Something Bad Jesus Did

[Ben Masada]

Something Bad Jesus Did


Once, I was asked if there was anything bad Jesus did in his life. I thought for
a while and the following came to my mind:

Yes, there was something Jesus did, which I wish he had not done, because it
does not represent well the People he belonged to.

Once a Gentile Canaanite mother was crying after him, asking for her daughter to
be cured, and Jesus would not give a damn about her. His disciples told him to do
something for that woman or discard her, because she was making them go crazy
with her non-stop crying.

What did Jesus say? I haven't come for Gentiles but ONLY for the House of
Israel. Then, kept on going and the woman kept on crying and following him.

When he could not take any longer, he stopped and told her something like: Hey,
listen, what do you want from me? To cure my daughter Master. No way, I cannot
take of the food of the children and throw it unto the dogs.

He meant the Jews for the children, and the Gentiles for the dogs. But only
after the woman understood and recognized her condition of dog, by saying that
the dogs also feed from the crumbles that fall from the table of the children,
Jesus saw that he would never get rid of that woman. So, he changed his mind and
cured her daughter. Then, to erase a little the impression left on her for being
forced to recognize her doggy condition, he mentioned something about her strong
faith and left.

That was terrible, if we can imagine what that poor woman went through till she
got what she wanted. The text is in Matthew 15:21-28.

Ben

[kayky]

Like a fundamentalist Christian, you think you are reading literal history and so you misunderstand its meaning. From a gnostic perspective, this story has mythological significance. Here the terms Jew and Gentile have nothing to do with ethnicity. The "Jew" (regardless of ethnic background) is the person who is spiritually prepared to hear the truth, while the "Gentile" (regardless of ethnic background) is the person who is not prepared--and can barely deal with the "crumbs" of spiritual truth, much less attempt to consume the entire meal.

Probably because he considered himself the Apostle to the Gentiles, Paul uses the terms "Jew" and "Gentile" in the exact opposite way in his epistles.

[Artheos]

Greetings,

I wanted to understand what was in Matthew 15:21-28, and what I found was:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... version=47;

And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon.
And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.�
But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying out after us.�
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.�
But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.�
And he answered, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.�
She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.�
Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.� And her daughter was healed instantly.

Could this be a demonstration of the effect of great faith?

[Ben Masada]

Like a fundamentalist Christian, you think you are reading literal history and so you misunderstand its meaning. From a gnostic perspective, this story has mythological significance. Here the terms Jew and Gentile have nothing to do with ethnicity. The "Jew" (regardless of ethnic background) is the person who is spiritually prepared to hear the truth, while the "Gentile" (regardless of ethnic background) is the person who is not prepared--and can barely deal with the "crumbs" of spiritual truth, much less attempt to consume the entire meal.

Probably because he considered himself the Apostle to the Gentiles, Paul uses the terms "Jew" and "Gentile" in the exact opposite way in his epistles.

You are right about Paul considering himself the Apostle to the Gentiles, but he never left the Jews in peace. 98 percent of his missionary activities were among the Jews and the converted of the Jews. He was never capable to raise a church of Gentiles from scratch. He always built his churches on the foundations of the Nzarene synagogues like a cuckoo bird that lay her egg in other bird's nests just to take over the bird's parents.

[Ben Masada]

Greetings,

I wanted to understand what was in Matthew 15:21-28, and what I found was:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... version=47;

And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon.
And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.�
But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying out after us.�
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.�
But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.�
And he answered, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.�
She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.�
Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.� And her daughter was healed instantly.

Could this be a demonstration of the effect of great faith?

Yes, but how about the demonstration of Jesus? The willingness of the woman to acknowledge her condition of dog is not the issue here, but Jesus'
attitude to remind her of that condition. That's what is under discussion.

[Artheos]

Greetings,

I wanted to understand what was in Matthew 15:21-28, and what I found was:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... version=47;

And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon.
And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.�
But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying out after us.�
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.�
But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.�
And he answered, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.�
She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.�
Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.� And her daughter was healed instantly.

Could this be a demonstration of the effect of great faith?

Yes, but how about the demonstration of Jesus? The willingness of the woman to acknowledge her condition of dog is not the issue here, but Jesus'
attitude to remind her of that condition. That's what is under discussion.

She appeared to take no offense, have you considered the implications of that in your thoughts about this passage?

Mark 7:24-30 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... version=47;

And from there he arose and went away to the region of Tyre and Sidon. And he entered a house and did not want anyone to know, yet he could not be hidden.
But immediately a woman whose little daughter was possessed by an unclean spirit heard of him and came and fell down at his feet.
Now the woman was a Gentile, a Syrophoenician by birth. And she begged him to cast the demon out of her daughter.
And he said to her, “Let the children be fed first, for it is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.�
But she answered him, “Yes, Lord; yet even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.�
And he said to her, “For this statement you may go your way; the demon has left your daughter.�
And she went home and found the child lying in bed and the demon gone.

[kayky]

You are right about Paul considering himself the Apostle to the Gentiles, but he never left the Jews in peace. 98 percent of his missionary activities were among the Jews and the converted of the Jews. He was never capable to raise a church of Gentiles from scratch. He always built his churches on the foundations of the Nzarene synagogues like a cuckoo bird that lay her egg in other bird's nests just to take over the bird's parents.

I find it so puzzling that you have this degree of bitterness about a man who's been dead for nearly 2000 years. Or do you simply resent the existance of Christianity in general?

[kayky]

Yes, but how about the demonstration of Jesus? The willingness of the woman to acknowledge her condition of dog is not the issue here, but Jesus'
attitude to remind her of that condition. That's what is under discussion.

If that is true, why didn't you respond to my interpretation of the passage?

[Ben Masada]

Greetings,



She appeared to take no offense, have you considered the implications of that in your thoughts about this passage?

Mark 7:24-30 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... version=47;

And from there he arose and went away to the region of Tyre and Sidon. And he entered a house and did not want anyone to know, yet he could not be hidden.
But immediately a woman whose little daughter was possessed by an unclean spirit heard of him and came and fell down at his feet.
Now the woman was a Gentile, a Syrophoenician by birth. And she begged him to cast the demon out of her daughter.
And he said to her, “Let the children be fed first, for it is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.�
But she answered him, “Yes, Lord; yet even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.�
And he said to her, “For this statement you may go your way; the demon has left your daughter.�
And she went home and found the child lying in bed and the demon gone.

How could that poor mother show that she was offended? As long as there was a drop of hope for her daughter to get cured, anything was fair game. The issue, therefore, is not the feelings of the woman but Jesus' attitude. Besides, it was unnecessary. Jesus had no interest in Gentiles to test the faith of that woman. [/b]

[Ben Masada]

You are right about Paul considering himself the Apostle to the Gentiles, but he never left the Jews in peace. 98 percent of his missionary activities were among the Jews and the converted of the Jews. He was never capable to raise a church of Gentiles from scratch. He always built his churches on the foundations of the Nzarene synagogues like a cuckoo bird that lay her egg in other bird's nests just to take over the bird's parents.

I find it so puzzling that you have this degree of bitterness about a man who's been dead for nearly 2000 years. Or do you simply resent the existance of Christianity in general?

You are mistaken about me. It's not bitterness about Jesus. My resentment is against the Christian use of a religious Jew to distort the image of Judaism in the eyes of the world by inserting Hellenistic innovations into it. You guys struggle beyond human strength to prove that Jesus was perfect and report such a human lack of touch with humanity. Aknowledge that Jesus was subject to the same human weaknesses of all of us and a sinner like any other and there is no debate between us. [/b]