Can you escape from Heaven?

[daedalus 2.0]

In case it isn't to your liking, in case it was sold as a condo but is really a shack, or maybe you get bored?

Can you escape from Heaven? Once in, are you required to stay forever? No matter what?

[OnceConvinced]

OnceConvinced.

Many people think or at least say “all are saved.� and SAVED would imply heaven.

I personally have never met anyone who has claimed all are saved. In fact the opposite.

I am not sure how Eternal life could be as far as not getting tired of things which have been done over and over. Forgetting seems to be built into the system, We move, and we do not keep going back to the old house, New Memories seem to replace the old ones, and not used, The old ones fade into the background.

Might be true if we had our old human bodies, but according to the bible we will have far superior bodies. I shouldn't imagine we wouldn't forget things too easily in that case. But I guess it may be a possibility, especially if God doesn't want us to get bored.

They might get over the guilt, But it sure will not be nice to have that guilt even for a short time.

I can't imagine guys like Hitler having a good time in Heaven. I don't think they'd be very popular.

You say the Hell is no longer around. How then do you see the scripture below? Do you claim that this no longer applies to people today? That it is an event that has already occurred?

Matthew 13:40-42: "Just as the weeds are separated out and burned, so it will be at the end of the world. I, the Son of Man, will send my angels, and they will remove from my Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil, and they will throw them into the furnace and burn them. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

[daedalus 2.0]

OnceConvinced.

Many people think or at least say “all are saved.� and SAVED would imply heaven.

I personally have never met anyone who has claimed all are saved. In fact the opposite.

I am not sure how Eternal life could be as far as not getting tired of things which have been done over and over. Forgetting seems to be built into the system, We move, and we do not keep going back to the old house, New Memories seem to replace the old ones, and not used, The old ones fade into the background.

Might be true if we had our old human bodies, but according to the bible we will have far superior bodies. I shouldn't imagine we wouldn't forget things too easily in that case. But I guess it may be a possibility, especially if God doesn't want us to get bored.

They might get over the guilt, But it sure will not be nice to have that guilt even for a short time.

I can't imagine guys like Hitler having a good time in Heaven. I don't think they'd be very popular.

You say the Hell is no longer around. How then do you see the scripture below? Do you claim that this no longer applies to people today? That it is an event that has already occurred?

Matthew 13:40-42: "Just as the weeds are separated out and burned, so it will be at the end of the world. I, the Son of Man, will send my angels, and they will remove from my Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil, and they will throw them into the furnace and burn them. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

The Bible: the biggest embarassment to Christians.

[ken1burton]

OnceConvinced.

I run into a lot of people who believe or at least say all are saved, When I ask them in details about those who really killed a lot of people, Some rethink what all saved means.

The End of the World being the day of the Cross, The angels being the 144 with Judas seen as a wall, Adding the Cubit reaches Angel status, Top level of “Man Status� is Greater love has no man then this, That a man lay down His life for a friend. Many people exceed that love, Many lay down their lives in Service even to their enemies.

Revelation 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

Ezekiel said in that day every wall would fall to the Ground, as they are likened to a wall around Jesus in the Garden, When Jesus said “I am He.� they all went backwards and fell to the Ground.

The day as 4 6-hour periods, Old Heaven was Sunset to Midnight, Old Earth was midnight to sunrise, New earth is Sunrise to noon, New Heaven is Noon to sunset. Consider going from the Mount of Olives, to Mount Calvary that day. So it is the “Heavens for heights, and the Earth for depths� Starting on the Mount of Olives, Ending on Mount Calvary.

So the angels gather all things which offend, and God has laid upon Jesus the iniquity of us all. And He is who they came for.

Outer Darkness is Midnight to sunrise. The Disciples are weeping as they flee, and the 144 with Judas are gnashing their teeth. The Children of the Kingdom are also cast into outer darkness. Seen as the Stars of Heaven, So a third seen falling at a time, all of them in the full three pictures.

Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This is where Rachal weeping for the Children belongs, All prophecies for the day of the Cross.

Jeremiah 31:15 Thus saith the LORD; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not.
16 Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.

When Jesus said “No man cometh unto the Father, But by Me.� the Children of Israel are spiritually dead, or “ARE NOT�, So God is saying not to weep, they will come again. That is because part of the prophecies is God voids the Covenant Jesus made. So that all are saved by grace, and God concluded all in unbelief:

So all the things are done, then all made truth at once, So the Covenant was made, And the Covenant was voided:

Psalms 89:35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
38 But thou hast cast off and abhorred, thou hast been wroth with thine anointed.
39 Thou hast made void the covenant of thy servant: thou hast profaned his crown by casting it to the ground.

Because it all has to be done according to God’s law, Jesus is likened to God’s wife, or a woman in the Second picture, And a Husband could void a vow (Covanant) made by a wife when He heard it.

Isaiah 62:5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

Jesus takes sins, Some sins are gender related. So one of the three pictures has Jesus seen as a woman. The Bear in Daniel is the Lord, the three ribs in His Mouth is the day spoken of as 3 pictures, One of the Ribs is made as a woman. Hosea shows the four beasts are the Lord:

Hosea 13:7 Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them :
8 I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps , and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.

Daniel is seeing the 4 6-hour periods BACKWARDS. Or looking back at the day, 4-3-2-1. So the last is first, and the first is last, The Leopard is third in Daniel, Second in Hosea.

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

When the first 2 time periods seen as Old Heaven and Earth flee from His Face, seen as the Face of a man on the third beast with 6-wings, Then the Black Horse (all faces) the time of the Judgment becomes the Great WHITE throne of Judgment, The Fourth seal is the Pale Horse, Noon to sunset, Notice the Faces change with the Color:

Jeremiah 30:6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

This is the Body of Christ born the day of the Cross, the 144 with Judas being men travailing with Child, Multiplied by 1,000 or 144,000. Seen in Revelation Chapter 14 as Virgins, of fulfilling the Virgin Birth prophecy.

Noon to Sunset is the time of Jacob, Jesus wrestles with a man or with self preservation, He has to allow Himself to die, He does, Then Esau comes, Esau seen as Edom. Edom seen as a desolate wilderness or the time Jesus had to be dead, God hated Esau or the time Jesus had to be dead. Over Edom He cast out His shoe, or sin ended, we are on Holy Ground, off with the shoes.

Midnight to sunrise was the Time of Abraham, Outer Darkness was Abraham’s Horror of great darkness. Melchizedeck was part of the Abraham story, So after the order of Melchizedeck or after Sunrise, Jesus is a Priest forever.

The day of the Cross, Being the Birth of the Body of Christ had to be taken out of time, That made Everlasting past before the day, Everlasting future after the day, and the day is called “FOR EVER�. For ever and ever being the day of the Cross and everlasting future.

Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.
4 Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it.
5 Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it.
6 As for that night, let darkness seize upon it; let it not be joined unto the days of the year, let it not come into the number of the months.

Taking the day out of time, Broke the Everlasting covenant with the Levits, or ended the Priesthood, Destroy this Temple is the Priesthood, not the Building, so in three days or in three pictures, Another temple is raised:

Jeremiah 33:20 Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;
21 Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.

Covenant with David had to be broken as Jesus had to go into hell. The day made as three pictures, So the three days and three nights in hell is the same day seen three ways, He makes His BED in Hell:

Isaiah 28:20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

So AS JONAH, which is a similitude, Nineveh being a city of three days journey, Jonah enters one day’s journey, or one day seen three ways.

God’s word is like as a fire, The day as 7 days, or God’s word tried in the fire, seven times. The day as 7 time periods is as SILVER, the day as three pictures is as Gold, So the Streets are paved with Gold, or seen in the three pictures.

Isaiah 51:23 But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over.

First picture as a street for the Living, Second picture as a street to the dead, Third picture as a street to Heaven.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

This is all fulfilled the day of the Cross, 144 with Judas as a wall, Those in hell as a wall, Those who came out of hell or out of great tribulation seen as a wall in Heaven.

Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

The Priests likened to Stones (those cold to Jesus). So when Jesus said if the Disciples were to hold their peace (Entry into Jerusalem) the stones would cry out, the day of the cross they did hold their peace, and the Stones or priests cried out “Crucify Him!�

They are also the Stones cast down as the priesthood ends.

The Romans destroying the temple is not fulfilling any prophecy, For part of the “Destroy this Temple� was “And In three days I will raise another.� Which sure did not happen then.
But did happen the day of the Cross when the Priesthood ended, and Jesus became our Temple.

The prophets wrote as they thought the words were meant they heard. The day as 4 6-hour periods, 1=Lord God of our Father’s. Or Jesus made as Lord God by God the Father, 2=God of Abraham, 3=God of Isaac, 4=God of Jacob. “This by My Name FOR EVER.� Or for the day of the Cross.

Exodus 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

These are things from ANCIENT TIMES which were not yet done, or the stories of Abraham, and Jacob were similitudes for the day of the Cross which had not come when Isaiah wrote:

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Isaiah 63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

His name is FROM Everlasting, or as Everlasting past ends, and the day of the Cross begins, The Name applies.

God using keywords, 1=Wisdom, 2=Understanding (Together wisdom and understanding forms Counsel) 3=Knowledge.

Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.

Isaiah 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

The day as Light, then sealed as Darkness, So what Jesus shows us in Darkness, That we are to speak in the Light.

Lamb in Revelation has seven eyes, All as unclean till fulfilled, Day being shortened or they pluck out the eye, Till it is back to one day, or the Eye be single, Made as Darkness, so if the light of thy eye be darkness, How GREAT is that Darkness? Great is a keyword for something hidden that has to be searched out.

The second 6-hour period seen as the Second day, Seen as spiritually dead because He took sins, So having two eyes to be cast into hell. The Second physical day a future similitude for what was already fulfilled the day of the Cross, Time of Abraham, we are dead in Christ, or in the Bosom of Abraham. Rich man and Lazarus the first two days, five brothers the next 5 time periods.

Ken

[ken1burton]

Daedalus.

Not yet, The Church age will be ending as Israel draws most of mankind by showing the Scriptures the way they are meant to be seen, In Truth, then it will be an embarassment to Christians.

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Had they really Searched the Scriptures, and it is the Jewish Holy Scriptures that is being spoken of, They would have found Christianity was not speaking the Truth of what God foretold:

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The day of the Cross, Jesus making an end of sins, and bringing in everlasting righteousness is an absolute Truth foretold by God. And not preached or seen by Christianity.

Luke 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

And all things written by the Prophets were fulfilled the day of the Cross. Every prophecy ended the day of the Cross, Fulfilled and established as God’s Truth.

Ken

[daedalus 2.0]

Daedalus.

Not yet, The Church age will be ending as Israel draws most of mankind by showing the Scriptures the way they are meant to be seen, In Truth, then it will be an embarassment to Christians.

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Had they really Searched the Scriptures, and it is the Jewish Holy Scriptures that is being spoken of, They would have found Christianity was not speaking the Truth of what God foretold:

Daniel 9:24 Sevent weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The day of the Cross, Jesus making an end of sins, and bringing in everlasting righteousness is an absolute Truth foretold by God. And not preached or seen by Christianity.

Luke 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

And all things written by the Prophets were fulfilled the day of the Cross. Every prophecy ended the day of the Cross, Fulfilled and established as God’s Truth.

Ken

Um, OK, that's one perspective.

Or, it was a mythology that you seem to take very seriously. 40 days of this, 70 things of this, 7 days, 3 days, 666, 7th son of the 7th son, 9 witches, 6 cats, 8 grapes, 12 apostles, 13 grapes, 4 corners, etc.

All mythologies have this kind of thing and every culture has found them REAL - at least, for as long as the culture lasted (usually for thousands of years).

You are just part of that culture of religionists that count and add and fret away. Like the Mayans or Muslims.


If you had anything that was objective I might be fascinated, but right now I'm thinking of seeking a restraining order.

[ken1burton]

Daedalus.

Restraining order? Cute, I think there is an Ignore button on the bottom of other people’s post. Like a restraining order that is a click away.

Ken

[daedalus 2.0]

Daedalus.

Restraining order? Cute, I think there is an Ignore button on the bottom of other people’s post. Like a restraining order that is a click away.

Ken

Done. Thanks.