Jesus never said I am God Nor worship me!!

[muhammad rasullah]

There is knowhere in the bible where Jesus says that I am God or worship me? All christians who believe this are false in there beliefs. Show me please if this is your belief that jesus says I am God or worship me? What christian will defend their faith?

[muhammad rasullah]

Isn't he just saying that some book says you should worship God, so Satan should worship god?

It's a pitiful method of instruction, but Jesus was far from being a perfect teacher...

"It is written"? Whoa! Well, then it must be true!

Jesus was a perfect teacher but his disciples according to the gospel were of little faith and knowledge.

[daedalus 2.0]

Isn't he just saying that some book says you should worship God, so Satan should worship god?

It's a pitiful method of instruction, but Jesus was far from being a perfect teacher...

"It is written"? Whoa! Well, then it must be true!

Jesus was a perfect teacher but his disciples according to the gospel were of little faith and knowledge.

Impossible. A perfect teacher teaches the lesson despite the students ability. That is, all students learn under a perfect teacher. (Likewise, a bad teacher would teach none of his students). Obviously not all students learned his lessons.

Jesus was not a perfect teacher, therefore, not perfect, therefore not God.

[Andymc7]

Isaiah 9:6 -"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Just one verse answers this question. And as you can see, it's in the Old Testament.

[Word_Swordsman]

The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."

"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied."

--Matthew 26:63-64

Of course, a son is not 'THe Father', and the term 'son of god' meant someone who was rightous, or specifically blessed by God, but not actually divine them self.

There was no doubt among the Jews what the Heb. Messiah (Greek Christ) meant. It meant deity. There was no crime declared against "righteousness" in any person among them. They themselves held each other "righteous", so if their charge was against being "good" then they indicted themselves. Being "blessed by God" wasn't a possible crime charged against Jesus, either. That was something promised all Jews who met the demands of God beginning in Genesis, continuing with Moses and his law covenant with God, and of course the prophets calling Israel back to God with the carrot of great blessing on individuals and the nation.

[Word_Swordsman]

Isaiah 9:6 -"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Just one verse answers this question. And as you can see, it's in the Old Testament.

Luke 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

Let me sweeten that with this. Luke 2:26 "And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ." Simeon was regarded as a devout man of Israel, allowed to minister in the temple. He was not chastened for his blessing on Jesus, nor was the prophetess Anna, a resident of the temple, who also confirmed the Christ in the baby Jesus, all that following the priest Zacharias in the temple speaking over John as the greatest prophet to introduce the Christ. There is no record of the Jews in those days disputing those ministries over Jesus. From those blessings onward it remained that evidences of those prophesies must be fulfilled in the periods spoken of, in the life of Jesus and of John the Baptist.

Jesus startled the Jews with a long list of different "I am" declarations that any well educated Jew would pick up on as being declarations of divinity, beginning with this in John 8:56-59 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. [57] Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? [58] Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. [59] Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."

That "I am" was the same used of God in the Tanach, such as in "I am that I am." spoken to Moses. That was why the men wanted to stone Jesus. That carried far more weight than saying "I am God" at that point in time. God didn't tell Moses to go saying someone spoke to him identifying himself as "I am God", but "I am."

[Word_Swordsman]

Impossible. A perfect teacher teaches the lesson despite the students ability. That is, all students learn under a perfect teacher. (Likewise, a bad teacher would teach none of his students). Obviously not all students learned his lessons.

Jesus was not a perfect teacher, therefore, not perfect, therefore not God.

Your reasoning is deeply flawed. Having a perfect teacher doesn't imply students would be prefect learners. In any classroom in America you could expect to find some "A" students as well as some "B", "C", "D" and "F" students regardless of perfection of teachers. If a teacher could open their heads and pour knowledge into their brains it still wouldn't be a guarantee of perfect learning. The student must not only learn but apply knowledge enough to demonstrate understanding. I "learned" something about E=M x C squared, but faint understanding came along many years later.

Matthew 13:13 "Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand."

Mark 4:11 "And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:"

Jesus taught in terms of stories by which dull minded hearers could grasp some lesson, the deep things hidden from them until filled with the Spirit. Any teacher that can bring hard to understand concepts down to a day to day living level is a perfect teacher. Even so, the dull of mind might capture the life lesson of the parable, but not be able to comprehend anything spiritual about it. Jesus spoke a parable by which the Pharisees knew He was speaking of them, but were unable to grasp the meat of the deeper truths of it.

The fault of learning is chiefly in the student's ability to learn. An imperfect teacher should be able to at least present knowledge while not able to explain it. I had a high school algebra teacher that merely forced us to memorize and follow the examples in the textbook. He was considered the poorest of teachers, but impossible to remove. In spite of his inability to communicate algebra, some of us made good grades while others failed.

[McCulloch]

Impossible. A perfect teacher teaches the lesson despite the students ability. That is, all students learn under a perfect teacher. (Likewise, a bad teacher would teach none of his students). Obviously not all students learned his lessons.

Jesus was not a perfect teacher, therefore, not perfect, therefore not God.

Your reasoning is deeply flawed. Having a perfect teacher doesn't imply students would be prefect learners. In any classroom in America you could expect to find some "A" students as well as some "B", "C", "D" and "F" students regardless of perfection of teachers. If a teacher could open their heads and pour knowledge into their brains it still wouldn't be a guarantee of perfect learning. The student must not only learn but apply knowledge enough to demonstrate understanding. I "learned" something about E=M x C squared, but faint understanding came along many years later.

I see your point but I would not agree that daedalus' reasoning is deeply flawed. If Jesus was a perfect teacher, then he must be able to teach his students to their maximum capacity. One cannot expect a teacher (even a perfect one) to teach students beyond what they are capable of learning. If there is any shortfall in our capacity to learn his message, it must lie in at the feet of the one who created us.

Matthew 13:13 "Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand."

A good teacher uses tools and methods in order to make the message clear to the students, not to hide meaning from them.

Jesus taught in terms of stories by which dull minded hearers could grasp some lesson, the deep things hidden from them until filled with the Spirit. Any teacher that can bring hard to understand concepts down to a day to day living level is a perfect teacher. Even so, the dull of mind might capture the life lesson of the parable, but not be able to comprehend anything spiritual about it. Jesus spoke a parable by which the Pharisees knew He was speaking of them, but were unable to grasp the meat of the deeper truths of it.

How about an example of a parable where the deeper meaning is hidden from those of us with dull minds?

The fault of learning is chiefly in the student's ability to learn.

I disagree. If this were true, then a whole lot of study and work by teachers and those preparing to become teachers is wasted. After all, the students who have the ability to learn will learn and those that don't will not. Balderdash!

An imperfect teacher should be able to at least present knowledge while not able to explain it. I had a high school algebra teacher that merely forced us to memorize and follow the examples in the textbook. He was considered the poorest of teachers, but impossible to remove. In spite of his inability to communicate algebra, some of us made good grades while others failed.

Perhaps because algebra is a reasonably well understood topic and there are reasonably well written algebra text books. Daedalus' claim about Jesus' imperfect teaching ability still stands. He is the imperfect teacher. Yes, some of his students apparently got it. But the majority did not.

[daedalus 2.0]

Jesus taught in terms of stories by which dull minded hearers could grasp some lesson, the deep things hidden from them until filled with the Spirit. Any teacher that can bring hard to understand concepts down to a day to day living level is a perfect teacher. Even so, the dull of mind might capture the life lesson of the parable, but not be able to comprehend anything spiritual about it. Jesus spoke a parable by which the Pharisees knew He was speaking of them, but were unable to grasp the meat of the deeper truths of it.

The fault of learning is chiefly in the student's ability to learn. An imperfect teacher should be able to at least present knowledge while not able to explain it. I had a high school algebra teacher that merely forced us to memorize and follow the examples in the textbook. He was considered the poorest of teachers, but impossible to remove. In spite of his inability to communicate algebra, some of us made good grades while others failed.

Yes, i know that you believe that God made some predestined to understand Him, and others predestined to Hell.

I disagree. That's not what the Bible says. It says that ALL are able to find the grace of God.

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour: who will have all men to be saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." 1 Timothy 2:3,4.

Or is Timothy lying that God will not have his Will done?

You also ignore the lessons of Ezek. 36:26-27 & Phil. 2:13.

Not to mention, God holds the hearts of ALL MEN (and women) in His hands and can turn them as he wants.

Your god is weak if he cannot teach to all. You are saying that your god has created people who are destined for Hell because He made them unable to learn. That is not God, it is Satan; a monster.

By using imperfect teachers from your own experience you are highlighting your fallacy. Jesus is not just any Above Average Teacher: He is God and perfect and knows what lies in Men's hearts. You reject this basic fact.

[OnceConvinced]

Your god is weak if he cannot teach to all. You are saying that your god has created people who are destined for Hell because He made them unable to learn. That is not God, it is Satan; a monster.

This is a huge point, a very valid one. God has made people with a better ability to learn than others. Those who lack the skills to learn are going to be at a severe disadvantage when it comes to reading and understanding the bible. Even if you try to bring in the argument that the Holy Spirit helps, you will find that only those with a better capacity for learning can get the answers from scripture themselves, while those who lack that ability must rely on what they are told by other Christians.

To really understand scripture, you need to be able to analyse, synthesis and evaluate what you read.
Bloom's Taxonomy

[daedalus 2.0]

I wonder, does WS believe that people with Down's Syndrome are unable to learn the "Lesson" or is the learning have nothing to do with intelligence and more with some insidious "microchip" implanted by God to elicit Faith?

What about Satan? It's not that Satan exersizes his Free Will, but that he is structurally unable to learn about God and God's redemption?