Judas: Chosen, or Traitor?

[RockerunderGod]

The Gospels tell us blankly that Judas was a traitor to the Christ, who openly allowed Judas to "betray" him and allowed the disciples to deny him. But if one looks at Jesus' mission, the question is raised: could Jesus' mission, to die, be sacrificed (being the Lamb) for all of mankind, have been fulfilled if Judas had not handed him over?

Judas was the money handler and the negotiator of the Christ and the apostles, so would he not be fit to hand Christ over? Would Christ have not chosen him, knowing the mission He was about to fulfill? Also, doesn't the claim that Jesus was betrayed denounce the fact that Jesus could not be and cannot be undermined or defeated? Ultimately the question is this: Did Yeshua the Christ, in fact, CHOOSE Judas Iscariot to hand Him over so He could fulfill the mission?

Here's something to remember: the gospels were written by the apostles, who were Men and thus imperfect. From their point of view, perhaps, Judas betrayed Jesus. But then again, the Gospels are divinely inspired. So that raises another question: Could the Imperfection of the apostles have been leaked into their writings? Could the Gospels be slightly biased against some figures in the Bible?

NOTE: I am a Christian. I am not answering any of these questions because I already know the answers, and what you guess I believe is most likely wrong, because I have a Christian rock upon which I build. Metaphorically, that means that my beliefs are based off of Christianity, TRUE Christianity, but have differentiated aspects.

[Goat]

You see, the 'Christian' prophecies work by yanking lines out of the Jewish scripture , out of context, or written to, or even mistranslated to mean 'it's about Jesus'. If you read it in context, with a proper translation, it does mean what Christians say it means.

Prove that Christians use "Jewish" scripture.

Give an example of them using prophesies out of context.

Give an example of mistranslated prophesies.

How do you decide what proper translation is?

You see, unless you are a biblical scholar, this debate is useless to the topic. And I'm repeating myself like I didn't want to do... so I may opt out of this topic altogether. It's becoming stagnant.

I can sum that up in just two sentences.

Isaiah 7:14.. the term Almah does not mean virgin, and when you read it in context, it is talking about Isaiah's wife and son.

The Christian translation is wrong... pure and simple. That is because Matthew was using the Septuagints for his translation, and the term 'parthenogenesis' sometimes meant virgin.

[daedalus 2.0]

You see, the 'Christian' prophecies work by yanking lines out of the Jewish scripture , out of context, or written to, or even mistranslated to mean 'it's about Jesus'. If you read it in context, with a proper translation, it does mean what Christians say it means.

Prove that Christians use "Jewish" scripture.

Give an example of them using prophesies out of context.

Give an example of mistranslated prophesies.

How do you decide what proper translation is?

You see, unless you are a biblical scholar, this debate is useless to the topic. And I'm repeating myself like I didn't want to do... so I may opt out of this topic altogether. It's becoming stagnant.

I can sum that up in just two sentences.

Isaiah 7:14.. the term Almah does not mean virgin, and when you read it in context, it is talking about Isaiah's wife and son.

The Christian translation is wrong... pure and simple. That is because Matthew was using the Septuagints for his translation, and the term 'parthenogenesis' sometimes meant virgin.

Andymc7, maybe you should read up a little on what Biblical Scholars are saying?

Most of the non-xians here have been through this a hundred times. I myself have read the apologetics, biblical scholars from all kinds of denominations and the scholars that have become atheist or agnostic after they studied the Bible.

There is a large consensus that the Bible does not say what modern churches have been saying for years.

You are being duped by the westernization of a myth, the adjustments made to the doctrine over time and the propaganda from your parents and clergy.

[Andymc7]

Most of the non-xians here have been through this a hundred times. I myself have read the apologetics, biblical scholars from all kinds of denominations and the scholars that have become atheist or agnostic after they studied the Bible.

There is a large consensus that the Bible does not say what modern churches have been saying for years.

You are being duped by the westernization of a myth, the adjustments made to the doctrine over time and the propaganda from your parents and clergy.

Hmm.. all I read here is claim after claim with nothing to back them up.