The Parable of the Tax Collector

[Goat]

In another thread EastofEden said

In regards to Luke 19:27 that


This is a reference to the final judgement, although some have speculated it to refer to Jerusalem's destruction in A.D. 70. The punishment of those who rebelled and actively opposed the king (see Luke 19:14) was much more severe than that of the negligent servant. You might want to take a lesson from that.


Looking at the context of Luke 19:12-28 does this explaination make sense? How does the story lend itself to the 'final judgment'? Or, is this just making things up because it doesn't fit the story.

[Heterodoxus]

In another thread EastofEden said

In regards to Luke 19:27 that


This is a reference to the final judgement, although some have speculated it to refer to Jerusalem's destruction in A.D. 70. The punishment of those who rebelled and actively opposed the king (see Luke 19:14) was much more severe than that of the negligent servant. You might want to take a lesson from that.


Looking at the context of Luke 19:12-28 does this explaination make sense? How does the story lend itself to the 'final judgment'? Or, is this just making things up because it doesn't fit the story.

I see no reference to any sort of "final judgment" in this Parable of The Pounds, which is similar to Parable of The Talents (MT 25:14-30).

IMU, the Parable of The Pounds indicates that:

1: those who try to make the best use of what their "Lord" has freely given to them will, as a reward, be given even more to possess or do and, as any employee who displays no initiative in the eyes of his/her employer often learns,

2: those who try to make the best use of what their "Lord" has freely given to them will also be given, as a further reward, additional responsibilities that will be taken away from someone who refuses to do their best for their "Lord."

Other possible meanings might be:

* do the very best you can with what you have to work with in your time and place , or

* use it, or lose it!

[Goat]

In another thread EastofEden said

In regards to Luke 19:27 that


This is a reference to the final judgement, although some have speculated it to refer to Jerusalem's destruction in A.D. 70. The punishment of those who rebelled and actively opposed the king (see Luke 19:14) was much more severe than that of the negligent servant. You might want to take a lesson from that.


Looking at the context of Luke 19:12-28 does this explaination make sense? How does the story lend itself to the 'final judgment'? Or, is this just making things up because it doesn't fit the story.

I see no reference to any sort of "final judgment" in this Parable of The Pounds, which is similar to Parable of The Talents (MT 25:14-30).

IMU, the Parable of The Pounds indicates that:

1: those who try to make the best use of what their "Lord" has freely given to them will, as a reward, be given even more to possess or do and, as any employee who displays no initiative in the eyes of his/her employer often learns,

2: those who try to make the best use of what their "Lord" has freely given to them will also be given, as a further reward, additional responsibilities that will be taken away from someone who refuses to do their best for their "Lord."

Other possible meanings might be:

* do the very best you can with what you have to work with in your time and place , or

* use it, or lose it!

In your opinion, what is the intent and meaning of the line 'Bring me my enemies before me and slay them?

[Heterodoxus]

In your opinion, what is the intent and meaning of the line 'Bring me my enemies before me and slay them?

I'm uncertain of the origin of the background story in the Parable of the Pounds. LK 19:27 might be a reference to 1 SAM 15:33.

OTOH, this parable might be a retelling of an historical event experienced by Herod's son, Archelaus, who went to Rome to receive the kingdom of Judea. And, like the nobleman in the parable, Archelaus was followed to Rome by a delegation of Jews opposed to him becoming their ruler. Not being Jewish, I don't know what Archelaus did upon returning to Jerusalem. Perhaps he might have been angry enough to, in the manner of a despot, have had his opponents summoned and slain before him prior to his being exiled by Rome?

Nevertheless, I disagree with those modern followers of Jesus who see an End Time reference in this parable. IMU, words like kill, slay, slaughter, and the like didn't seem to be in Jesus' vocabulary unless he was quoting them from someone else, as he might have done here. And for Jesus to order any opponents, real or imagined, to be slain seems, IMO, to be contrary to his non-Christianized character and nature as revealed in "the Word" of godliness and goodness he taught before his execution.

[Goat]

In your opinion, what is the intent and meaning of the line 'Bring me my enemies before me and slay them?

I'm uncertain of the origin of the background story in the Parable of the Pounds. LK 19:27 might be a reference to 1 SAM 15:33.

OTOH, this parable might be a retelling of an historical event experienced by Herod's son, Archelaus, who went to Rome to receive the kingdom of Judea. And, like the nobleman in the parable, Archelaus was followed to Rome by a delegation of Jews opposed to him becoming their ruler. Not being Jewish, I don't know what Archelaus did upon returning to Jerusalem. Perhaps he might have been angry enough to, in the manner of a despot, have had his opponents summoned and slain before him prior to his being exiled by Rome?

Nevertheless, I disagree with those modern followers of Jesus who see an End Time reference in this parable. IMU, words like kill, slay, slaughter, and the like didn't seem to be in Jesus' vocabulary unless he was quoting them from someone else, as he might have done here. And for Jesus to order any opponents, real or imagined, to be slain seems, IMO, to be contrary to his non-Christianized character and nature as revealed in "the Word" of godliness and goodness he taught before his execution.

Hum.. the 1 sam 15:33 seems very likely.. and I will agree that the parable seems to have a parrell with 1 sam 15. The question is why bring that similarity up.. what is the purpose of that comparison?

[Heterodoxus]

The question is why bring that similarity up.. what is the purpose of that comparison?

If LK 19:27 is a reference to 1 SAM 15:33, then I don't know the specific purpose of that similarity/comparison. But, if it's a reference to the tyrannical and judgmental action of Archelaus after his opponents were successful in thwarting his efforts to become sole ruler of Judea (and the more I investigate the background of this parable the more I'm convinced that it is, and that Archelaus is an archetype of Constantine the Great in Christian History),* then it's possible that those Christians who see in this parable a similar End Time judgmental action by Jesus might be confusing the characters.

The people to whom Jesus was speaking believed Jesus was a messiah and that their concept of "the kingdom of God should immediately appear" when Jesus entered Jerusalem (LK 19:11 KJV). Christians; more specifically, Christians who believe that Jesus is "the Messiah," also believe that, when Jesus returns as the supposed Messiah (מש�יח, mâshîyach) of YHVH-Jehovah, their concept of "the kingdom of God" will immediately appear.

Accordingly, they might want to ask themselves which type of Messiah character they'd prefer to rule over them:

1: a tyrannical and king-like character like Archelaus who, in typical OT/Quranic fashion, slays or slaughters his opposition?
[center]OR[/center]
2: a former teacher of the divine-like principles of goodness, peace, and prosperity by, for, and toward all people, rather than toward only those folks who are just like them?

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* Example: "When Archelaus went to Rome to appear before Caesar Augustus, a delegation of Jews also came to Rome to appeal to Caesar not to let Archelaus be king over them. They recited all his misdeeds before Caesar. Apparently, Caesar was partly convinced, because he gave only part of the land to Archelaus to rule, promising to give the rest -- and the title of 'king' -- if he proved himself just in his reign. (Josephus, Antiquities 17:188-90 (17.11).) When Archelaus returned from Rome, he proved what a terrible king he was by massacring 3,000 of his subjects. (Morris, Luke, p. 274; Josephus, Wars, 2.10-13.) He was finally deposed by the Romans for misgovernment in 6 AD." ~ Dr. Ralph F. Wilson, "Parable of the Pounds (Luke 19:11-27)" @ http://www.jesuswalk.com/lessons/19_11-27.htm