would want the two to live in harmony. The story of the tree, however, explains why many animals want to eat man rather than live in harmony with him.

Basically, any time man faces any hardship and he looks up at the sky and asks, "why god," the answer is, "because Adam and Eve ate the fruit." This insures that the answer is never...... simply nothing, because nothing is there. It is easier for man to be self-punishing and believe that he simply isn't good enough for god than to accept that things just are, and there is no god.

Either that or Lowes hadn't been invented yet, so there was no place to get the materials to build the fence.

[Scotracer]

It is an obvious metaphor...perhaps for the choice between innocence and...the other side (is there a word for the opposite of innocence?!). It was definitely no deciduous plant as the Garden of Eden never existed.

It was poorly thought out (I mean who creates two contradictory accounts within a few pages of each other?!) and I can only guess written by extremely primitive men.

There is no requirement for Free will and the opportunity to do everything to coexist. Just because I cannot push a button to blow up the sun doesn't mean I don't have free will.

...although I wish I did have that version of free-will.

But if we look at the OT as a whole it reads like some power-mad massochistic villain that basically wants to **** with everything for his own perverted pleasure.

[micatala]

Always wondered about this myself. Why didn't he just put up a damn fence?

Or do like He did after evicting them. Put a cherubim with flaming swords at entrance to keep them out.



But seriously, I think the story is not meant to be taken literally. It is meant as a mythological explanation for a number of realities, like the pain of childbirth, the toil men must endure, etc. Note that it assumes implicitly that man is entering into the agricultural age, and either skips the hunter-gatherer lifestyle that preceded it, or is using the garden as an idealized version of that life style. Certainly it shows no knowledge of actually engaging in such a hunter-gatherer life style.

[Coyotero]

But seriously, I think the story is not meant to be taken literally. It is meant as a mythological explanation for a number of realities, like the pain of childbirth, the toil men must endure, etc. Note that it assumes implicitly that man is entering into the agricultural age, and either skips the hunter-gatherer lifestyle that preceded it, or is using the garden as an idealized version of that life style. Certainly it shows no knowledge of actually engaging in such a hunter-gatherer life style.

Kind of a poetic allegory of descending from being one with our natural world and thus being 'tainted' by becoming civilized (At least that's how it looks to a filthy heathen like me)... interesting.

[Ankhhape]

If I may project my beliefs concerning this:

The Fall represents mankind's and natures fall into materialism. This Fall shields us from the spiritual world and opens an Abyss between Man and the Divine. The Right Hand Path of traditional Qabalah aims to restore the original harmonic relation between man and the Divine.

The Left Hand Path fulfills and deepens the Fall. The Dark Adept continues the Fall from the Abrahamic God to reach individual divinity.
The reason behind the Fall is often described as being hubris, man's search for knowledge and forces that originally were not meant for him to acquire. The Left Hand Path leads to a second birth, a spiritual rebirth as a god.

Lucifer-Daath, the original Serpent, represents the divine force of creation that is able to carry out the idea of creation.
Lucifer-Daath sinks down to man's level and awakens the power of creation and the sexual energy in man. Thus, man can reach the knowledge which was previously only accessible to God.

The adepts of the Left Hand Path glorify the Fall and allow the destruction to be fulfilled. Leading away from the Tree of Life and further into the Tree of Knowledge.

[Kadmon]

This is something that I have never understood. But to be honest, I have never done any extensive research on it, so hopefully this will be an enlightening thread for me as well as others.

Why did the Christian god create the tree of knowledge of good and evil and then place it in the garden? Moreover, why would he do it if he knew man would fall because of it (I'm assuming god is omniscient as Christians claim)? Isn't this like setting a toy in front of a child and demanding that they not touch it and then leaving the room, all the while knowing they will touch it and that you will have to punish them for it? I can actually understand doing that if one were trying to teach a child a particular lesson; maybe showing them that there are consequences for disobedience. It's still cruel to set them up like that. Regardless, man's punishment was not simply given to teach him a lesson. Everything changed after Adam and Eve ate the fruit. God cursed the ground, cursed man, cursed woman, new pains arose, new toils, man became mortal, animals became carnivores etc. Every hardship that every one of billions and billions of people has ever had to go through came from that one disobedient act.

So why did god do it? What purpose did it serve other than to ruin what he had created? After one of god's angels went bad, he had to kick him out of heaven. Then he creates his ultimate creation, man, and then shoves the very thing that will ruin man right in front of him and says, "don't touch." It almost seems like he is a glutton for punishment.

Would You Like The Long / Short Version ? Reson Why I Ask Some Might Call It Random Ramblings , And That Because It Would Be Hard / Chip / Pick Apart .

[Angel]

This is something that I have never understood. But to be honest, I have never done any extensive research on it, so hopefully this will be an enlightening thread for me as well as others.

Why did the Christian god create the tree of knowledge of good and evil and then place it in the garden?

The Bible does not mention why but that is not to assume that He created it with bad intentions. Perhaps God wanted Adam and Eve to gain moral knowledge in a particular way, that way being through a tree.

Moreover, why would he do it if he knew man would fall because of it (I'm assuming god is omniscient as Christians claim)?

Well if God is to create humans with free-will or who would be responsible for their actions and destiny, He couldn't simply create things the way He wants. That's not to say that He creates bad circumstances but rather what He creates would leave the potential for bad which would play out based on what we choose to do.

Isn't this like setting a toy in front of a child and demanding that they not touch it and then leaving the room, all the while knowing they will touch it and that you will have to punish them for it?

In addition to my last statement which is relevant here, I'd also add that the Tree was not the problem but rather disobedience or not listening to God. As such, a better question might be, why didn't Adam and Eve listen to God.

So why did god do it?

Perhaps God was planning on letting them eat from the Tree later on, but we can only assume but not to necessarily mean He had bad intentions.

What purpose did it serve other than to ruin what he had created?

God's purpose for the Tree could've been contrary to Adam and Eve's decision. We should not mistake the two as if they go together. God's purpose was clearly for them NOT to touch the tree and perhaps for the time being, but Adam and Eve clearly planned otherwise.

After one of god's angels went bad, he had to kick him out of heaven. Then he creates his ultimate creation, man, and then shoves the very thing that will ruin man right in front of him and says, "don't touch." It almost seems like he is a glutton for punishment.

God is willing to sacrifice what He wants even if He foreknows they may lead to a bad outcome due to our choices. As I mentioned already, God does that to allow the exercise of free-will or so we can be responsible for our own choices. Perhaps He's chosen the most challenging way (most challenging from our standpoint) because we have to choose good even in the face of bad circumstances rather than God manipulating every circumstance to be good as to make it potentially easier for us to choose good. Again, I don't see anything *morally* bad with this but rather it just makes life more challenging for us.

[orthodox]

Man and Woman were created in the image of God in a state of perfection (not in our present state).

Man and Woman were given free-will to act freely. Because God saw we would fall to temptation should he have put us in a box or remove the temptation? He did not because he gave us the will to act.

If God gives us free-will, but constantly alters the situation so we act in accordance to his will...is that free will?

Man and Woman committed the sin but God did not curse them. It was because of the sin that the state of perfection was defiled and we took on flesh and death came to Man and Woman.

But God would not let his creation suffer forever and he tried to redeem them. He gave the law to the Jews etc. But to release Man from the bonds of death, perfect love needed to be displayed. No man could do so, so God sent his son to become Man and until death display perfect love. Even during his passion he harbored no hate and asked God to "forgive them for they know not what they do". Thus perfect love was shown and death could not overcome perfect love and contain Christ. Thus Man is redeemed through Christ.

Hopefully that's a sufficient explanation...allbeit short.