Was I a true Christian?

[OnceConvinced]

I was brought up in a Christian home, having been taught Christianity and its virtues from birth. I believed it by default. My parents were genuine Christians, believing it was their job to teach me the ways of the lord. They lived the Christian life. One of the things I have always respected them for was that they way they were at Church was no different to the way they were at home. I saw them as good Christian role models and I believe that is part of the reason why I followed in their footsteps.

I officially became born again at the age of 7. I always tried hard to emulate Jesus, following his teachings, taking his advice. At the age of 16 I went into ministry for the first time, as a leader at kids camps. My church pastor recommended me and I was being called “Uncle Richard” by kids only 6 years younger than me. This was definitely not a pride thing. I felt privileged to be able to do something for God. I always welcomed opportunities to do things for God.

My life as a Christian, was simple. I believed Jesus to be the son of God. I had absolute faith that Jesus was who he said he was. I strived to be like him. I prayed regularly, read my bible and studied. I believed the bible to be the infallible word of God. I regularly put my life right with him, asking for forgiveness when I felt I needed to. I attended church most Sundays, and often evenings. I attended cell groups. I helped people when I could who needed it.

When I left home, I continued to follow Christ, eager to be involved in ministry, eager to worship and praise him. I was put in leadership roles, trusted and respected. But please don’t think I am trying to blow my own trumpet. I am just telling you this because I want you to see that there were many people who believed me to be a true Christian. Even non-Christians did not question my integrity. – apart from one when I was about 19 who criticized me for swearing occasionally, telling a few crude jokes and for once wearing a shirt with dragons on it.

I made no secrets of the fact I was a Christian. I loved to talk about the lord. I always attempted to set an example.

I was never a fan of religion. I never approved of churches like the catholic church which focused on a lot of religious ritual. I chose to go to churches where religion was generally looked down upon. I believed I had a “relationship with God”.

I have always strived to better myself. To be more like Christ.

Of course a couple of years ago, I left the faith (that’s another story)

There are many Christians I have come across on-line, including some here, who although they know little (or nothing at all) of my background, insist I was never a true Christian – or insinuate it. Some are quite judgemental about it. Some try to be polite about it. I know I shouldn’t let it bother me, But I served the lord genuinely for over 30 years. I know I did what was expect of me as a Christian. I put my heart and soul into it. I wasn’t perfect by any means, but no Christian is.

So my questions:

Based on what I’ve told you here…

Was I a true Christian? If not, why not? Where do you think I went wrong?'

BTW, I'm happy to elaborate on any issues if you wish to ask questions.

[InTheFlesh]

"It could be that it's God's will for me to be an ex-Christian for a while so that I can be a witness to other ex-Christians. But it would certainly take some divine intervention on God's part to bring me back. And even if I did, I could no longer see the bible as the infallible word of God."


It also takes a divine intervention to obtain God!
Did you ever witness it?
Did he forsake you?
The baptizing by water is just a symbol of the true baptism...

[OnceConvinced]

"It could be that it's God's will for me to be an ex-Christian for a while so that I can be a witness to other ex-Christians. But it would certainly take some divine intervention on God's part to bring me back. And even if I did, I could no longer see the bible as the infallible word of God."


It also takes a divine intervention to obtain God! Did you ever witness it?

Exactly what do you believe divine intervention to be? If you're suggesting that God came down out of the sky and said "OnceConvinced, I am real. Repent before me", then no. If you're suggesting that it was divine intervention because God sent someone to convert me, then yes. Perhaps it was divine intervention that had me born into a Christian home?

How does one know whether divine intervention is involved in any conversion? One can only presume. How can it be proven that it was divine intervention?

The sort of "divine intervention" I'm thinking about is going to have to be a darn sight more convincing that the "divine intervention" that brought me to God in the first place. A lot lot more. I'm an adult now, so I'm not just going to believe everything that someone tells me. Those gullible days are long gone for me.

Did he forsake you?

Perhaps. He forsook his own son on the cross, so why not me? All I know is that God seemed to be working in my life regularly up until about 10 - 15 years ago. I've seen nothing of him since then. But yet it wasn't until about five years ago that I began to first question the bible regarding this. For all intents and purposes he had departed from out of my life. Could I have been wrong? Perhaps, but his lack of action in my life was only a small part of why I lost my faith.

The baptizing by water is just a symbol of the true baptism...

Being born again is also symbolic. What's your point? If you're talking about baptism of the holy spirit, I believed I had been.

[catalyst]

"It could be that it's God's will for me to be an ex-Christian for a while so that I can be a witness to other ex-Christians. But it would certainly take some divine intervention on God's part to bring me back. And even if I did, I could no longer see the bible as the infallible word of God."


It also takes a divine intervention to obtain God!
Did you ever witness it?
Did he forsake you?
The baptizing by water is just a symbol of the true baptism...

In the flesh,

I really want to address your points too.

1. I believed at the time I did, however I wanted to believe it, which lead my thinking to assume I NEEDED it.

2. For me, I realised there was nothing or "no one"(as in god) there TO "foresake" me.

3. For me, it was more than water immersion. I, as a fundy, did pretty much all "on the list" to be a disciple of bible christ, including handling snakes..etc..ironically though, I came to realise, the majority OF snakes I had to handle weren't reptiles, but others in the church.

There are less snakes out in the bush than there are within the confines of buildings of worship.

Real snakes, aren't such slippery little suckers!

[justifyothers]

So, you LIKE the god depicted in the compelation "book", whether in OT or NT form? The one who was either committing mass genocide (noah-flood - OT guy), or the one cursing cities with wrath worse than that of Sodom and Gomorrah, just because they didn't care for "his" teachings (bible jesus)?

I see the bible as ancient writings depicting different perspectives of God through the limited eyes of men. IMO, God may be very different than most of us suspect.

I think tragedies and wars were attributed to God by men. Not ordered by a cruel God.

But the wars, rapes, slavery..et al, over bible god and in "his" name were going on well before any book of assorted writings surfaced. Wars were allegedly fought "in his name" on oral tradition alone.

Sad, isn't it? More so that this behavior is alive and well today.

Do I think I may have found God without the bible? Unsure, but possibly. I do not use the bible or religion as evidence for God.

But it is the only reference point you have. Obviously you could have "found" your god by for example watching Benny Hinn, but when push comes to shove, the only way to know of ANYTHING relating to capital G "god", if someone had told you, or rather taught you to believe it. Otherwise, why is your belief in capital G god, and not one of the many others up for offer?

Whatever God means to me is simply the way I recognize Him. Others may recognize Him differently, slightly or radically. It is my own personal belief that God is actually a God of love, not hate and war and murder.

The bible is most certainly not the only reference point I have. It is simply the way the concept of God was introduced to me. Yet, I looked beyond that - within. There I find God, who is real to me. I understand fully that many do not believe or understand this. I simply cannot deny what is a reality in my life. It would be rather like trying to not breathe. It's there for me - I can't help it.

but rather I see life and love as evidence of Him

because the bible "says so".

No. Because I acknoweldge God in my life, constantly - all the time - with every thought and breath - it's just part of who I am.

I am not BTW having a go at you at all. I am just very curious as to your comments.

[malachi4]

Did you know if you had a revelation of something you will never be able to change
or go back from it
When Peter got the revelation of who Jesus really was nothing and no one could turn him away from that
But just a few days later he denied Jesus
We all fall but that not the important part how we get up is the important part
Its not how we start the race but its how we end it
thats the difference between a
make believer and a unbeliever

[tlong]

If you had truly experienced the forgiving grace of God, you would not have left it.

Romans 8:28-43
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies; who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.
Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Just as it is written,
[center]"FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG;
WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED."[/center]
But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 10:28
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Ah. I have some contradictory scriptures here, which refutes your POV. (Fancy that, contradictory scriptures in the bible!) These say that it is possible for a Christian to leave the faith:

"Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called 'Today', lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." Hebrews 3:12-13

"Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? ..." Hebrews 2:1-3

"Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. Therefore, let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall." I Corinthians 10:11-12

"But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified." I Corinthians 9:27

"You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by the law; you have fallen from grace." Galatians 5:4

2Pe 2:20-21 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

Those are not contradictory scriptures. The Once Saved Always Saved Doctrine is a false doctrine. The quote from Romans is not saying we cannot fall from grace, it is saying we cannot be taken away from Christ. It does not say we cannot chose to follow a different master. It is as Paul says , we must finish the race as he tells us that he did.

[OnceConvinced]

Those are not contradictory scriptures. The Once Saved Always Saved Doctrine is a false doctrine. The quote from Romans is not saying we cannot fall from grace, it is saying we cannot be taken away from Christ. It does not say we cannot chose to follow a different master. It is as Paul says , we must finish the race as he tells us that he did.

I happen to agree with you on this ocassion that there is no contradiction here for the same reason as you. However I have learnt over the years that there are always ways to justify any contradiction. No doubt there will be Christians here (and there has been) who will have plenty of scriptures to back up "the once saved always saved" doctrine. There are scriptures to back up almost any doctrine you want. People will of course insist their belief is right. It's a no win situation for someone seeking the truth.

[OnceConvinced]

I see a 4th vote has now been placed for "no". I'd really like to know why it is I was not a true Christian. Where did I go wrong? Come on "no" voters, state your case. Don't be cowardly. I'm giving you permission to judge me. This is an important issue here. There may (and I know there will) be plenty of others like me who have done what is necessary but have left or will leave the faith. Christians have a duty to make sure these people recieve the truth about what it takes to become a true Christian. Don't let them be decieved!

If I was not a true Christian, where did I go wrong? Why would God let me go for so long without even sending one true Christian to set me straight?

Perhaps in reality there is no such thing as a true Christian and anyone who thinks they are, are simply kidding themselves? By maintaining your silence you are giving me even more evidence to believe that Christianity is false and no more special than any other religion full of genuine believers.

[OnceConvinced]

Summary so far:

Ok, I’ve gone through and summarized comments made by people who have posted their views on this thread.

I got three obvious “yes� votes from theists.

Micatala, Jester and Simple.

I don’t know anything about Simple as he has only made the one post so far, but I respect the opinions of Jester and Micatala. They have proven themselves to be good Christian people here on this site and seem to exhibit the fruits of the holy spirit. That to me, gives their votes a lot of weight.

One "No"

So far only one obvious “no� and that is from a non-theist member, McCulloch.

He used the argument of predestination, which Drs has also talked about. This would suggest that I had to be chosen from the beginning of time. The big problem I have with this doctrine is that there is no obvious way to know whether one is a true Christian or not. One can only presume. Anyone who claims to be “chosen� may be deluding themselves. Perhaps this was the case with me? If it is, then I see a cruel God who allowed someone who loved him and followed him to believe they were chosen when he wasn’t. For this argument to be the case, I would expect that a loving and just God would have sent true Christians across my path warning me that I was not one of the chosen, and not saved. However I never once had that and in fact the opposite was true, I had many many acknowledgements that I was a "true Christian", shown mainly by the trust and respect that was apportioned to me by leaders and fellow church members. God seemed to be using me in many ways, me a fallible human being who failed him so often.

The only person who ever suggested I might be a false Christian was a non-Christian who criticized me once for wearing a shirt with dragons on it. But he was only being an ass. He liked to hassle me.

Uncertain/I think so:
Drs, 2bitsmedia, Justifyothers. (although they may have voted otherwise)

Drs talked about predestination. 2bits said he wasn’t able to judge. Justifyothers questioned the possibility that my Christianity was a religious thing. 2bits has also questioned that in the past.

Apart from the possibility of predestination (which I reject) and religiousness (which I don't believe I was), nobody has really been able to point out what I didn’t do right. Apart from those possibilities, nobody has been able to pinpoint anything that would have made me a false Christian. So unless the other “no� voters can step forward and justify their responses, I can only determine that I was a “true Christian�, whether Christianity is real or not.

[tlong]

I see a 4th vote has now been placed for "no". I'd really like to know why it is I was not a true Christian. Where did I go wrong? Come on "no" voters, state your case. Don't be cowardly. I'm giving you permission to judge me. This is an important issue here. There may (and I know there will) be plenty of others like me who have done what is necessary but have left or will leave the faith. Christians have a duty to make sure these people recieve the truth about what it takes to become a true Christian. Don't let them be decieved!

If I was not a true Christian, where did I go wrong? Why would God let me go for so long without even sending one true Christian to set me straight?

Perhaps in reality there is no such thing as a true Christian and anyone who thinks they are, are simply kidding themselves? By maintaining your silence you are giving me even more evidence to believe that Christianity is false and no more special than any other religion full of genuine believers.

I voted no due to a lack of information. Did you hear the word of God? Heb 11:6; Rom. 10:17; Jno. 6:44-45; Rev. 2:7. Did you believe? Heb. 11:6; Mk. 16:16; Jno. 8:24; Acts 16:31. Did you repent? Lu. 13:3; Acts 2:38; 17:30. Did you confess that Jesus is the son of God? Mt. 10:32-33; 16:16; Acts 8:37-38; Rom. 10:10. Were you Baptized in water? Mk. 16:15-16; Acts 2:38; 10:48; 22:16; 1 Pet. 3:21.

If the answers to these questions are yes, then you were a christian. In that case, the place where you messed up is the fact you did not live faithful. 2 Pet. 1:4-11; 1 Cor. 10:12; 9:27; 2 Pet. 2:20-22. You are either a christian or not a christian. The term christian means like Christ. They were first called christians in Antioch. The term true christian is not used in the Bible.