Are you Saved? Really?

[Eph]

Cnorman wrote:

The question is not whether the offending Christian is "saved" (as a Jew, I prefer to leave that question to God anyway)

Amos wrote:

I agree that salvation is a gift from God that, try as we might, we can never earn. It is not of works lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:5-11). But the works that are excluded are not works of obedience to God. Obedience to God is essential to salvation (Matthew 7:21, Luke 6:46, Hebrews 5:9, 1 John 5:3, Romans 6:16-23, Galatians 6:7-8, James 2:14-26). Faith itself is a work of obedience to God (John 6:28-29). Salvation is by grace (God's part) through faith (our response to God's invitation). That's what Ephesians 2:8-9 is teaching.
We cannot continue in sin and expect to be saved (Hebrews 3:12-14, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Galatians 5:19-20, Hebrews 10:23-31). We are saved while sinners, but that salvation is not apart from repentance (Acts 2:38, Acts 17:30-31, Acts 11:18, Luke 13:3, 2 Peter 3:9). We have to walk in the light as He is in the light if we expect the blood of Jesus to continually cleanse us from all sin (1 John 1:5-2:6).

So many traditional Christians spend a lot of time declaring that they are “saved� and spend a lot of additional time telling others that they must be “saved� also. Matthew 7:21 says, Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

My question is - Since ultimately it is the Lord's call, is it appropriate to declare Salvation for oneself? Since it is a gift from God, should Christians spend so much time declaring themselves saved, and declaring others saved for that matter?

[jmac2112]

In Catholicism, we claim to be redeemed, i.e. Christ has paid the price for our freedom. Whether or not we are saved depends on whether or not we open the door to God's life in us and keep it open. The whole "saved once and for all" mentality has never made much sense to me, either in the light of Scripture or in the light of common sense.

[cnorman18]

Even when I was a child and a Christian, I always thought the question "Are you saved?" (with the invariably unspoken subtext, "Like I am?") was (a) rude, (b) presumptuous, (c) insufferably smug, and (d) evidence of a probably deeply sinful spiritual pride.

For a Jew, of course, the first question would be, "Saved from what?"

Historically, we have usually been more concerned with being saved from the wrath of Christians than from the wrath of God.

[Amos]

Cnorman wrote:

The question is not whether the offending Christian is "saved" (as a Jew, I prefer to leave that question to God anyway)

Amos wrote:

I agree that salvation is a gift from God that, try as we might, we can never earn. It is not of works lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:5-11). But the works that are excluded are not works of obedience to God. Obedience to God is essential to salvation (Matthew 7:21, Luke 6:46, Hebrews 5:9, 1 John 5:3, Romans 6:16-23, Galatians 6:7-8, James 2:14-26). Faith itself is a work of obedience to God (John 6:28-29). Salvation is by grace (God's part) through faith (our response to God's invitation). That's what Ephesians 2:8-9 is teaching.
We cannot continue in sin and expect to be saved (Hebrews 3:12-14, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Galatians 5:19-20, Hebrews 10:23-31). We are saved while sinners, but that salvation is not apart from repentance (Acts 2:38, Acts 17:30-31, Acts 11:18, Luke 13:3, 2 Peter 3:9). We have to walk in the light as He is in the light if we expect the blood of Jesus to continually cleanse us from all sin (1 John 1:5-2:6).

So many traditional Christians spend a lot of time declaring that they are “saved� and spend a lot of additional time telling others that they must be “saved� also. Matthew 7:21 says, Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

My question is - Since ultimately it is the Lord's call, is it appropriate to declare Salvation for oneself? Since it is a gift from God, should Christians spend so much time declaring themselves saved, and declaring others saved for that matter?

We can know whether or not we are saved because we can look into God’s word and know whether or not we’re doing what He has said we must do in order to be saved (Romans 8:16 (cf. John 15:26, 16:13), 2 Corinthians 13:5, James 1:21-25). The gospel will be the standard of judgment in the last day (John 12:48, Romans 2:16). We can read it and understand it and know whether or not we’re justified in God’s sight (Ephesians 3:3-4, 2 Timothy 2:15, Ephesians 5:17).

It doesn’t make any difference at all what we think about ourselves (2 Corinthians 10:18). Paul said he had lived in all good conscience until that day in Acts 23:1. That included the time he had been persecuting the church (Acts 8:1-3). His personal feelings of well-being and right-standing didn’t make him right. We can declare we are saved all day long. It doesn't mean much.

Of course we must encourage others to be saved, too (Mark 16:15-16, Matthew 28:18-20). They are not saved or lost based on our judgment, but on God's (John 5:22, 27). But we must exercise righteous judgment and help others when they are lost in sin (John 7:24, Matthew 7:5, Galatians 6:1, James 5:19-20).

[TrueValues]

IMHO everyone will be saved just via different modes of transport to the destination, we have a clear set of guidelines on how to make the trip easy, most of the rest of the rules in the Bible aim at saving us from our own stupidity in this life.

A great many may have to swim there through a sea of glue and for a rare few it will be a Star Trek style beam up, but we are all saved even in spite of ourselves in most cases.

Am i saved? Yes. Am i currently taking the easy beam up route? Probably not.

[catalyst]

What I want to know is, what is one allegedly "saved" FROM?

Is it "sin"? which if it is ,as the concept of sin is purely of biblical making, all salvation or "being saved" does, is claim to save you from something, itself created, or perhaps better said, an assumed "solution" to a problem of its own making.

In that case, those who don't believe the stuff in the bible, need no "salvation" because they don't "buy" the concept in the first place.

[TrueValues]

What I want to know is, what is one allegedly "saved" FROM?

Is it "sin"? which if it is ,as the concept of sin is purely of biblical making, all salvation or "being saved" does, is claim to save you from something, itself created, or perhaps better said, an assumed "solution" to a problem of its own making.

In that case, those who don't believe the stuff in the bible, need no "salvation" because they don't "buy" the concept in the first place.

Well im no priest but I will give it a try, im not sure of your Bible knowledge so if the way I describe things is too simplistic please forgive it, I mean no wrong.

There is only one thing that God does not like and that is sin, to find out the nature of sin it is best to google as I cant type for toffee and its a long and complex topic, though I expect a cleverer sort of chap or lady will be along soon that can cut it down to a few words.

That said God does not like sin, does not want to be near it, does not want to see it, would rather turn away for thousands of years until you have rid yourself of sin and not be near you.

You need to save yourself from sin in or to be near to God, now that may not seem like such a big deal to you but that is the crux of what you are to be saved from.

Nobody fully gets it, some get it more than others, but we will all be on the same page in the end.

Hope that helps and if it did not we shall have to wait for a better man/woman to come along.

[catalyst]

Hi true Value,

I sort of have a gist as to the bible and its contents! lol Hence my question.

I realise it is the concept of "sin" of which one claims they should be saved from, however the writings of the bible created the concept OF sin and as such it is merely saving you from what IT SELF, created. As in the only things that are deemed AS "sin" are those bible god is allegedly against, correct?

If someone for example was to stab me intentionally with a knife, the last person I would trust to help heal it, was the one who introduced the knife into my side to begin with.

So that being the case, is it not safer for people to remove themselves as far away from the concept of sin to begin with...ie: stay away from religious doctrine and in this case, that of christianity?

Those whom have not "heard" are innocents, I recall.

What I want to know is, what is one allegedly "saved" FROM?

Is it "sin"? which if it is ,as the concept of sin is purely of biblical making, all salvation or "being saved" does, is claim to save you from something, itself created, or perhaps better said, an assumed "solution" to a problem of its own making.

In that case, those who don't believe the stuff in the bible, need no "salvation" because they don't "buy" the concept in the first place.

Well im no priest but I will give it a try, im not sure of your Bible knowledge so if the way I describe things is too simplistic please forgive it, I mean no wrong.

There is only one thing that God does not like and that is sin, to find out the nature of sin it is best to google as I cant type for toffee and its a long and complex topic, though I expect a cleverer sort of chap or lady will be along soon that can cut it down to a few words.

That said God does not like sin, does not want to be near it, does not want to see it, would rather turn away for thousands of years until you have rid yourself of sin and not be near you.

You need to save yourself from sin in or to be near to God, now that may not seem like such a big deal to you but that is the crux of what you are to be saved from.

Nobody fully gets it, some get it more than others, but we will all be on the same page in the end.

Hope that helps and if it did not we shall have to wait for a better man/woman to come along.

[Amos]

What I want to know is, what is one allegedly "saved" FROM?

Is it "sin"? which if it is ,as the concept of sin is purely of biblical making, all salvation or "being saved" does, is claim to save you from something, itself created, or perhaps better said, an assumed "solution" to a problem of its own making.

In that case, those who don't believe the stuff in the bible, need no "salvation" because they don't "buy" the concept in the first place.

Sin is transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4). Salvation is from the penalty for breaking God's laws (Matthew 25:46, Revelation 21:8).

Why have you bothered to ask the question, since you don't believe any of this stuff anyway?

[catalyst]

Hi Amos,

As you quoted from the bible, all that showed is what I was stating. The comments relating to sin are biblical invents.

Also I ask the questions as this thread is not in "holy huddle", but rather open to debate in theology, doctrine and dogma. As such, I don't have to be part of the mutual admiration society I assume resides in its(holy huddle) folds.

The site IS called Debating Christianity and Religion for a reason, Amos. I am just holding up my end of the bargain.

So, that being the case, do you from your end IN debate have anything you consider a rebuttle to add?

What I want to know is, what is one allegedly "saved" FROM?

Is it "sin"? which if it is ,as the concept of sin is purely of biblical making, all salvation or "being saved" does, is claim to save you from something, itself created, or perhaps better said, an assumed "solution" to a problem of its own making.

In that case, those who don't believe the stuff in the bible, need no "salvation" because they don't "buy" the concept in the first place.

Sin is transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4). Salvation is from the penalty for breaking God's laws (Matthew 25:46, Revelation 21:8).

Why have you bothered to ask the question, since you don't believe any of this stuff anyway?