How can you be sure you are filled with the Holy Spirit?

[OnceConvinced]

Some Christians claim it is impossible to be an ex-Christian, because if you truly had the Holy Spirit in you, you could never reject it. Of course those Christians would be ignoring the numerous scriptures in the bible that support the fact it is possible.

Some Christians claim that as soon as you are "born again" you are filled with the HS. Thus as soon as that happens you have it.

Others believe you must be baptised in the HS, which is a process I went through a few times.

I truly believed I was filled with the HS. I spoke in tongues and even believed I had spiritual gifts. I even conducted spiritual warfare against demons, even experiencing a demon manifest itself in another person as I prayed for that person (Ok, I can tell you now I no longer believe there was really a demon in that person - but that's another discussion).

So, how can one be assured they have the HS in them?

[Lorens]

Dear Friend, good day to you from Croatia ... we are actually quite parted... viewed geographically

One of your problems could be, as is the case with many Christians, that you are having a wrong idea about our Lord, Redeemer and Heavenly Father Jesus Christ...

Could be that you are thinking about Him, as many do, as of another Person, and in your prayers you are praying not to Him but to the invisible Father, Who is again ANOTHER PERSON!!

As received from Jesus Christ by Bertha Dudde,
Revelation nr. 7816, February 4, 1961

The right concept of God….

And it will be revealed to you through My spirit that there is only one God and that this God manifested Himself in Jesus Christ, because He is a Spirit. It was not possible for Me to become visible to My created beings as a limited Being, but in Jesus Christ I became a ‘visible’ God for all My living creations, and therefore you cannot speak of Jesus Christ and the Father, for I Am one with Him, so when you speak of Jesus Christ you are speaking of Me, your God and Creator, your Father of eternity…. For the infant Jesus sheltered My spirit within Himself, and after His birth I was already remarkably active in Him in order to show the people in His neighbourhood that My spirit dwelt within the infant. The man Jesus exhaled his last breath on the cross…. Jesus body, however, was spiritualised and He rose from the dead…. For all His substances had merged with Me, My spirit had permeated body and soul and nothing human remained in Him…. What arose from the dead on the third day was I Myself, the Father-Spirit of eternity, the God Whom the beings desired to behold and Who had now manifested Himself in the outward appearance of Jesus Christ….

Jesus Christ is ‘God’, for I Am a Spirit and thus became visible to all My beings in the shape of Jesus Christ, and you cannot visualise Me in any other way than the divine Redeemer Jesus Christ…. And if you want to call upon Me, if you want to make contact with Me, you have to call upon Jesus Christ, you have to talk to Him, you have to acknowledge Him as your Father of eternity, and then you will also have the right concept of God…. which, however, can never be right if you pray separately to Me as ‘God’ and to Jesus Christ as ‘Son of God’…. The soul which dwelt in the man Jesus was My ‘Son’…. a supremely perfect being created by Me which remained with Me when the great apostasy of the spirits took place….

And this ‘Son of God’ made it possible for Me to embody Myself in a human shell…. so that the complete merger of the eternal Father-Spirit with Jesus Christ could take place, but then there no longer existed two separate beings but only one God, for the ‘divine Spirit’, My fundamental nature, utterly permeated the human shell and likewise spiritualised it…. Everything was ‘divine Spirit’ it was the Spirit which permeates all of infinity and merely manifested Itself in a form visible to people, so that they were able to develop a concept of Me, so that they were able to pray to a Being in order to unite with this Being…. For the original sin of the spirits’ apostasy consisted of their voluntary ‘separation’ from Me because they were unable to behold Me. And thus I provided for them the possibility of willingly joining with Me again by making Myself visible to them in Jesus Christ. But you must never separate ‘Jesus Christ’ and ‘Myself’…. For He and I are one; and whoever calls upon Him also calls upon Me…. whoever sees Him sees Me, Who is and was eternal and shall remain so in all eternity…. Amen


In that case = case that you don't have just mentioned 'right concept about God and Jesus Christ', neither you are a true Christian, neither you are in position to be born again, because this is posible only through Him = His Divine Glorified Human when rightly conceived, and finally, neither your prayers are ascending to heaven, as heavenly messenger declares in no uncertain, i.e. clear words:

‘Hereafter no one from among Christians enters heaven unless he believes in the Lord God the Savior (= Jesus Christ!), and approaches Him alone. We read in Isaiah:
Behold I create a new heaven and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered nor come into mind; and behold, I will create Jerusalem a rejoicing and her people a joy (Isa. 65:17, 18);
and in Revelation:
I saw a new heaven and a new earth: and I saw the holy Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven, made ready as a bride for her husband. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold I make all things new (Rev. 21:1, 2, 5)
and in other places:
That no others should enter heaven than those who were written in the Lamb's book of Life (Rev. 13:8; 17:8, 12; 20:12, 15; 21:27).
By the "heaven" here mentioned the heaven visible to our eyes is not meant, but the angelic heaven; by "Jerusalem" no city coming down out of the sky is meant, but a church that is to descend from the Lord out of the angelic heaven, and "the Lamb's book of Life" means not a book written in heaven, which is to be opened, but the Word, which is from the Lord and which treats of the Lord. In the preceding sections of this chapter it has been proved, authenticated, and established that Jehovah God, who is called the creator and the Father, descended and assumed a Human in order that He might be approached by man and be conjoined to man. For does anyone get near to a man by approaching his soul? Can that be done? It is the man himself who is approached, who is seen face to face, and who is talked with mouth to mouth. It is the same with God the Father and the Son; since God the Father is in the Son as a soul is in its body.
[2] That the Lord God the savior is he in whom men ought to believe is evident from the following passages in the Word:
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him may not perish, but may have eternal life (John 3:15, 16).
He that believeth in the Son is not judged; but he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God (John 3:18).
He that believeth in the son hath eternal life; but he that believeth not the son shall not see life, but the anger of God abideth on him (John 3:36).
The bread of God is He that cometh down out of heaven, and giveth life unto the world. He that cometh to Me shall not hunger; and he that believeth in Me shall never thirst (John 6:33, 35).
This is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who beholdeth the Son and believeth in Him may have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day (John 6:40).
They said to Jesus, What must we do that we may work the works of God? Jesus answered, This is the work of God, that ye believe in Him whom He hath sent (John 6:28, 29).
Verily, I say unto you, he that believeth in Me hath everlasting life (John 6:47).
Jesus cried saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto Me and drink. He that believeth in Me out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water (John 7:37, 38).
Unless ye believe that I am, ye shall die in your sins (John 8:24).
Jesus said, I am the resurrection and the life; he that believeth in Me, though he die, shall live and whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die (John 11:25, 26).
Jesus said, I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth in Me may not abide in darkness (John 12:46; 8:12).
While ye have the light, believe in the light, that ye may be sons of the light (John 12:36).
The Lord also said that the disciples should abide in Him, and He in them (John 14:20; 15:1-5; 17:23);
which is done by faith:
Paul testified both to the Jews and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21).
I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man cometh unto the Father but by Me (John 14:6).
[3] That whosoever believes in the son believes in the Father, since, as said above the Father is in him as the soul in the body, is evident from the following passages:
If ye had known Me ye would have known My Father also (John 8:19; 14:7).
He that seeth Me, seeth Him that sent Me (John 12:45).
He that receiveth Me, receiveth Him that sent Me (John 13:20).
This is because no one can see the Father and live (Exod. 33:20).
Therefore the Lord says:
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father He hath manifested him (John 1:18).
Not that any man hath seen the Father save He that is with the Father, He hath seen the Father (John 6:46).
Ye have neither heard the voice of the Father at any time, nor seen His form (John 5:37).
But those who know nothing about the Lord, like most of those in the two divisions of the globe called Asia and Africa, including those in the Indies, provided they believe in one God and live according to the precepts of their religion, are saved by their faith and life; for imputation has reference to those who know, not to those who do not know; as when the blind stumble it is not imputed to them; for the Lord says:
If ye were blind ye would not have sin; but now ye say that ye see therefore your sin remaineth (John 9:41).

To confirm this further I will relate what I know, because I have seen it and can therefore testify to it, namely, that the Lord is at this day forming a new angelic heaven, and that it is formed of those who believe in the Lord God the Savior, and who approach Him directly, and that all others are rejected. So hereafter, when anyone from Christendom goes into the spiritual world (as every man does at death) and does not believe in the Lord and approach Him alone, and is then unable to receive this faith, because he has lived wickedly or has confirmed himself in falsities, at his first approach toward heaven he is repelled, and turns his face away from heaven and towards the lower earth, whither he goes, and joins those who are there, who are meant, in Revelation, by "the dragon" and the "false prophet." Moreover, no man henceforth in Christian lands is listened to unless he believes in the Lord (= approaches God through Jesus Christ!!!); his prayers (= directed to invisible God) become in heaven like ill-scented odors, and like eructations from ulcerated lungs; and even if his appeal is thought to be like the fumes of incense, it ascends towards the angelic heaven only like the smoke of a conflagration which is blown back into his eyes by a downward gust of wind, or it is like the incense from a censer hidden under a monk's cloak. Such is the case hereafter with all piety that is directed to a divided trinity, not to a united trinity. To show that the Divine trinity is united in the Lord is the chief object of this work. To this I will add the following new information. Some months ago the twelve apostles were called together by the Lord, and were sent forth through the whole spiritual world, as they formerly were through the whole natural world, with the command to preach this gospel; and to each apostle was assigned a particular province; and this command they are executing with great zeal and industry. But on these subjects more will be said in the last chapter of this book, where the Consummation of the Age, the Lord's Coming and the New Church, are specially treated of.’
E.Swedenborg ‘True Christian Religion – 107, 108’

So, maybe if we start from the 'basics', from the 'corner stone of Christianity', because from my own experience, one person in 7 000 in the Christian Churches has the right idea about Jesus Christ, the Lord, in Whom is the Trinity.

Without this right idea no communication with God and heaven is possible, and in that case, it is easy to 'fell down' or 'lose your IMAGINED faith'!!

May His peace and joy abound in your heart

Lorens


ps. talking about 'Bible being enough' and further revelations of our Lord and Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ Jehovah, maybe it is best to view that in the following manner, namely, 'further revelations are intended to explain to us in more details what earlier was revealed in short and obscure terms, so to speak, do deepen and clear our knowledge about Divine Truth as revealed earlier!'

In support of this read John 16:25 where this beautiful revelation via Bertha Dudde fits perfectly.

Another case, The Bible you are mentioning is full of the promises that our Father will speak to His Children... consequently, it is an insult to His love if you are saying opposite = read booklet nr. 2, named 'God is still speaking today':

B.D. 8054
3.12.1961

Is the Bible completed.…

How misguided you are to assume that with the Scriptures, the Book of the Fathers, My Word has come to an end …. that I Myself have set a limit in so far as that I now do not communicate anymore, that I do not speak to people any longer.… Who gives you the authority to make such an assumption?.... Who will deny Me to speak time and again as Father to My children? Who gives you the right to make the assertion that the Bible is sufficient on its own, that you humans need no other Word?....

Those of you who reject every new revelation are still confined in the darkness of spirit.… And in this darkness you will not understand the Bible either, thus it is still a closed book for you because you do not understand the spiritual meaning of the letters, or you would also find the references concerning My continuous revelations in this book and the working of My spirit would be comprehensible to you.… But as long as your spirit is still unenlightened you cannot grasp the meaning of the Word which I Myself spoke to My disciples while I lived on earth.… You humans would be unfortunate if you had to content yourselves with a book which can no longer be checked by you yourselves for changes in its contents.… if you were not repeatedly offered the pure truth from above as a guiding principle as to whether you yourselves are living in truth.…

Those of you who only accept the Book of the Fathers have not yet penetrated ‘the Word’ yourselves, you have only read it intellectually but not allowed the spirit within you to speak, who instructs you and explains to you the spiritual meaning of the Word…. You adhere to the letter and do not understand its meaning.... And when I Myself want to guide you into truth you deny My activity, and you suspect My servants of associating with My adversary.… you question My will and the power to speak to those who devoutly offer their service to Me and who are thus also able to hear My voice within themselves….

And you stubbornly hold on to your opinion that My Word is concluded with the Scriptures, which you acknowledge as the only book through which I have revealed Myself.… And that is your loss, because by rejecting My Word from above you prove yourselves to be mere dead Christians, because living Christianity is an ‘activity of love’, and this would result in your spiritual enlightenment and thus also in an understanding for My exceptional help in times of spiritual hardship.…

Then you would also comprehend the Bible words, the promises, which I Myself gave to you and which point out that I will reveal Myself to those who keep My commandments.… So how do you intend to interpret My promises, if you deny every ‘New Revelation’?.... Do you want to call Me a liar when I announce My ‘comforter’ to you who will ‘guide you into every truth .…’ How do you understand these Words which have to come to pass, because every promise I gave to people during My life on earth fulfils itself.… And why do you not want to believe? Because your spirit is arrogant, because you lack inner life, spiritual awakening, and thus you believe that you are able to determine and limit Me and My activity as it suits you.… But you are mistaken, even if you believe that you have acquired knowledge through your studies which entitles you to reject My Word from above.… You are spiritually arrogant and therefore you can never receive a revelation from Me yourselves, because I only bestow My grace to the humble, and you are lacking this humility.… And thus you still walk in darkness, and you will not be able to penetrate it since you avoid the light which could give you insight if you wanted to step into its radiance.…

My love for My living beings will never end, and hence I will never fail to speak to you humans wherever the conditions to do so are met. And My Word will always sound in those who are of good will, to whom the Father can speak like to His children and who have a living faith in Me. And to them I will give evidence of Myself, and My Own will recognise My voice because I can be present with them.… I can reveal Myself to them as I have promised.… Amen

ps. 2 - talking about 'comparision' between 're-birth' and human 'birth', that would be rightful and correct comparision and in this manner is portrayed in the Word of God also; correspondence between these if full as heavenly messenger explains also:

It is known that the soul of man commences in the ovum of the mother, and is afterwards perfected in her womb, and is there encompassed with a tender body, and this of such a nature that through it the soul may be able to act in a manner suited to the world into which it is born. The case is the same when man is born again, that is, when he is being regenerated. The new soul which he then receives is the end of good, which commences in the rational, at first as in an ovum there, and afterwards is there perfected as in a womb; the tender body with which this soul is encompassed is the natural and the good therein, which becomes such as to act obediently in accordance with the ends of the soul; the truths therein are like the fibers in the body, for truths are formed from good (n. 3470). Hence it is evident that an image of the reformation of man is presented in his formation in the womb; and if you will believe it, it is also the celestial good and spiritual truth which are from the Lord that form him and then impart the power to receive each of them successively, and this in quality and quantity precisely as like a man he looks to the ends of heaven, and not like a brute animal to the ends of the world.

E.Swedenborg 'Arcana Coelestia - 3570:4' (see also chapters 4931, 9258 at www.theheavenlydoctrines.org)

p.s. 3 - and finally, talking about the prayer in your case, you could be also truly helped if you take your time and on already mentioned web page www.wordofgod.de you read booklet nr. 22 which is named 'A right kind of prayer'!

[OnceConvinced]

Heard it all before Lorens. Believed it. Although admittedly I lost interest about half way through reading that big sermon so skimmed throught the second half. I didn't see anything there that clashes with anything I believed as a Christian. Seems like pretty standard Christian fare to me. No new revelations, no things I didn't know, no things I didn't believe.

So no, I don't believe I had a wrong idea about Christ. I'm not sure what gave you that impression.

[Lorens]

Good day my 'I know everything' friend ...

In that case .... if your faith in our Lord and Father is truly correct one ... could be that you were (and still are) passing through the purification process called 'dark night of the soul'... but you were and are simply uninformed about it ... and, while our Lord was testing your faith in Him and your level of abandonment, you conceived a wrong idea that you were 'falling from your state of grace'...

... sometimes this 'period of Lord's absence' is very long in some believers ... and it is of great importance to know about it, or to have somebody to advice you in the mean time ...

Great Christian author(ity) in this matter would be Madame Guyon (her 'dark night' was 7 years long!!) ... and this is what she wrote about it in her Autobiography - 1/21:

'About this time I fell into a state of total privation which lasted nearly seven years. I seemed to myself cast down like Nebuchadnezzar, to live among beasts; a deplorable state, yet of the greatest advantage to me, by the use which divine wisdom made of it. This state of emptiness, darkness, and impotency, went far beyond any trials I had ever yet met. I have since experienced, that the prayer of the heart when it appears most dry and barren, nevertheless is not ineffectual nor offered in vain. God gives what is best for us, though not what we most relish or wish for. Were people but convinced of this truth, they would be far from complaining all their lives. By causing us death He would procure us life; for all our happiness, spiritual, temporal and eternal, consists in resigning ourselves to God, leaving it to Him to do in us and with us as He pleases, and with so much the more submission; as things please us less. By this pure dependence on His Spirit, everything is given us admirably. Our very weaknesses, in His hand, prove a source of humiliation. If the soul were faithful to leave itself in the hand of God, sustaining all His operations whether gratifying or mortifying, suffering itself to be conducted, from moment to moment, by His hand, and annihilated by the strokes of His Providence, without complaining, or desiring anything but what it has; it would soon arrive at the experience of the eternal truth, though it might not at once know the ways and methods by which God conducted it there.'

... maybe this is the 'key' to your 'problem'...

In His love

Lorens

[OnceConvinced]

Good day my 'I know everything' friend ...

I don't claim to know everything. However I have a lot of experience when it comes to Christianity (30+years), so there's not a lot I haven't heard before.

As for the rest of your post, I see nothing to argue about there. I myself have even considered the possibility that God wants me to go through a period of unbelief to perhaps be a witness for others who have gone through the same, however as the weeks and the months role by I become more and more convinced that's wishful thinking.

The truth is, the unreliability of the bible has become truly apparent to me and if I did ever become a Christian again, I could no longer see it as the infallible word of God, and not even "God breathed". I could only see it as superstitious man's view on the world (and God) from 1000s of years ago. For me to return to the faith it will require pretty much a miracle. God is going to have to do something very remarkable himself, because I am finding that very few Christians are able to come up with any good answers to the questions I am asking. Not many are coming up with anything I myself didn't use or hadn't already rejected as a Christian.

[McCulloch]

As received from Jesus Christ by Bertha Dudde,
Revelation nr. 7816, February 4, 1961

In accordance with Rule 5, I am challenging this assertion. How do you know that Bertha Dudde received any revelations from Jesus Christ? Either present evidence or stop making the claim.

[InTheFlesh]

Some Christians claim it is impossible to be an ex-Christian, because if you truly had the Holy Spirit in you, you could never reject it. Of course those Christians would be ignoring the numerous scriptures in the bible that support the fact it is possible.

Some Christians claim that as soon as you are "born again" you are filled with the HS. Thus as soon as that happens you have it.

Others believe you must be baptised in the HS, which is a process I went through a few times.

I truly believed I was filled with the HS. I spoke in tongues and even believed I had spiritual gifts. I even conducted spiritual warfare against demons, even experiencing a demon manifest itself in another person as I prayed for that person (Ok, I can tell you now I no longer believe there was really a demon in that person - but that's another discussion).

So, how can one be assured they have the HS in them?

Rom.8
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

When you get baptized, your sins are forgiven.
You were baptized a few times?
If you had the Holy Spirit
where did it go?
Did he forsake you?
Or did you get wiser and now think he doesn't exist?

If you don't believe in God,
why does it bother you whether you ever had the Spirit?
If you don't believe in the Spirit of Truth
why do you believe you had it at one time?

[OnceConvinced]

Some Christians claim it is impossible to be an ex-Christian, because if you truly had the Holy Spirit in you, you could never reject it. Of course those Christians would be ignoring the numerous scriptures in the bible that support the fact it is possible.

Some Christians claim that as soon as you are "born again" you are filled with the HS. Thus as soon as that happens you have it.

Others believe you must be baptised in the HS, which is a process I went through a few times.

I truly believed I was filled with the HS. I spoke in tongues and even believed I had spiritual gifts. I even conducted spiritual warfare against demons, even experiencing a demon manifest itself in another person as I prayed for that person (Ok, I can tell you now I no longer believe there was really a demon in that person - but that's another discussion).

So, how can one be assured they have the HS in them?

Rom.8
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

How does the spirit bear witness according to you? When I was a Christian I made no secret of it and I even witnessed to people. I involved myself in ministries which reached a lot of people.

There are many people who claim to have been baptised, born again and all that sort of thing that appear not to show the fruits of the HS. If that verse was true, then that means I did have the HS, but according to you I didn't. So who do I believe? You or the bible? That's why I ask the question. Bible assurances are just not enough. There must be a way to know. The only way I know of is by what fruits the person shows. However many who claim to have the HS do not show these fruits, while many non-Christians do. It seems people can show them whether they have the HS or not. So, that doesn't work. What other ways are there to tell?

I put it to you and anyone else here that there is no way of knowing. Anyone claiming to have the HS cannot really know for sure.

When you get baptized, your sins are forgiven.
You were baptized a few times?

Only the once. Once is all that's needed. How many times do you think you need to be baptised?

If you had the Holy Spirit
where did it go?

That's what I'd like to know (if indeed it has gone). Perhaps it is still in me? Or perhaps it doesn't exist and those who have it are simply delusional?

If you don't believe in God,
why does it bother you whether you ever had the Spirit?
If you don't believe in the Spirit of Truth
why do you believe you had it at one time?

Because I was a genuine, Christ loving, bible believing Christian who was born again and baptised and spent over 30 years deligently seeking and serving Christ.

You don't think it should bother me after spending 30 years genuinely following God, and someone tells me "Huh! You never really knew God at all!" Don't you think that's just a little bit insulting? Don't you think it is judgemental and mean-spirited? How would you like it if someone said something like that to you?

I see two possibilities:

God glasses on: I repented, I was baptised, I experienced the HS in my life. Now people (like yourself) claim I was never a true Christian and that I never had the HS in my life. So what was it I had if not the HS? What must I do to have the HS that I didn't do? How does any Christian know they have the HS?

God glasses off: I never had the HS, because the HS doesn't exist. I was deluded. Therefore, if someone like myself who did everything the bible expected of him, who walked the walk rather than just talked the talk, who sincerely believed but yet was mistaken - deluded, then how do we know it's not the same for people like you? What makes you so sure you aren't deluded too?

[OnceConvinced]

From the other thread:

Since when does having the holy ghost mean you are going to testify of it? Do you have scripture to back up your claim that if you have the HS you will testify of it?

John.15
[26] But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

If Jesus sends you the Ghost
meaning if he manifests himself inside you
and you are filled with the Spirit of God,
Wouldn't it be logical that the person
filled with the Spirit of Christ
believe in God?

I did believe in God. I believed for over 30 years. I was born again, I was baptised, I testified of it. I spoke to work colleagues about it. In fact I involved myself in ministries which reached a lot of people. So was I a deluded person or was I indeed a Christian?

Here are scriptures to show that it is possible to have been filled with the HS and to fall from the faith:

Galations Ch 1

Hebrews 3:12-13
"Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called 'Today', lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin."

Hebrews 2:1-3
"Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? ..."

I Corinthians 10:11-12
Therefore, let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall."

I Corinthians 9:27
"But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified."

Galatians 5:4
"You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by the law; you have fallen from grace."

2 Pe 2:20-21
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

Also the Story of the Prodical son.
............................
I can provide other scriptures too.

The scripture you have there simply just tells me that I MUST have had the HS within me as a Christian. So who do I believe. The bible that says I had the HS or you who claims I never did?

[Heavenlymedia]

It is best to never believe you have the Holy Spirit in you. It is best not to believe anything that is not apparent in the world. Others will know you have the Holy Spirit by your fruit. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are irrevocable. The question is; are you using them to serve yourself or God.

Be very careful with the things of the spirit as not all spirit are friendly. The spirit world is filled with all sorts of things, powers and principalities. It is best not to think to much of yourself. Lead a quit life and mind your own business is what the apostle says. If God needs you He will send angels, visions or dreams or lead you to scripture in answer to your affective prayer. You do not have because you do not ask. You do not receive because you ask with wrong motive.

Guard your heart which is your nature and also above all else is deceitful. Knowledge of the word without understanding is a dangerous thing. Gain understanding!!!!!

[ravenssong]

Some Christians claim it is impossible to be an ex-Christian, because if you truly had the Holy Spirit in you, you could never reject it. Of course those Christians would be ignoring the numerous scriptures in the bible that support the fact it is possible.

Some Christians claim that as soon as you are "born again" you are filled with the HS. Thus as soon as that happens you have it.

Others believe you must be baptised in the HS, which is a process I went through a few times.

I truly believed I was filled with the HS. I spoke in tongues and even believed I had spiritual gifts. I even conducted spiritual warfare against demons, even experiencing a demon manifest itself in another person as I prayed for that person (Ok, I can tell you now I no longer believe there was really a demon in that person - but that's another discussion).

So, how can one be assured they have the HS in them?

I was a devout christian for about 15 years, and believed passionatly. To be told that I never fully "got it" is insulting. What I gained when I was baptized in the spirit so many years ago was a passion for the spiritual, a desire for the truth and willingness to believe. The fruits of the spirit, tongues, intercession, healing, prophecy, inner peace, etc. appear when you nurture the spiritual things in your live. My holy spirit is as real now as it was 15 years ago, I still have a passion for the spiritual and desire for the truth, my willingness to believe is as intact as it always was, it just not as easily misled, as far as the "fruits of the spirit", I can honestly say I have a lot more love, joy and peace than I ever did as a christian.