The Trinity Who came first???

[muhammad rasullah]

Many discussion have been done about the trinity and the fundamental concept of who God is and how we should understand him to be. The christians say God is three in one Father, Son , and holy spirit. Over the years many have struggled including christians themselves with the concept of the trinity to the point that they have concluded that its a mystery of God. The basic struggle of this concept comes when we ask the question that if these three are one in unity being equal then which one came first? Was it the father? Was it Jesus? Or was it the holy spirit? To christians this may seem as a illogical question but do not laugh because to many the idea of three distinctly separate entities being one always existing from the beginning is very strange and hard to grasp. It is clearly stated in the gospels that jesus was dependent upon the father. Jesus prayed, Jesus did not come to do his will but his fathers and so on. So the topic to be discussed is who came first in the trinity? Please use evidence to support your claim!

P.S. I am not suggesting that someone or something brought God into being I am posing the question to simply Who was there in the beginning first? Who is recognized as the eternal?

[Skyler]

Many discussion have been done about the trinity and the fundamental concept of who God is and how we should understand him to be. The christians say God is three in one Father, Son , and holy spirit. Over the years many have struggled including christians themselves with the concept of the trinity to the point that they have concluded that its a mystery of God. The basic struggle of this concept comes when we ask the question that if these three are one in unity being equal then which one came first? Was it the father? Was it Jesus? Or was it the holy spirit? To christians this may seem as a illogical question but do not laugh because to many the idea of three distinctly separate entities being one always existing from the beginning is very strange and hard to grasp. It is clearly stated in the gospels that jesus was dependent upon the father. Jesus prayed, Jesus did not come to do his will but his fathers and so on. So the topic to be discussed is who came first in the trinity? Please use evidence to support your claim!

Does the Muslim concept of God include eternality?

[muhammad rasullah]

Many discussion have been done about the trinity and the fundamental concept of who God is and how we should understand him to be. The christians say God is three in one Father, Son , and holy spirit. Over the years many have struggled including christians themselves with the concept of the trinity to the point that they have concluded that its a mystery of God. The basic struggle of this concept comes when we ask the question that if these three are one in unity being equal then which one came first? Was it the father? Was it Jesus? Or was it the holy spirit? To christians this may seem as a illogical question but do not laugh because to many the idea of three distinctly separate entities being one always existing from the beginning is very strange and hard to grasp. It is clearly stated in the gospels that jesus was dependent upon the father. Jesus prayed, Jesus did not come to do his will but his fathers and so on. So the topic to be discussed is who came first in the trinity? Please use evidence to support your claim!

Does the Muslim concept of God include eternality?

If by eternality you mean without beginning or end yes. But when I pose the question I do not pose it in a way to suggest that someone or something brought God into being. I mean who was the eternal first? Which one of the trinity is recognized as the eternal? Without twisting and turning and explaining into so many words. Chapter 112 of the Quran says verse 2 Allah the eternal the absolute!

[earendil]

Many discussion have been done about the trinity and the fundamental concept of who God is and how we should understand him to be. The christians say God is three in one Father, Son , and holy spirit. Over the years many have struggled including christians themselves with the concept of the trinity to the point that they have concluded that its a mystery of God. The basic struggle of this concept comes when we ask the question that if these three are one in unity being equal then which one came first? Was it the father? Was it Jesus? Or was it the holy spirit? To christians this may seem as a illogical question but do not laugh because to many the idea of three distinctly separate entities being one always existing from the beginning is very strange and hard to grasp. It is clearly stated in the gospels that jesus was dependent upon the father. Jesus prayed, Jesus did not come to do his will but his fathers and so on. So the topic to be discussed is who came first in the trinity? Please use evidence to support your claim!

P.S. I am not suggesting that someone or something brought God into being I am posing the question to simply Who was there in the beginning first? Who is recognized as the eternal?

I consider myself a Christian, but the idea of the trinity is total nonsense and I don't know why so many church creeds except the idea.

When Jesus was on the cross and said "God, why have you forsaken me." Who was he talking to? Himself? When someone called him "good teacher" He said "no one is good except God". When he prayed at Gethsemane who did he pray to?

The idea that Jesus was God is absurd. How could the eternal and omnipresent consciousness of God fit into any mortal being.

Of course...in their insane desire for idolatry they made Jesus God.....and when the facts were not enough, they made up stuff to support their insanity (like virgin births...etc.)

I will tell you the simple answer. There are three things. There is God. There is the messiah, the historical messenger whose purpose was to give the good news to humanity about God's new covenant. Then there is the holy spirit, which is the ever-enduring instrument of god's mercy. Its function is to directly interact with whosoever desires to know the truth. It satisfies the prophecy: "I will take out your heart of stone and replace it with a heart of flesh...so that my law will be your natural desire....and I will lead you myself....not trusting in any human agent....after all...the hebrews had shown how untrustworthy such agents can be. That is why the curtain to the temple was torn in half.

[TMMaria]

The basic struggle of this concept comes when we ask the question that if these three are one in unity being equal then which one came first? Was it the father? Was it Jesus? Or was it the holy spirit?...

P.S. I am not suggesting that someone or something brought God into being I am posing the question to simply Who was there in the beginning first? Who is recognized as the eternal?

There are Three Divine Persons in One God, that is Oneness in the same being, same nature, same substances. However, three distinct persons in origin.

God the Father has not origin; He came from no one. The chief attributes that are His by His very nature are His unchangeability and eternity. He is unchangeable. Since He has the fullness of being, He could not change into anything higher or better, or acquire anything: "I, the Lord, do not change," He said through the prophet Malachi (3:6). We call Him eternal, not in the sense that there always was time, and in it He always was. No, since He is unchangeable there is no past or future for Him: all is one unchanging present. He is a pure spirit, that is, He has no matter at all, and no parts. We call Him Father, since He is the supreme source of everything, the one "from whom all Fatherhood in heaven and on earth takes its name" (Ephesians 3. 16). We call Him the Creator, since He has made all things , not out of some previously existing material, but simply out of nothing. He has infinite power. By just willing it, He can do all things. So in Genesis 1 He merely spoke and said, "Let there be light." And light came into existence. Really, He did not speak in our sense of the word; He merely willed it, and it came into being.

God the Son has His origin from the Father; He is begotten, not created. This Second Person of the Holy Trinity, without giving up His Divine nature, take on a dual nature when He assumed human nature. In order to become a member of the human race in the fullest sense, the Second Person of the Trinity became man by being born of a human woman, Mary. He was conceived by her without the help of a human father, but rather, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Thus, the God-man Jesus Christ had only God as His Father, and the Virgin Mary as His Mother.

The Holy Spirit comes or proceeds from both the Father and the Son. He is the Spirit of Love that comes or proceeds from both the Father and the Son. Even though everything the Three Persons do outside the Divine nature is done by all Three, yet it is suitable that we attribute some works specially to one or the other Person. So we speak of the Father especially as the power of creation, of the Son as the wisdom of the Father, of the Holy Spirit as goodness and sanctification.

[TMMaria]

The idea that Jesus was God is absurd. How could the eternal and omnipresent consciousness of God fit into any mortal being.

So why would you have a problem with a God who has infinite power, who is fullness in being, who can do all things ...having the ability to take on a second nautre, when the Second Divine Person assumed human nature? Things may be impossible to human beings...even just to conceive the idea of God having dual natures, but nothing is impossible with God.

So, it's not absurd to consider that only Jesus, being the Divine Person, had power to calm the raging storms, to bring back someone to life from the dead, to cure the blind since birth....all are deeds showing His power over all nature laws of our world.

[Greatest I Am]

Just a few glitches I can think of.

How could Jesus be part of the trinity at the beginning when Mary had yet to be born?

Was the trinity a twonity for 9 months when Mary was pregnant?

How does Jesus feel about being, not the son of the father but the son of the holy spirit?

If Jesus is the son of God and He is part of God, does that mean He helped give birth to Himself?

If so, is that incest?

If God, a different species than man, impregnates woman, a lower species, does that mean that we can follow Gods example and have humans impregnate some lower animal? Pigs perhaps.
If God cross breeds, should man?

If Jesus is God and God cannot die, then was His -death- a joke or a sacrifice?

Too many questions for most Christians to even attempt an answer.

Regards
DL

[litewave]

Just a few glitches I can think of.

How could Jesus be part of the trinity at the beginning when Mary had yet to be born?

If I understand correctly, Jesus of Nazareth is an incarnation of the Son of the Father, with the involvement of the Holy Spirit. The Father-Son-Holy Spirit Trinity existed before that incarnation.

[Greatest I Am]

Just a few glitches I can think of.

How could Jesus be part of the trinity at the beginning when Mary had yet to be born?

If I understand correctly, Jesus of Nazareth is an incarnation of the Son of the Father, with the involvement of the Holy Spirit. The Father-Son-Holy Spirit Trinity existed before that incarnation.

If Jesus already was before Mary was born, then can we really say that she gave birth to the son of God?

The God of scripture has already shown that He does not need a woman to produce a human body. Why bother with bestiality at all.

Especially when that woman was another man's. I have to wonder how Joseph felt being cuckolded by another.

Regards
DL

[Zzyzx]

.

The idea that Jesus was God is absurd. How could the eternal and omnipresent consciousness of God fit into any mortal being.

So why would you have a problem with a God who has infinite power, who is fullness in being, who can do all things ...having the ability to take on a second nautre, when the Second Divine Person assumed human nature? Things may be impossible to human beings...even just to conceive the idea of God having dual natures, but nothing is impossible with God.

I agree with TMMaria (for once) – an omnipotent "god" could be capable of assuming human identity.

However, I do not agree that any of the thousands of proposed "gods" have been shown to be omnipotent. That claim is made in various god stories and tales, but there is no evidence to substantiate those claims.

So, it's not absurd to consider that only Jesus, being the Divine Person, had power to calm the raging storms, to bring back someone to life from the dead, to cure the blind since birth....all are deeds showing His power over all nature laws of our world.

IF Jesus was divine, such "miracles" would be possible. There are, however, two bits of information lacking"

1) Verification of the claim of divinity in sources other than religious promotional literature.

2) Verification that "miracles" actually occurred literally in the real world (rather than in myth or legend or unsupported bible stories).

Those who wish to believe in "gods" and "miracles" do so based upon tales (oral or written) that they have been told by "priests" or "prophets" or other religious promoters. Many seem to have difficulty accepting that others have valid reasons for refusing to believe in their favorite "gods".