How do you regard God?

[Compassionist]

I am a Strong Agnostic regarding the true nature of reality and the existence of God(s). Hence, I have selected the last option in the poll. Thank you for your participation.

[Compassionist]

I chose "construct" because, IMU, the word God refers synonymously to the same "God," but with different, man-inspired and propagated theological spins.

FWIW, I see "God" as whatever discipline motivates one's believes and actions. But, perhaps the quote attributed to Martin Luther better expresses whatever "God" is or may be:

Whatever is most important to a man is his God.

That's an excellent quotation for defining God. In this sense, my 'God' is compassion.

[bernee51]

I beg to differ....

Without theism there would be no atheism.

All that is required to claim atheism is to have no belief in the existence of deities.

Some atheists may also believe that gods do not exist.

Thank you for providing me with food for thought. Isn't the belief that "There are no gods" itself a belief, and thus dependent on faith?

To not have god belief is not a belief.

To believe that god’s do not exist is a belief.

I do not see how this can be construed as ‘faith’…unless there is an equivocation over the word ‘faith’

What we perceive of the world - our perceptions being thoughts, ideas, relationships is a mental construct and therefore IS illusory.

I realise that we do not truly know the reality we exist in, we only know our sensory-cognitive-affective model of reality as it is updated all the time we are alive. We even have a model of ourselves within this model of reality. I agree that this is illusory. I do not think it is possible to transcend this sensory-cognitive-affective construct - not unless one becomes omnipotent and omniscient. I am not convinced it is possible to become omnipotent and omniscient. In a sense, this construct is Maya. I would be grateful for your comments on this.

Maintaining realization (making it real) is always the issue. How we relate to this ‘sensory-cognitive-affective model of reality’ is based on ‘the past’ and ‘anticipations of the future’. The only way to transcend this is to act in the present moment. Not an easy - perhaps impossible - ask.

That is why I added the second option in my poll. Of course, I cannot be certain that this is the case. What do you think? Which option did you choose?

I am in no doubt that god is a construct.

I am also in no doubt that if people act as if this concept is an extant reality it may as well be (for them) an extant reality.

I still say that it is impossible to prove the non-existence of fairies. What do you think? Thanks again for giving me so much food for thought.

I guess then we revert to probabilities. What are the odds of fairies being extant entities?

Probably more likely than gods…

[Compassionist]

Maintaining realization (making it real) is always the issue. How we relate to this ‘sensory-cognitive-affective model of reality’ is based on ‘the past’ and ‘anticipations of the future’. The only way to transcend this is to act in the present moment. Not an easy - perhaps impossible - task.

Buddhism recommends mindfulness. It is not easy. I meditate. I have experienced what is called satori on many occasions. Can you relate to this?

I am also in no doubt that if people act as if this concept is an extant reality it may as well be (for them) an extant reality.

I agree with this. Thanks again.

[bernee51]

Maintaining realization (making it real) is always the issue. How we relate to this ‘sensory-cognitive-affective model of reality’ is based on ‘the past’ and ‘anticipations of the future’. The only way to transcend this is to act in the present moment. Not an easy - perhaps impossible - task.

Buddhism recommends mindfulness.

I'm not sure if 'recommends' is the word I would use.

It is not easy.

That is true.

I meditate. I have experienced what is called satori on many occasions.

As I understand it satori is a zen term referring to enlighenment. To have experienced it on many occasions suggests becoming 'unenlightened' in order to experience it again.

What practice brings about 'unenlightenment'?

Can you relate to this?

I may

[Compassionist]

Maintaining realization (making it real) is always the issue. How we relate to this ‘sensory-cognitive-affective model of reality’ is based on ‘the past’ and ‘anticipations of the future’. The only way to transcend this is to act in the present moment. Not an easy - perhaps impossible - task.

Buddhism recommends mindfulness.

I'm not sure if 'recommends' is the word I would use.

I am not sure about my use of the word recommend either. I was not sure when I was deciding to use it and I am still not sure. What word would you use?

I meditate. I have experienced what is called satori on many occasions.

As I understand it satori is a zen term referring to enlighenment. To have experienced it on many occasions suggests becoming 'unenlightened' in order to experience it again.

What practice brings about 'unenlightenment'?

I suffer from bipolar disorder. It contributes to both 'enlightenment' and 'unenlightenment' depending on which phase I am going through. I was diagnosed in March 1998 when I was 18 years and 9 months old. I don't know how much you know about it. Perhaps I should not have used the word satori as it is considered to be lasting. Everything about me waxes and wanes like the phases of the moon due to bipolar disorder. Perhaps kensho would be a more accurate word choice. I am revising my original statement to say that: I have experienced what is called kensho on many occasions. Do you understand?

Here is a mood chart that shows various mental states that can come with bipolar disorder (manic-depression):

+5: Psychotically high mood. Total loss of judgement, exorbitant spending, religious or other delusions or hallucinations.

+4: Semi-psychotically high mood. Partially lost touch with reality, incoherent, no sleep, paranoid and vindictive, reckless behaviour.

+3: Very high mood. Inflated self-esteem, rapid thoughts and speech, counter-productive simultaneous tasks.

+2: High mood. Very productive, everything to excess, charming and talkative.

+1: Happy mood. Self-esteem good, optimistic, sociable and articulate, good decisions and get work done.

0: Mood in balance, no symptoms of depression or mania.

-1: Sad mood. Slight withdrawal from social situations, concentration less than usual, slight agitation.

-2: Low mood and anxiety. Feeling of panic and anxiety, concentration difficult and memory poor, some comfort in routine.

-3: Very low mood. Slow thinking, no appetite, need to be alone, sleep excessive or difficult, everything a struggle.

-4: Extremely low mood. Feeling of hopelessness and guilt, thoughts of suicide, little movement, impossible to do anything.

-5: Severest low mood. Endless suicidal thoughts, no way out, no movement, everything is bleak and it will always be like this.

Given that true empathy is impossible (i.e. only I know what it is like to be me and only you know what it is like to be you) I don't expect you to fully empathise. Although various degrees of empathy is possible depending on the similarities of the experiences and the experiencers.

Can you relate to this?

I may

What do you mean? Thank you.

[bernee51]

Maintaining realization (making it real) is always the issue. How we relate to this ‘sensory-cognitive-affective model of reality’ is based on ‘the past’ and ‘anticipations of the future’. The only way to transcend this is to act in the present moment. Not an easy - perhaps impossible - task.

Buddhism recommend mindfulness.

I'm not sure if 'recommends' is the word I would use.

I am not sure about my use of the word recommend either. I was not sure when I was deciding to use it and I am still not sure. What word would you use?

I would probably phrase it – an aspect of Buddhist teachings includes an encouragement toward the development of mindfulness.

I meditate. I have experienced what is called satori on many occasions.

As I understand it satori is a zen term referring to enlighenment. To have experienced it on many occasions suggests becoming 'unenlightened' in order to experience it again.

What practice brings about 'unenlightenment'?

I suffer from bipolar disorder. It contributes to both 'enlightenment' and 'unenlightenment' depending on which phase I am going through. I was diagnosed in March 1998 when I was 18 years and 9 months old. I don't know how much you know about it. Perhaps I should not have used the word satori as it is considered to be lasting. Everything about me waxes and wanes like the phases of the moon due to bipolar disorder. Perhaps kensho would be a more accurate word choice. I am revising my original statement to say that: I have experienced what is called kensho on many occasions. Do you understand?

Yes – I am with you on this – I understand what you are talking about.

What meditative technique do you use?

Here is a mood chart that shows various mental states that can come with bipolar disorder (manic-depression):

+5: Psychotically high mood. Total loss of judgement, exorbitant spending, religious or other delusions or hallucinations

….

-5: Severest low mood. Endless suicidal thoughts, no way out, no movement, everything is bleak and it will always be like this.

I’m sure such swings are quite disruptive in your life.

What levels do you habitually swing between?

Did ‘being diagnosed’ affect your way of looking at things.?

Can you relate to this?

I used to be very cynical of so called depressive disorders – I have grown to be less so.

What regime of ‘treatment’ do you follow?

I may

What do you mean? Thank you.

My first meditative experiences were in my mid teens.

I can relate to many of the reported effects of a meditation.

[Compassionist]

I would probably phrase it – an aspect of Buddhist teachings includes an encouragement toward the development of mindfulness.

I prefer your way of putting it because it is more accurate. I will strive to pick my words and sentence structure with greater precision. I rather like your approach.

What meditative technique do you use?

Simply focusing on deeply breathing in and out slowly. I have also tried using various mantras but I prefer the breathing technique as it is more effective for me.

Here is a mood chart that shows various mental states that can come with bipolar disorder (manic-depression):

+5: Psychotically high mood. Total loss of judgement, exorbitant spending, religious or other delusions or hallucinations

….

-5: Severest low mood. Endless suicidal thoughts, no way out, no movement, everything is bleak and it will always be like this.

I’m sure such swings are quite disruptive in your life.

What levels do you habitually swing between?

Did ‘being diagnosed’ affect your way of looking at things.?

Yes, such swings have been hugely disruptive for me and others around me. I have never gone higher than +3 but I have friends who have. My bipolar disorder is lopesided and I have many more depressive episodes than highs. Some people have it the other way round. The lowest I have been was -5. I used to swing a lot from -5 to +3 but recently I have stabilised to swinging between +1 to -1. Again, even this is lopesided. I am more often at -1 than at +1.

I used to be a medical student. I was a medical student for nearly five years. All my plans have had to change drastically due to bipolar disorder. These days I work as a Support Worker for people with severe and enduring mental health problems and challenging behaviours. I am talking about people with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, people who have been to prison and are on compulsory treatment orders, people who are aggressive and violent or immersed in delusions or compulsions or depression.

I think that being at -5 is the worst experience I have ever had. And I have had many unpleasant experiences e.g. physical, sexual, verbal and emotional abuse and financial exploitation by various people in various places from early childhood to recent times. I am not going into all the details.

Being diagnosed with bipolar disorder was helpful because it made me realise that I was not the only one with such mood disorders. At least 1% of humanity have bipolar disorder. The number is probably higher due to missed diagnoses and incorrect diagnoses.

Can you relate to this?

I used to be very cynical of so called depressive disorders – I have grown to be less so.

What regime of ‘treatment’ do you follow?

I have been on many different combinations of medications since March 1998. None of them worked very well for very long for me. I have even had Electro Convulsive Treatment (ECT) 9 times for severe depression as the medications were not working. Due to the ineffectiveness of the treatments and various side-effects, I am currently without medications. I don't know how well I will remain and for how long. Time will tell. I take nothing for granted. I take fish oil rich in Omega 3, 6 and 9 fatty acids as they have mood stabilising effects. The cod liver oil tastes awful but I think the benefits are worth the inconvenience.

Why were you cynical of 'so called depressive disorders'? What changed your mind? Where have you been on the mood chart across your lifetime? The average person tends to swing only between +1 and -1 with most of the time being at zero. Some people tend to be dysthymic and are mostly at -1 and others tend to be euthymic and are mostly at +1. Funnily enough, those at zero or -1 tend to be more realistic about life!

[bernee51]

I would probably phrase it – an aspect of Buddhist teachings includes an encouragement toward the development of mindfulness.

I prefer your way of putting it because it is more accurate. I will strive to pick my words and sentence structure with greater precision. I rather like your approach.

What meditative technique do you use?

Simply focusing on deeply breathing in and out slowly. I have also tried using various mantras but I prefer the breathing technique as it is more effective for me.

I have been using various meditation techniques for some years now. I tend to start a ‘sit’ with vipassana-style focus and then let my mantra come into play – I do not force the issue. Sometimes the mantra comes sometimes it doesn’t. The important thing is to observe the mind and the body.

I have just finished reading Mindfulness in plain English by Bhante Henepola Gunaratana – probably one of the better books on the topic – it has really helped my practice.

Being diagnosed with bipolar disorder was helpful because it made me realise that I was not the only one with such mood disorders. At least 1% of humanity have bipolar disorder. The number is probably higher due to missed diagnoses and incorrect diagnoses.

The following was a recent radio article on us eof meditation to ameliorate the symptoms of depression. You may find it interesting

http://www.abc.net.au/local/audio/2009/ ... 573888.htm

Why were you cynical of 'so called depressive disorders'?

I grew up cynical. I could not understand why someone would not just ‘pull up their socks’ and get on with life.

What changed your mind?

I grew up and realized that everyone does not think like me!

Where have you been on the mood chart across your lifetime?

I have been from +4 to -4.

My ‘normal’ range would be -1 to +2
]

[Compassionist]

So sorry for the long delay in replying. I hope to resume our discussion. Thank you for the radio link. It was interesting and helpful.

I grew up and realized that everyone does not think like me!

I don't think it is possible for everyone to think alike. People think differently although there are similarities. Like minds think alike. Some think with greater precision and logical consistency than others.

Where have you been on the mood chart across your lifetime?

I have been from +4 to -4.

My ‘normal’ range would be -1 to +2

That's interesting. Were you diagnosed with bipolar disorder?

[sleepyhead]

Hello compassionist,

I chose the 1st one "God is real and good and praiseworthy for all that exists."

I'm a member of the association for research and enlightenment (ARE). It's an organization centered around the information provided through the trance readings of Edgar Cayce.We refer to God as the creative force. I like this definition of God because it indicates that God doesn't have an individuality. God is bound by certain laws and he doesn't act on whims. In order for him to intervene certain requirements need to be met. He can't act like superman and save anyone from a burning building.

The reason these conditions appeal to me is because during process of my getting religion I became involved in the LDS (Mormon) church. The teachings they have with regards to tithing, sabbath, and dietary laws (they call theirs the word of wisdom) bear no resemblence to what was taught through Moses. I believe in an unchangeable God.