Am I A Christian?

[MaxPower]

What is a Christian, how do I join this elite club? I believe in Christ and accept Him as my personal Savior and know that only through Him can I be saved; yet my friend said that his pastor said that I wasn't a Christian.

Can someone define for me what a Christian is so that (a) I can know if I fit in this group and (b) if I want to fit in this group

[kayky]

All denominations are more or less corrupt in doctrine and/or behavior, and in my experience the same is pretty much true for non-denominational churches as well. In all likelihood the Church, as Jesus Christ intended it to be, has not existed on earth since at least the time of Constantine.

Actually it was pretty much a mess a the time of Constantine. He had strong political reasons for wanting a unified Christian doctrine, but it went back and forth between the Arians and the Trinitarians with each change of emperor until the end of the fourth century. Actually, I doubt if there's ever been a single, unified Church.

You can study and compare doctrines and the history behind them, but ultimately what you accept as the truth is a matter of faith.

But it seems you have already said that faith cannot be trusted. So how do you know when you've uncovered truth?

So there's a chance you could get it wrong and wind up in hell?

Exactly.

That sounds like a pretty horrible belief to have to live with. Why do you believe it?

God has revealed to you knowledge of Jesus?

Are you saying He has not?

I'm just asking a question. Perhaps you could describe to me how this happened.

So neither the Mormans nor the Roman Catholics have faith?

That is not what I said. Both Mormons and Roman Catholics have faith, but in my view their faith is false. But I cannot prove the validity or the falseness of their faith this side of eternity.

Nor your own either, it seems.

[jeafl]

Eleven of the apostles were confused and did not totally understand JESUS yet they were filled with the HOLY SPIRIT and saved.

And before they all died each of these 11 lost their confusion and had a perfect understanding of who and what Jesus Christ is. They had no doubts about His virgin birth, His eternity, His divinity, His equality with God the Father, His equality with God the Holy Ghost, His crucifixion unto death, His bodily resurrection or that salvation and eternal life is possible only through faith in Him and Him alone.

Do you have any evidence or scriptural basis to support this idea?

You mean other than the entire Christian Bible?

[kayky]

Where in the Bible do we have 11 apostles attesting to the virgin birth?

[kayky]

And how do you even know that the Bible is true if you can't even validate the veracity of your own faith?

[jeafl]

I feel if the text of the Bible is taken literally that Jesus did worship the Father, prayed to him, etc., but yet some how the Trinity doctrine claims this does not mean they are separate gods. When Jesus was praying, was he talking to himself?

Jesus Christ is God, but following His birth to a human virgin Jesus Christ also became a human being.

I Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

It was the human portion of Jesus that was worshipping God.

So what basis does anyone have for saying that the Mormon concept of Jesus is different?

A simple comparison between the Holy Bible and Mormon doctrine is not enough?

My understanding is that the Mormons do not believe Jesus Christ is an eternal being. But this contradicts Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Note: Many post-1611 English translations of the Bible say that Jesus Christ has origins in this verse- meaning He is a created being and thus cannot be God. But the orthodox view has more manuscript support. Just prior to Constantine’s capture of the entire Roman Empire the Emperor Diocletian launched the most severe persecution the Church had experienced up to that time. Diocletian ordered all Christians to hand over their copies of Scripture so they could be destroyed. Some false Christians complied. Other false Christians made intentionally corrupt copies and turned them in as decoys. Legitimate Christians refused the emperor’s demand and many suffered persecution and martyrdom as a consequence. I would venture that the corrupt manuscripts that go into modern English translations originated with the decoys.

[kayky]

Note: Many post-1611 English translations of the Bible say that Jesus Christ has origins in this verse- meaning He is a created being and thus cannot be God. But the orthodox view has more manuscript support. Just prior to Constantine’s capture of the entire Roman Empire the Emperor Diocletian launched the most severe persecution the Church had experienced up to that time. Diocletian ordered all Christians to hand over their copies of Scripture so they could be destroyed. Some false Christians complied. Other false Christians made intentionally corrupt copies and turned them in as decoys. Legitimate Christians refused the emperor’s demand and many suffered persecution and martyrdom as a consequence. I would venture that the corrupt manuscripts that go into modern English translations originated with the decoys.

Why do folks put more stock in King James than modern translators?

[Artheos]

Note: Many post-1611 English translations of the Bible say that Jesus Christ has origins in this verse- meaning He is a created being and thus cannot be God. But the orthodox view has more manuscript support. Just prior to Constantine’s capture of the entire Roman Empire the Emperor Diocletian launched the most severe persecution the Church had experienced up to that time. Diocletian ordered all Christians to hand over their copies of Scripture so they could be destroyed. Some false Christians complied. Other false Christians made intentionally corrupt copies and turned them in as decoys. Legitimate Christians refused the emperor’s demand and many suffered persecution and martyrdom as a consequence. I would venture that the corrupt manuscripts that go into modern English translations originated with the decoys.

Why do folks put more stock in King James than modern translators?

Isn't a reason covered in the post you are responding to?

[jeafl]

But it seems you have already said that faith cannot be trusted. So how do you know when you've uncovered truth?

I didn't say that faith could not be trusted, only that whether or not your faith is true cannot be known this side of eternity- until judgment day you must have faith that your faith is true. You cannot seek proof without negating your faith. People trust in their faith all the time; you cannot claim that your faith is valid if you are unwilling to tell someone else that their variant faith is wrong, and you couldn't claim your faith is valid if you don't trust it.

That sounds like a pretty horrible belief to have to live with. Why do you believe it?

Faith is the antithesis of doubt. I do not doubt my salvation in Christ because I trust that my faith in Christ is valid. That faith can be tested, but not proven. I couldn’t seek proof without conceding doubt and if I doubt I have no faith. Matthew 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

I'm just asking a question. Perhaps you could describe to me how this happened.

Let me clarify: Do you believe it is possible for God to reveal His Son Jesus Christ to anyone? If you do not believe such a revelation is possible I don’t see what purpose it would serve to explain the process to you. Furthermore, just because God reveals Himself to man does not mean that man will heed that revelation or even acknowledge it. Adam and Eve had direct contact with the Lord God following their creation by Him- but this didn’t stop Adam and Eve from ignoring the Lord God’s commandment to not eat the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They doubted that what God said was true even though they received the truth directly from God. God’s revelation of His Son Jesus Christ comes in the Holy Bible, but not everyone chooses to accept it.

Nor your own either, it seems.

Why would you assume that faith needs proof of any kind? Hebrews 11:1 …faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

[jeafl]

Where in the Bible do we have 11 apostles attesting to the virgin birth?

The entire New Testament.

[jeafl]

And how do you even know that the Bible is true if you can't even validate the veracity of your own faith?

I don’t need to validate my own faith. As I have just explained seeking validation means that I have doubts about my faith and doubt and faith are mutually exclusive.