Jesus never said I am God Nor worship me!!

[muhammad rasullah]

There is knowhere in the bible where Jesus says that I am God or worship me? All christians who believe this are false in there beliefs. Show me please if this is your belief that jesus says I am God or worship me? What christian will defend their faith?

[Goat]

Since you have chosen not to esteem the new testament as holy scripture, here is another prophesy of Jesus in Isaiah:

7:14 - "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

What does Immanuel mean? Yep ,you got it, "God with us"

His name was Jesus, not Emmanuel. He may have been called Emmanuel after the fact, but his name was Jesus. Mary named him Jesus, not Emmanuel.

That alone disproves the OT>NT connection.

Not only that, but 'virgin' is a mistranslation, and if you read Isaiah 7:14 IN CONTEXT (imagine that, reading something in context), you will see that Isaiah is talking about his own wife and son. It's amazing how many Christian 'prophecies' were pulled out of random single lines in the Jewish scriptures, but if you read those lines in context, it doesn't mean what the Christian writers say it means.

[McCulloch]

So you think even if a perfect teacher has an underachiever, say someone handicapped with a little ADD who requires more repetition and time to learn, would learn perfectly and timely along with gifted students? Good grief!

Did I say that? I claim that a perfect teacher is one who maximizes the learning potential of each of his or her students. I think that it can be shown that Jesus did not achieve that standard.

How about an example of a parable where the deeper meaning is hidden from those of us with dull minds?

Explain without looking it up. Matthew 9:14-17 "Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not? [15] And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast. [16] No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse. [17] Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved."

This particular parable has become almost a cliché in western culture. I don't think that it would have taken divine assistance to discern the meaning of this.

[daedalus 2.0]

So you think even if a perfect teacher has an underachiever, say someone handicapped with a little ADD who requires more repetition and time to learn, would learn perfectly and timely along with gifted students? Good grief!

Nobody said "within the same time frame". Again you are using examples from your own imperfect experience of teachers and students.

A perfect teacher would be able to teach the lesson - in whatever time frame needed: say, for the big exam. In the case of Jesus, that would mean he would teach EVERYONE before they died so they could "graduate" to Heaven.

A perfect teacher would also rid the classroom of negative influences (loud noise, distractions, smoke, etc.: i.e.: SATAN).

[Word_Swordsman]

Yes, i know that you believe that God made some predestined to understand Him, and others predestined to Hell.

I disagree. That's not what the Bible says. It says that ALL are able to find the grace of God.

I see you are still fond of distortion and false attributions. All Jews were predestined to not understand the new covenant, but that veil was removed after Jesus' resurrection in time for any Jews willing to believe on Christ to avoid hell.

Please list at least one reference to your claim all are able to find God's grace. I find this: John 1:16-17 "And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. [17] For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

One can only find the grace of God by being in Christ. No Jew knows that grace unless Jesus is his Messiah.

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour: who will have all men to be saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." 1 Timothy 2:3,4.

Or is Timothy lying that God will not have his Will done?

I see you still struggle with "free will" v. God's will. It always was and will be His will for all men to be saved, but He allows men to walk by their own will concerning that. If you say because God's will means His will shall be carried out, then there is no need for any man to believe anything or do anything God requires. All would obey, or all would disobey and still be saved? You miss the main point anyway, Jesus as mediator. If a person ignores Jesus then he pases on the mediation.

You also ignore the lessons of Ezek. 36:26-27 & Phil. 2:13.

Ezekiel 36:24-29 "For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. [25] Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. [26] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. [27] And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. [28] And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. [29] I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you."

Yep, that began in 1948 and is developing nicely now. Israel will be fully restored over the original lands David ruled over. That is an exciting prophecy being fulfilled in Israel right now.

Not to mention, God holds the hearts of ALL MEN (and women) in His hands and can turn them as he wants.

So you think God can be pleased with some worshiping Baal or following Satan to their deaths?

Your god is weak if he cannot teach to all. You are saying that your god has created people who are destined for Hell because He made them unable to learn. That is not God, it is Satan; a monster.

It was Satan who blinded the Jews. The Gentiles were already outside of understanding, being pagans. 2 Cor. 4:4 "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

The "god of this world" is Satan whom men chose above God.

John 12:37-43 "But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: [38] That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? [39] Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, [40] he hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. [41] These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him. [42] Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: [43] For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God."

The reference in there was at Isaiah 6:9-10 "And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. [10] Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed."

Men preferred a lie instead of the truth, as in the Garden with Adam & Eve.

Satan was and still is a fallen angel deluding men to believe lies.

By using imperfect teachers from your own experience you are highlighting your fallacy. Jesus is not just any Above Average Teacher: He is God and perfect and knows what lies in Men's hearts. You reject this basic fact.

You chose Satan's line, to the distortions of my testimony. Then you come back thinking you serve the Lord God being "all things to all men".

[Word_Swordsman]

Since you have chosen not to esteem the new testament as holy scripture, here is another prophesy of Jesus in Isaiah:

7:14 - "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

What does Immanuel mean? Yep ,you got it, "God with us"

His name was Jesus, not Emmanuel. He may have been called Emmanuel after the fact, but his name was Jesus. Mary named him Jesus, not Emmanuel.

That alone disproves the OT>NT connection.

Oh, me. The ANGEL called the name JESUS, Greek "Iesous". The Hebrew equivalent was "Joshua" or "Emmanuel/Immanuel"/Yehowshuwa.
There happen to be multiple names of God in the OT. Any of those names Jesus would have responded to as a little child or adult.

[Word_Swordsman]

So you think even if a perfect teacher has an underachiever, say someone handicapped with a little ADD who requires more repetition and time to learn, would learn perfectly and timely along with gifted students? Good grief!

Nobody said "within the same time frame". Again you are using examples from your own imperfect experience of teachers and students.

The opposers here appear here to be saying Jesus failed to teach His disciples the truth He meant for them to receive while Jesus was among them. Those men got it very straight after the resurrection of Jesus. All of Jesus' teachings took root, the learning process on schedule, and the succeeding higher classes proceeded by the Holy Spirit teaching them what Jesus promised He would, "the rest of the story". It was fit to leave those men with a lack of understanding lest they interrupt the plan of God to inaugurate the new Covenant. Peter posed a real threat to the crucifixion of Christ, as did Simon the Zealot.

A perfect teacher would be able to teach the lesson - in whatever time frame needed: say, for the big exam. In the case of Jesus, that would mean he would teach EVERYONE before they died so they could "graduate" to Heaven.

A perfect teacher would also rid the classroom of negative influences (loud noise, distractions, smoke, etc.: i.e.: SATAN).

Jesus accomplished His mission, both teaching what His disciples should learn, and those disciples passing the final exam in Acts. He was the perfect teacher under the most extreme of circumstances, while pulling off the greatest feat of mankind to the saving of many souls.

Did Jesus remove the veil Satan put upon the Jews from antiquity? Yes, through His flesh per Hebrews 10:19-22 "Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, [20] By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; [21] And having an high priest over the house of God; [22] Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water."

[Word_Swordsman]

So you think even if a perfect teacher has an underachiever, say someone handicapped with a little ADD who requires more repetition and time to learn, would learn perfectly and timely along with gifted students? Good grief!

Did I say that? I claim that a perfect teacher is one who maximizes the learning potential of each of his or her students. I think that it can be shown that Jesus did not achieve that standard.

Except for Judas Iscariot the traitor, Jesus' students passed the final exam in Acts. and in their writings.

How about an example of a parable where the deeper meaning is hidden from those of us with dull minds?

Explain without looking it up. Matthew 9:14-17 "Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not? [15] And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast. [16] No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse. [17] Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved."

This particular parable has become almost a cliché in western culture. I don't think that it would have taken divine assistance to discern the meaning of this.

I see you failed to explain the parable, indicating you need the Holy Spirit's help. Challenge met and I won.

[daedalus 2.0]

I see you failed to explain the parable, indicating you need the Holy Spirit's help. Challenge met and I won.

I have no doubt you will always declare yourself the winner of your own religion. How can you lose when you set yourself up as your own god, judge and jury?

Congratualtions!

[Word_Swordsman]

I see you failed to explain the parable, indicating you need the Holy Spirit's help. Challenge met and I won.

I have no doubt you will always declare yourself the winner of your own religion. How can you lose when you set yourself up as your own god, judge and jury?

Congratualtions!

The point is "McCulloch" obviously failed to answer his challenge with the meaning of the parable derived from pure reasoning, not having the Holy Spirit to guide you. If you folks had access to Him He would show you where the answer is in the Bible.

I am winner of the latest "McCulloch challenge! It is proved here. I know he is not on a trip, but active throughout his challenge period. I note he didn't try to guess at the answer, but as usual, a fellow skeptic comes alongside him resorting to personal attack! You have no answer either? I'm not complaining about the personal thing, as I think leaving this discussion intact makes a huge argument against the efficacy of skeptic "reasoning".

Once again enemies of God who claim to "disprove" the Bible and religion in general with reason, logic, facts failed. They say they have dismissed something they can't figure out well enough to accomplish their high-mined claims. Well, some things remain hidden from those determined to oppose God, so the day will never come when any atheist can say they have defeated Him. This speaks of knowledge forever denied them.

[Goat]

I see you failed to explain the parable, indicating you need the Holy Spirit's help Challenge met and I won.

]

Is that so? Perhaps you just misunderstood things. Just because someone disagrees with your interpretation doesn't mean they are wrong, and that doesn't mean you have the 'Holy Spirit's help', and they do not. This sounds like the sin of Pride to me.

I have no doubt you will always declare yourself the winner of your own religion. How can you lose when you set yourself up as your own god, judge and jury?

Congratualtions!

This sounds like a pot calling a kettle black.

The point is "McCulloch" obviously failed to answer his challenge with the meaning of the parable derived from pure reasoning, not having the Holy Spirit to guide you. If you folks had access to Him He would show you where the answer is in the Bible.




I am winner of the latest "McCulloch challenge! It is proved here. I know he is not on a trip, but active throughout his challenge period. I note he didn't try to guess at the answer, but as usual, a fellow skeptic comes alongside him resorting to personal attack! You have no answer either? I'm not complaining about the personal thing, as I think leaving this discussion intact makes a huge argument against the efficacy of skeptic "reasoning".

To quote you from above

I have no doubt you will always declare yourself the winner of your own religion. How can you lose when you set yourself up as your own god, judge and jury?

From my observations, you were not able to successfully answer any of McCullogh's challenges, except , perhaps in your own mind.

Once again enemies of God who claim to "disprove" the Bible and religion in general with reason, logic, facts failed. They say they have dismissed something they can't figure out well enough to accomplish their high-mined claims. Well, some things remain hidden from those determined to oppose God, so the day will never come when any atheist can say they have defeated Him. This speaks of knowledge forever denied them.

You fail to show that your bible, or your interpretation of the bible is the only way. You just repeat unsupported assertions, claims of heresy, and general ignorance of what you are rejecting. Your heresy's are noted and rejected.