Why isn't perfection possible?

[McCulloch]

[T]he Sermon on the Mount [...] sets a high standard of Godliness, and convicts of sin, but anyone who understands the Biblical issues involved in progressive sanctification by the Holy Spirit should admit that perfection is not possible by mere mortals on this earth.

Matthew 5:48
"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Why is it that many Christians feel that the Holy Spirit cannot actually do what Jesus said should be done? Why is it that Christians, with the Holy Spirit dwelling within them, cannot choose to stop sinning? What are the Biblical issues supporting this doctrine of inevitable failure on the part of every Christian's best effort?

[elucidate]

Second, what does it mean to be perfect? If we were perfect, wouldn't we be equals with God/Jesus?

"perfect" would imply sinlessness if one uses the Biblcal definition. It does not imply like-ness or cloning, so, no, one would not be equal with God or Jesus.

I question that sinlessness is the Biblical definition. I have read that it means whole or even mature, in the Bible.
"Sinlessness is a narrow doctrinal idea and not so much a Biblical one.
Perfect could also mean doing right and being just and not necessarily the "sinlessness" as a negative connotation of not ever making a mistake, breaKING A LAW OR COMMANDMENT, error or even sin as in falling short of the glory of on which seems to me to be everything but God. I suspect a Pauline interpretation is behind your interpretation or reinterpretation of the Hebrew writings and thought.
I doubt we could really perceive perfect as we would need a perfect perception which we don't have. No one can be said to do that except God b definition if sin means falling short of the glory of God or doing some wrong. I think you blur the lines with metaphor.

6 of one; half a donzen of the others:


1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. I John 3:6.

[I AM ALL I AM]

Is perfection of self based upon what you think, speak, act, or is it based upon the result that you get from thinking, speaking, acting ?

[McCulloch]

The following is a short study in Biblical Christianity, and concerns Progressive Sanctification.
[...]
So we see that while Jesus calls the church to perfection, that is a life-long process of progressive sanctification by the Holy Spirit and God, as noted above.

No doubt that it is a process, but you have failed to provide any reason why this process can never be completed in any individual.

[McCulloch]

1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. I John 3:6.

Sure, every Christian must confess his past sins, and not pretend that he has never sinned. But eventually, if God abideth in the Christian, sin will not. Right?

[elucidate]

Is perfection of self based upon what you think, speak, act, or is it based upon the result that you get from thinking, speaking, acting ?

My presumption, based on the way I understand the Biblical record, is that it would be all of the above.

[Cathar1950]

Second, what does it mean to be perfect? If we were perfect, wouldn't we be equals with God/Jesus?

"perfect" would imply sinlessness if one uses the Biblcal definition. It does not imply like-ness or cloning, so, no, one would not be equal with God or Jesus.

I question that sinlessness is the Biblical definition. I have read that it means whole or even mature, in the Bible.
"Sinlessness is a narrow doctrinal idea and not so much a Biblical one.
Perfect could also mean doing right and being just and not necessarily the "sinlessness" as a negative connotation of not ever making a mistake, breaking A LAW OR COMMANDMENT, error or even sin as in falling short of the glory of on which seems to me to be everything but God. I suspect a Pauline interpretation is behind your interpretation or reinterpretation of the Hebrew writings and thought.
I doubt we could really perceive perfect as we would need a perfect perception which we don't have. No one can be said to do that except God b definition if sin means falling short of the glory of God or doing some wrong. I think you blur the lines with metaphor.

6 of one; half a donzen of the others:


1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. I John 3:6.

How is the unknown author of this letter using the word "sin"?
Mind you I am not buying into all the sin stuff but for the sake of some clarity I think we should know what he means by sin. Then we need to know how sin relates to what ever it is you want to mean by perfection.

Now if I want to go with perfection means mature or even whole, adult or grown up and pick any meaning of sin but I am going to pick '"falling short of the glory of God" JUST FOR THE AMBIGUITY. So now we got if we claim we have not falling short we are falling short.
So after reading your rather circular sin ritual what is it that you would like it to mean ad how does it relate to perfection, what ever you like it to mean?

[elucidate]

1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. I John 3:6.

Sure, every Christian must confess his past sins, and not pretend that he has never sinned. But eventually, if God abideth in the Christian, sin will not. Right?

That would be the objective, yes.

[elucidate]

Second, what does it mean to be perfect? If we were perfect, wouldn't we be equals with God/Jesus?

"perfect" would imply sinlessness if one uses the Biblcal definition. It does not imply like-ness or cloning, so, no, one would not be equal with God or Jesus.

I question that sinlessness is the Biblical definition. I have read that it means whole or even mature, in the Bible.
"Sinlessness is a narrow doctrinal idea and not so much a Biblical one.
Perfect could also mean doing right and being just and not necessarily the "sinlessness" as a negative connotation of not ever making a mistake, breaking A LAW OR COMMANDMENT, error or even sin as in falling short of the glory of on which seems to me to be everything but God. I suspect a Pauline interpretation is behind your interpretation or reinterpretation of the Hebrew writings and thought.
I doubt we could really perceive perfect as we would need a perfect perception which we don't have. No one can be said to do that except God b definition if sin means falling short of the glory of God or doing some wrong. I think you blur the lines with metaphor.

6 of one; half a donzen of the others:


1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. I John 3:6.

How is the unknown author of this letter using the word "sin"?
Mind you I am not buying into all the sin stuff but for the sake of some clarity I think we should know what he means by sin. Then we need to know how sin relates to what ever it is you want to mean by perfection.

Now if I want to go with perfection means mature or even whole, adult or grown up and pick any meaning of sin but I am going to pick '"falling short of the glory of God" JUST FOR THE AMBIGUITY. So now we got if we claim we have not falling short we are falling short.
So after reading your rather circular sin ritual what is it that you would like it to mean ad how does it relate to perfection, what ever you like it to mean?

Good question. The Hebrew and Greek words translated "sin" throughout the Bible revolve largely around two major concepts. The first is that of transgression. To transgress means "to step across" or "to go beyond a set boundary or limit." Most of the other words translated "sin" in the Bible involve a second concept, “to miss the mark.� So, it would be a combination of transgressing the line that God would place in which he defines sin (stealing, lying, etc), and missing the mark established for each mans destiny. Having all those in place would merit some kind of perfection.

[McCulloch]

1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. I John 3:6.

Sure, every Christian must confess his past sins, and not pretend that he has never sinned. But eventually, if God abideth in the Christian, sin will not. Right?

That would be the objective, yes.

And, is the objective achievable? With God's help, of course.

[elucidate]

1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. I John 3:6.

Sure, every Christian must confess his past sins, and not pretend that he has never sinned. But eventually, if God abideth in the Christian, sin will not. Right?

That would be the objective, yes.

And, is the objective achievable? With God's help, of course.

I have no reason to believe that God would place an objective and at the same time claim, BTW you can't reach it. I am aware that most "Christianese" doctrines imply that it is a holy excercise in futility, but it really makes no sense to me.