Who does the rejecting? God or us?

[OnceConvinced]

In another thread this comment was made and I believe it is very typical of many Christians:

but when we reject the only means of salvation God could offer us, we are pretty much spitting in God's face and telling him that we don't need his help.

Christians seem to insist that even though we don't believe in something, that we are spitting in the face of that something if we don't believe in it. I guess I'm spitting in the face of the fairies in my garden that I don't believe exist. And perhaps I'm spitting in the face of the Lochness Monster or Hare Krishna, or Allah etc etc etc.

The question that come to mind now is who does the rejecting exactly? The bible seems to suggest God, not us.

Matthew 22:14: For many are called, but few are chosen."

This suggests here that God chooses who are going to be his followers. Therefore those who he does not choose are rejected by him.

Matthew: 7: 21-24
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Quite clearly here, it is God doing the rejecting sending us away from him, not the other way around. And not only that he is rejecting those who claim to love him and follow him.

Mat 25:41-43 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'

Here we have Christ's rejection of those who were simply guilty of doing nothing.

Matt 12:30 He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

Many Christians quote this one to support their argument that it is man who rejects Christ not the other way around. But to me this clearly shows Christ's rejection of us. He is automatically catergorising anyone that doesn't follow him as being against him. If any other human said something like that, we would see it as irrational and downright paranoid. We would scoff. But for some reason, because Jesus said it, it's somehow reasonable.

And finally, the ultimate rejection from God:

Matthew 13:40-42: "Just as the weeds are separated out and burned, so it will be at the end of the world. I, the Son of Man, will send my angels, and they will remove from my Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil, and they will throw them into the furnace and burn them. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

This quite clearly refutes any notion that we choose to go to Hell or that somehow we will end up there by default ie, if we're not saved we're there automatically. Christ quite cleary commands his angels (rather than doing his own dirty work) to round up all sinners and have them thrown into Hell. We will be rejected, just like weeds.

I could go on and list many more scriptures that show God's rejection of us due to certain actions on our part, but I won't. I think I've posted enough.

So, seeing the above scriptures, what can you conclude? Who does the rejecting? Us or God?

[McCulloch]

According to the Bible, faith is a gift from God. So, if I don't have faith, then why not? Could it be that God has not given me faith? If it is God who has not given me faith, then which one of us is doing the rejecting?

[I AM ALL I AM]

Actually, I'd say us because 'God' does not exist and to my way of thinking, you'd have to firstly exist to be able to reject anything.

[malachi4]

this is a very deep subject you touching
And the only way you will ever understand it is by Revelation

Its predestination by foreknowledge don't ever forget that part
So yes your path is already laid before you and nothing that you do can take you away from it

But also its there by foreknowledge


Say you can go into the future and you stay there for the year 2011(full year being invisible)
Wont you know everything about that year
Wont you know that your wife is going to run away with a other man in the middle of April

So back in 2009 you will know exactly what she is going to do in 2011.Even if she say now she loves you and she will never leave you.
You know in 2011 she is going to run away from you

by that foreknowledge you will know what she really is

Quote:
Matthew 22:14: For many are called, but few are chosen."

He called allot (But by foreknowledge he knew only two would come )and they are the chosen ones


Quote:
Matthew: 7: 21-24
Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

This scripture isnt about that, this is following a group or a church
loving your church more than God
listening to your pastor/priest in stead of the bible (word of God)
Trying to do God a favour but being way out of his will
Like Saul when the prophet told him to kill everything
his poeple told him he must keep the Sheep and stuff and then sacrifice it to the lord(very nice thought but he wasnt in the will of the lord )and he was panished therefore
He did it in the name of the lord same like the scipture above says


[33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
[34] Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[35] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[36] Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[37] Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[38] When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[39] Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[40] And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.[41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[42] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[43] I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[44] Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[45] Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[46] And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

This isnt doing nothing my frend
This is being cruel to your fellow brother and sisters

Who does the rejecting US ot GOD
Its US my frend
There were you sitting now you have a choice whether to worship God or not to
So how can you say God is rejecting you

The best example for you would be the story of the mariage supper
Where everyone was invited but only a few exepted the invatation
out of there own will and by his foreknowledge he knew who would and who wouldnt

[JoeyKnothead]

Sorry, stumbled in somehow.

[I AM ALL I AM]

Its predestination by foreknowledge

Predestination and free will are mutually exclusive.

Either your 'God' gave you free will, which your religious text says that apparently your 'God' did, or everything is predestined and you have no control.

Now, if you had no control because 'God' had already set everything up and it is all predestined, then how could you be held accountable for anything that you did as it was predestined and you couldn't change any of it. For instance, it would already be predestined that you are going to 'Hell' for all eternity to suffer in torment because your 'God' has already decided that is what is going to happen to you, predestination.

Nothing you could do could change that by your way of thinking and therefore nothing that you think, do or say will have any impact on the outcome. So, by your way of thinking, predestination, nothing anyone does can change what is going to happen and if this was the scenario, what would be the point of you attempting to influence your 'God' when your 'God' has already made up 'His' mind about what will happen ???

Obviously there are some contradictions that you could have a think about before you post religious propaganda based in fear that has no basis in reality and therefore save everyone from pointing out the obvious for you.

Or you can continue to be blind to reality and continue to live in a fantasy as you appear to be currently doing.

[olavisjo]

So, seeing the above scriptures, what can you conclude? Who does the rejecting? Us or God?

Before we are born, God already knows if we will reject him or not so he predestines our life based on his foreknowledge.

28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[j] who[k] have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

You don't need to tell me that there is a bit of a contradiction there, I can see it myself but when you become a Christian you develop a high tolerance for incongruity.

[InTheFlesh]

God is entitled to extend his grace to whom he will.
From the beginning, he respected the offering of Abel and not of Cain.

Rom.9
[13] As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.


Keep in mind that all of mankind (Adam and Eve) were children of God
until sin entered into the world. Then the enemy sewed his seed.
Now we must wait for harvest time.
Jesus saved all that were his.....

[I AM ALL I AM]

Before we are born, God already knows if we will reject him or not so he predestines our life based on his foreknowledge.

Who told you this ???

Or are you claiming to know the mind of 'God' ???

Or has 'God' spoken to you and told you 'His' thoughts ???

How do you reconcile the fact that the bible states that 'God' gave man free will with the fact that free will and predestination are mutually exclusive ???

What proof do you have that backs up your statement ???

[olavisjo]

Before we are born, God already knows if we will reject him or not so he predestines our life based on his foreknowledge.

Who told you this ???

Romans 8:28-30

Or are you claiming to know the mind of 'God' ???

No.

Or has 'God' spoken to you and told you 'His' thoughts ???

No.

How do you reconcile the fact that the bible states that 'God' gave man free will with the fact that free will and predestination are mutually exclusive ???

You don't need to tell me that there is a bit of a contradiction there, I can see it myself but when you become a Christian you develop a high tolerance for incongruity.

What proof do you have that backs up your statement ???

Romans 8:28-30