Can you escape from Heaven?

[daedalus 2.0]

In case it isn't to your liking, in case it was sold as a condo but is really a shack, or maybe you get bored?

Can you escape from Heaven? Once in, are you required to stay forever? No matter what?

[ken1burton]

I have often likened Heaven (hell also) to a Nursing Home, Those who have had very little in their lives, Now get fed every day, a place to sleep. Other people to talk to. But those who had a lot, The Homes, the Cars, the Family, They do not fare as well. It is more like hell to them as what they have had, is gone, and they pretty much have what they all have.

This is not the case with all the people, But in general, it is. So Heaven or hell can be seen as how one sees it themselves. Rich is not really rich, For a poor person in the United states compared with a rich one in Haiti might not be very different, But it is being richer then the ones around you. And in Heaven, I do not see there will be a difference. Only in the minds of those who now have to live with others as equal.


Homicidal_Cherry53.

That phrase always made me wonder a bit, How do people think it is “REIGN� in Hell. Or even that in Heaven you have to serve. There are no options, Hell was just a place of sleep till Jesus died for sins, then a waiting place till the third day.

Jesus could not leave hell, Even though God gave Him the power to take up His life again, For He had to be with them on the third day, If He left, He had no way to get back into hell to be there. You got the keys to death and hell by dying a sinner. As Jesus took Future sins to Golgotha, there is no more sins available, to get the keys to death and hell. So He had to wait with them till the third day so the Scriptures are fulfilled.

Zechariah 9:11 As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

Hosea 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Hell ceased to exist on the third day: He shutteth, and no man openeth.

Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

So they wait with Jesus, and are as Eagles:

This is an end time prophecy, and end times is the day of the Cross:

Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. His Dead Body is the Carcase, and they are as eagles gathered to that Carcase.


John 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

There is a Friend which sticketh closer then a Brother, Jesus is our Brother, and God is that FRIEND, And Omni-present Friend.

God laid all iniquity, Which included every murder ever committed upon Jesus, so all sin would be paid in full. And Jesus is “Every man’s brother.�

Genesis 9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

Mormons believe they end up as gods, with their own worlds to populate, If that is the type of Heaven you wish to follow, Follow on earth that is, I do not see those concepts as Scriptural. The Wives which have to be called out of the grave (Better be nice you your Mormon husband) get to be Eternally Pregnant. Just in case that might not seem too good.


Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

THAT “Kingdom of Heaven� is one of the Time periods for the day of the Cross, and it is the Disciples who are saying “Lord, Lord.�. It can be seen by looking at their response. The day is as three pictures, 1=Iniquity, 2=Mischief, 3=Falsehood, So the Disciples are part of the first picture are Workers of Iniquity. Also part of the Smite the Shepherd, and the Sheep will be scattered.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The fourth 6-hour period is the “Father’s Kingdom, or the “Kingdom of God.� where Jesus drinks of the Fruit of the vine with them, and that is the VINEgar:

Matthew 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Mark 14:25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

Luke 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

That is a Prophecy, all prophecies have to be fulfilled the day of the Cross, that is why Jesus when He first tasted the VINEgar would not drink it. But during the Fourth 6-hour period from noon to sunset, as the prophecies are being fulfilled, and the Kingdom of God has come, He has to drink of the Fruit of the Vine to fulfill the end of the prophecies, and Allow Himself to die.

John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

The day is divided into 3 pictures seen as 7 days, The first as 4 6-hour periods seen as Kingdoms or the four corners of the earth.

Nehemiah 9:22 Moreover thou gavest them kingdoms and nations, and didst divide them into corners: so they possessed the land of Sihon, and the land of the king of Heshbon, and the land of Og king of Bashan.

Psalms 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood.

The day is the Birth of the Body of Christ (Psalms 2:6/7). It is the Nation of Israel giving Birth (unto us a Child is Born), She is the Woman who loses her seed. And then MISCHIEF follows, So it is Eye for an eye, and Tooth for a tooth. Or the Picture is seen again, Doubled twice to be established by God. Lamb in Revelation has 7 eyes.

The day as a river divided into 4 heads or 4 6-hour periods, Let tears run down like a river, So God wipes away all the tears from their eyes, or the first picture ends, the second as a pit where in is no water, the people who were are waters, now seen as sands. “Behold I make all things new.� or being looked at again.


OnceConvinced.

End times is part of the Prophecies of the old Testament, Which means those things had to be fulfilled the day of the Cross. Same as a new Heaven and New earth being old Testament prophecies, Same as the Earth casting out the dead, and the Dead being raised with His dead body.

Luke 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Do you see where EVERY prophecy has to be fulfilled? Do you see where End times has to be? Do you see where the New World has to come in? Do you know of anyone or any denomination who says it all has to be fulfilled the day of the Cross, and lists it as such? This is what makes me think that this adds up, and Christianity has very bad math.

I do take it very Serious, and it does add up. And it was all fulfilled as Truth the day of the Cross which was made as 7 days. From Midnight to sunrise Jesus was Spiritually dead, and we dead in Christ as the Second physical day is a future similitude for what is fulfilled the day of the Cross. Third day would be Sunrise to noon, “With His stripes we are healed, or now Spiritually alive, as Resurrected from the dead, Third physical day is a future similitude for what was fulfilled the day of the Cross. As all was made Truth. All the Prophecies fulfilled is the Spirit of Truth.

I have studied the Bible very well, And relied on God to show what was there. As I was shown, I shared, And shared a lot, and God showed more, and I shared more. Pouring out the concepts as God kept adding to them.

God has a car dealership, I got a job there, He gave me 5 cars, He came back the next morning and found the five cars were gone (the concepts were moved to others), He gave me 10 cars, Came back the next morning and found them gone, He gave me fifty, Came back the next day and found them gone, He gave me the keys to the warehouse.

God wants what He gives us shared with others, That I have seen, That I do, Kind of greedy in a way, Because I want to see the other cars also. Get the picture?

Unbelievers (Some) do not have a lot of Scriptures they have to toss away, Before they start to build with what is being seen. Where as Believers have a house already built, So the concepts have to be shown where the house is built wrong, and this is often a battle. But the Battle has to be fought, and it is.

So I preach to both unbelievers and the Choir, To those who have some knowledge of Scripture, To those who have never read them. To those who’s job is to teach them, of almost every denomination, Every religion, in almost every country.

Not going to work? Let me put it this way. I see no reason to stop trying, and no reason to not trust God to direct me as I try. I have planted a lot of seeds. But that is my part of this body, Others are working also. Some even to question those seeds. Some to point to the seed and show others what the seed looks like.

It is the Body of Christ, with millions of different types of works all towards the same end, Bringing in a world that knows God that is desired. I see that as working. My little portion not adding anything? I think it might, But either way, I can glory in the whole body’s work.
And there is a lot of good being done, through Christ in this world.

There are a lot or problems in this world, But I know we are working on them. Jesus said the works which He did, we will do also, or are credited with. And all others in this body are credited with what I have done as well.

Logic and reason? I see Logic and Reason in what I am showing. If it did not add up, there would be no logic to it. If God’s word did not make this a better world, There would be no reason to share it.

OK, You know what the Bible says, Try what is means:

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

I assume you have entered the door at one time? OK, You seem now to be in the “OUT� stage. God has a stopwatch, How long is it going to take you to get back to the “IN�, and maybe another “OUT� to follow it.

Two major points, First is to come for the right reason, and that is a Love for God, Second is to understand that there is NOTHING that will ever separate you from that love, NOTHING. When you have those two points, You do not go out ever again, But you are made a pillar in the temple of God. Or a permanent fixture.


The seven messages to the Churches in Revelation are seven steps to God, they can be seen as steps by just looking at what the overcomers get, Sixth goes out no more:

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Seventh step you get to sit with Jesus in His throne, and that seventh step is earthly death.

You may have studied the Bible and do not need references, But this is an open forum, and the references might be needed by another who does not want just the verse number, etc. Remember, There are unbelievers and Choir here, and maybe Hal Linsey peeking. In between the unbelievers and the Choir are a lot of people who are seeking, Lot of believers who need clarification. Lots of unbelievers who need clarification.

All who died before Golgotha are with God in Heaven:

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Earth casting out the dead is all the dead, and this is prophecy shown by God, fulfilled to the Jot and tittle.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Making an end of sins, Bringing in everlasting righteousness a prophecy, has to be fulfilled, and was: Seal kept the Disciples and Jesus from seeing it fulfilled.

Isaiah 45:8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.

Prophecy, Fulfilled the day of the Cross, as they rose, they all rose righteous. Jesus seen as rendering to man, His righteousness, So all ours is as filthy rags, we all have His.

Job 33:22 Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers.

Jesus on the Cross,

Prophecy for the one called the Good Thief: As Jesus renders from the Cross, His righteousness unto mankind.

23 If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness:
24 Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom.
25 His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth:
26 He shall pray unto God, and he will be favourable unto him: and he shall see his face with joy: for he will render unto man his righteousness.

Prophecy for Judas repenting:
27 He looketh upon men, and if any say, I have sinned, and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not;
28 He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.

So by Grace are we saved, Through Faith, and that not of ourselves, Jesus gave us His when He rendered to man, His righteousness.

Sheep are the wicked seen in Jeremiah 12:1/3, so when Jesus renders to man, His righteousness, His works came upon us also. Goats seen as if not cast off in Zechariah 10:3/6.

So with all iniquity placed on Jesus, and His righteousness on man, all the dead having rose with Jesus, all are with God in Heaven.

Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Sin had to BELONG to Jesus, as if Jesus had done each sin, in order for the law to be fulfilled, He could not have died for our sins, But had to die for His OWN sins, which were the sins of the world, And it was Future sins taken to Golgotha.

Past and present sins then ended “With His stripes we are healed.� The only way Jesus could get the keys to death and hell was by dying a sinner, and the only sins available were Future sins. There by fulfilling Daniel 9:24's making an end of sins, and bringing in everlasting righteousness. Which also had a SEAL so the world did not see it.

So for the Overspreading of Abominations (All future sins on Christ), He shall make it desolate, or Jesus had to die, had to become a DEAD BODY, Mankind in that Dead Body, or Together with that Dead body shall they arise.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Jesus confirms the Covenant with mankind, the day of the Cross seen as a week in Isaiah 30:26 which is the day God heals, so it is the day of the cross..

Jesus ends the Daily Sacrifice, and what the Jewish priesthood was obligated to do. So with the dead body or Jesus being desolate, It is CONSUMED with Righteousness, Poured upon the BODY of Christ.

Psalms 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Body of Christ born the day of the Cross with mankind in the Body, Even the heathen in the Body.

Second picture for the day of the Cross has the people likened to the Sands. Second as a Desert, a pit where in is no water.

Isaiah 10:22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

The Remnant is those who rise in Christ, which is all who have died to that point, Now it is absent from the Body, present with the Lord.

John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

And all the Prophecies now being fulfilled is established by God as the Spirit of Truth.

The Book of Revelation shows the day of the Cross as three pictures, as 7 time periods, first as 4 6-hour periods as 4 beasts with 6-wings, second as 2 12-hour periods as 2 witnesses, third as 1 24-hour period as 24 Elders, John is in the Spirit on the Lord’s day of looking at the day of the Cross.

What else do you need covered?

Those who came out of hell are those who came out of great tribulation, Bottomless pit is a SEED, like a peach pit, it opens of sprouts. Sides of the pit seen, Smoke comes out (they rise as Smoke)

Isaiah 9:18 For wickedness burneth as the fire: it shall devour the briers and thorns, and shall kindle in the thickets of the forest, and they shall mount up like the lifting up of smoke.

Sins or wickedness consumed by God’s word like as a fire (Jeremiah 23:29) (end of sins)

Together with My dead body shall they arise, Seen as Locust coming out:

Nahum 3:15 There shall the fire devour thee; the sword shall cut thee off, it shall eat thee up like the cankerworm: make thyself many as the cankerworm, make thyself many as the locusts.

The Locust or those who came out of hell with Jesus have power to hurt those who have not the Seal of God in their forehead five months, So they have a little chat for those who do not wish to enter Heaven at death, Seen as those who speak to the enemy at the gate:

Revelation 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

They might want to die instead of hearing of God’s love and Mercy from those who got out of hell, But they have no such option. Five months they get to listen. Like it or not.

Those out of hell seen as Children, Open Sepulchre seen as a quiver, they are as arrows sent forth:

Jeremiah 5:15 Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the LORD: it is a mighty nation, it is an ancient nation, a nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say.
16 Their quiver is as an open sepulchre, they are all mighty men.

Psalms 127:4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.
5 Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

I am showing things after death on earth, From the Scriptures, and at death, we get Tunnel vision. Look to the Light on the other end, it can be seen.

I do not predict end times, I show it happened the day of the Cross, So let Him on the Housetop not come down, Jesus sits on the cross as a Sparrow on the Housetop, the Priests are asking Jesus to come down that they might see and believe.

Let Him in the field not return to take up His clothes, Sepulchre is in a garden or field, Jesus does not have any clothes with Him, That is to stay in the Sepulchre till the third day.

I did not come up with all this myself, God gave it all to me. Which would be impossible to have even one truth, Except it came from God. With hundreds of Truths, it had to be God showing it.

Hal and Jack are still well respected in Christian circles, and I guess the Circles are those Christians chasing their tails behind Hal and Jack.

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

They did not do a good search, or would have found what God said in Old Testament prophecy did not match what the Disciples or Paul were speaking. They would have also found that little “Sleep on, take your rest.� Jesus told them in the Garden was a prophecy to close their eyes from seeing what really happened, so the Disciples would not have seen the truth anyway:

Isaiah 29:10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

Don’t recognize me as a authority, Look at what God said He would do, There is the Authority. If this is what God said He would do, and it all adds up, Then that is what should be considered, The Message, not the messenger.

God did something about the girl kept as a sex slave, and the one in the crate, God punished the guilty person with death on a cross at Golgotha. Those were future sins then, and it was paid in full by Jesus, who in God’s eyes did those things. That is why God could not look at Jesus.

Soon we will all be in the hands of God, although we are now also. We are physically terminal from the moment of conception.

Jesus will condemn you to hell for not feeding the hungry? He did says something like that, didn’t He, How about what God said:

Isaiah 42:19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD'S servant?
20 Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.
21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Those GOATS, Seen as if not cast off:

Zechariah 10:3 Mine anger was kindled against the shepherds, and I punished the goats: for the LORD of hosts hath visited his flock the house of Judah, and hath made them as his goodly horse in the battle.
4 Out of him came forth the corner, out of him the nail, out of him the battle bow, out of him every oppressor together.
5 And they shall be as mighty men , which tread down their enemies in the mire of the streets in the battle: and they shall fight, because the LORD is with them, and the riders on horses shall be confounded.
6 And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the LORD their God, and will hear them.

A GOAT is the Sin offering, Jesus is the Passover Lamb, and the Sin offering. We all as SHEEP have gone astray, not as Goats:

Exodus 12:5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

Now where do you think God got His Passover Lamb, From the Sheep or from the GOATS?

Ever hear Jesus and a man named Barabbas?

Leviticus 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

Wilderness is the day of the Cross, and that is when the Scapegoat (Escapegoat) was set free.

Sheep seen as the Wicked in Jeremiah 12:

1 Righteous art thou, O LORD, when I plead with thee: yet let me talk with thee of thy judgments: Wherefore doth the way of the wicked prosper? wherefore are all they happy that deal very treacherously?
2 Thou hast planted them, yea, they have taken root: they grow, yea, they bring forth fruit: thou art near in their mouth, and far from their reins.
3 But thou, O LORD, knowest me: thou hast seen me, and tried mine heart toward thee: pull them out like sheep for the slaughter, and prepare them for the day of slaughter.

The Sheep fed the Hungry:

Proverbs 27:20 Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.

Hell is never full, Sounds like hell is HUNGRY. And the sheep went there before Christ died.

Sheep clothed the Naked:

Job 26:6 Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.

And the Sheep went there:

Here is the Cute part. Seems to be impossible, But Jesus taking them all out of hell would fit the similitude.

Job 22:6 For thou hast taken a pledge from thy brother for nought, and stripped the naked of their clothing.

Hard to strip a naked person, But hell which was naked was stripped of all those sheep.

Visited the Sick and in prison:

Isaiah 1:5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.

The Sheep VISITED HELL, After two days will He revive us, in the third day, He shall raise us up.

The Sheep enter the Kingdom prepared for them from the Foundation of the world:

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

OH? So they entered from the POINT of Jesus being slain at Golgotha.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Want to try hanging on a cross outside Jerusalem?

17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?

21 Knowest thou it , because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?

Sound like the Body of Christ born the day of the Cross? The Foundations of the earth, When the SHEEP get to enter the Kingdom.

QUOTE:
Jesus spent his life meeting physical needs (as well as spiritual needs) and huge numbers of people came to believe in him because of it.

How about you? Will you give Jesus another chance?

Ken

[OnceConvinced]

OnceConvinced.

End times is part of the Prophecies of the old Testament, Which means those things had to be fulfilled the day of the Cross. Same as a new Heaven and New earth being old Testament prophecies, Same as the Earth casting out the dead, and the Dead being raised with His dead body.

Luke 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Do you see where EVERY prophecy has to be fulfilled? Do you see where End times has to be? Do you see where the New World has to come in? Do you know of anyone or any denomination who says it all has to be fulfilled the day of the Cross, and lists it as such? This is what makes me think that this adds up, and Christianity has very bad math.

I do take it very Serious, and it does add up. And it was all fulfilled as Truth the day of the Cross which was made as 7 days. From Midnight to sunrise Jesus was Spiritually dead, and we dead in Christ as the Second physical day is a future similitude for what is fulfilled the day of the Cross. Third day would be Sunrise to noon, “With His stripes we are healed, or now Spiritually alive, as Resurrected from the dead, Third physical day is a future similitude for what was fulfilled the day of the Cross. As all was made Truth. All the Prophecies fulfilled is the Spirit of Truth.

Ken, you are do different to all those other Christians who have tried to take the bible and pinpoint future events. Absolutely no different. Like you they claim to get their information from the bible. But as of yet no one... NO ONE has ever predicted accurate dates. What makes you think you are any different to all those other bible scholars? What makes you think your calculations are any more accurate?

God wants what He gives us shared with others, That I have seen, That I do, Kind of greedy in a way, Because I want to see the other cars also. Get the picture?

I am quite aware how important it is for a Christian to preach the gospel. I have been there. I too wanted to see people come to Christ. But there are good methods and there are bad methods.

So I preach to both unbelievers and the Choir, To those who have some knowledge of Scripture, To those who have never read them. To those who’s job is to teach them, of almost every denomination, Every religion, in almost every country.

If you wish to preach go stand out on a road and do it. This is not the place. This is a place for debate. This website is called "Debating Christianity and Religion" not "Preaching Christianity and Relgion".

Not going to work? Let me put it this way. I see no reason to stop trying, and no reason to not trust God to direct me as I try. I have planted a lot of seeds. But that is my part of this body, Others are working also. Some even to question those seeds. Some to point to the seed and show others what the seed looks like.

Quoting a whole lot of scriptures that really have no relevence to what we are discussing is not going to be effective. It's simply bible bashing.

Logic and reason? I see Logic and Reason in what I am showing. If it did not add up, there would be no logic to it. If God’s word did not make this a better world, There would be no reason to share it.

Just quoting scriptures is not using logic and reason.

Two major points, First is to come for the right reason, and that is a Love for God, Second is to understand that there is NOTHING that will ever separate you from that love, NOTHING. When you have those two points, You do not go out ever again, But you are made a pillar in the temple of God. Or a permanent fixture.

I used to believe those things. A few years ago I said to a fellow Christian "I know that Jesus is for real. I've seen the reality in my life. I could never leave the faith".

All who died before Golgotha are with God in Heaven:

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

What else do you need covered?

That one scripture was enough.

I did not come up with all this myself, God gave it all to me. Which would be impossible to have even one truth, Except it came from God. With hundreds of Truths, it had to be God showing it.

Just like God showed stuff to all those other people who calculated things to happen at future dates. So I should believe that God told you these things when hundreds before you have been completely and utterly wrong? EVERYBODY who has predicted special biblical events to happen in on particular dates have been WRONG. And many of these people have had far more convincing arguments than what you have. I have been around long enough to take such claims with a grain of salt.

They did not do a good search, or would have found what God said in Old Testament prophecy did not match what the Disciples or Paul were speaking.

Yep. There's always a lot of excuses when people are proven wrong about their predictions. No doubt when 2029 comes you'll have a mountain of excuses why you were wrong and will come up with a whole lot of new dates, just like all those before you have. (At least until you give up on trying to predict future events)

Don’t recognize me as a authority,

Don't worry. I would never take you as an authority, just as I don't take anybody who claims to know dates of future biblical events as authority. They lose all integrity as far as I'm concerned.

Look at what God said He would do, There is the Authority. If this is what God said He would do, and it all adds up, Then that is what should be considered, The Message, not the messenger.

Like you, I could go to the bible and try to predict future events, but I gave up on that years ago. You will too when you realise these sort of events can't be predicted accurately by using the bible.

God did something about the girl kept as a sex slave, and the one in the crate,

You are kidding aren't you? He did nothing for 25 years for one and seven years for another. Why would God wait so long, huh? God could have easily did something earlier. By him waiting until now, he has sentenced these people to Hell on Earth. The fact he has waited so long, makes him are very cruel God in my books.

God punished the guilty person with death on a cross at Golgotha. Those were future sins then, and it was paid in full by Jesus, who in God’s eyes did those things. That is why God could not look at Jesus.

But if those people repent of their sins, then they will not be punished. Those poor victims may even end up in Hell while the dispicable people who violated them will be living it up in Heaven. Yeah, that's real justice that is. Those poor victims may never ever be able to accept Christ because of what God allowed to happen to them. In fact stuff like that to me is evidence there is no God. I can just imagine how much begging those people did to God to help them. But he didn't. No God was too busy elsewhere, probably helping the likes of you with something trivial.

Jesus will condemn you to hell for not feeding the hungry? He did says something like that, didn’t He, How about what God said:

Isaiah 42:19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD'S servant?
20 Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.
21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

What has this to do with the point I made?

If you're gonna quote scripture at least keep it relevent to what we're trying to discuss. I'm simply skipping over most of them.

Want to try hanging on a cross outside Jerusalem?

I'd rather do that than be locked in a basement as my father's sex slave for 25 years or be imprisoned in a crate for seven yeras. Sounds like Jesus had it pretty sweet, doesn't it?

QUOTE:
Jesus spent his life meeting physical needs (as well as spiritual needs) and huge numbers of people came to believe in him because of it.

How about you? Will you give Jesus another chance?

I gave him over 30 years of my life. Why would I waste any more time in delusion?

[ken1burton]

OnceConvinced.

This Forum is Debating, and this is very much debating, Debating what the True meaning of the Bible is in every detail. To explain the difference comes out as Preaching or telling it like it was meant to be told.

Jesus debated with the Jewish people all the time, And it also was called Preaching, or preaching what the difference is.

A Debate is to take a different point of view and to show that is correct, Compared to the other’s point of view, This is as much a debate as any debate every was.

Debate: a formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward.

These web sites are a public meeting, and the existence of God is in debate. How Scripture shows there is a God by the way He foretold the Future, and how that method is shown through the prophecies is in debate, and the interpretation I show is in debate as to the validity of it.

When ever I speak or write of the Scriptures to unbelievers or the Choir, There is a debate of thoughts going on. Which ones are correct, Which ones can be shown to be Scriptural, and how the Scriptures show there is a God, and that Jesus Christ is whom He sent.

The Jewish Nation had the Old Testament Prophecies, and Many copies before Jesus was laid in a manger in Bethlehem. God had stopped giving Prophecies about 400 years earlier ending with Malachi. Plenty of time to copy the different books which make up the Jewish Holy Scriptures, Some which had existed for almost 2,000 years as they cover about 1500 years of recording, Through about 40 different people.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. (Speaking of the Jewish Holy Scripture, not what is called the New Testament)

If someone can inspire all those words, And they come to pass, all in one day in time, 400 years after the last of them was written, Then that is not possible with man. Only God could have set that all up. All fulfilled the day of the Cross. Hundreds of Prophecies.

I will add this, so you know what I am claiming. Every similitude in those Scriptures (I speak of the Old Testament) is for the day of the Cross, Every Dream is for the day of the Cross, Every Vision is looking at the day of the Cross.

God took the day, made it as three different pictures, First as 4 6-hour periods, They are the 4 beasts with 6-wings, They are Daniel’s four beasts, seen as the Lord in Hosea’s four beasts. They are the four corners. They are the first 4 days of Genesis.

Second as 2 12-hour periods seen as 2 witnesses in Revelation, Because God doubles twice to Establish His words. The Second picture which is a day had to be made as a week (Isaiah 30:26) So they see the dead bodies three days and a half, or each as half a week, Life enters into them when they are fulfilled. Second picture seen as Jesus in hell, As the HEART of the Earth, 2 pieces together is the WHOLE HEART. Second day or picture as a Sword, a Two edge sword when looking at the Second picture. UPRIGHT in Heart is when they are revived and stand on their feet.

Third picture is as 1 24-hour period seen as 24 Elders in Revelation, That is the seventh time period or the different sevens in Revelation. Third picture is “Wrath�, Fury was the second, Anger was the first. Keywords God uses to keep the pieces in the right place.

Day as a Winepress, God TREADS then in Anger, TRAMPLES them in Fury, They are TRODDEN in Wrath, So God TREADING is seeing the first picture. The River in the Garden of Eden (Creation story is a Similitude) is divided into 4 heads. Fourth is the Euphrates.

Euphrates seen as dried up, Second picture is seeing Jesus in hell, as a desert, a pit where in is no water, People as waters in the first picture, as waves roaring, Second picture the people as the sands of the sea. Jesus comes as the Rain, So the third picture shows Streams in the Desert.

The day of the Cross is the “Wilderness�, Where Jesus was taken by the Spirit for the Temptation, Shown what He would have to go through, Given 42 months (three and a half years) to continue, Goes back and shows His Servants, (Disciples) things which must shortly come to pass. 42 months often not counted in Scripture, seen as His AGE, as Nothing before God.

The day is as a house built, Seeing the day as 7 time periods is Wisdom, Seeing the day as three pictures is understanding, Putting the pieces in the right place is Knowledge. You can not have Understanding or knowledge without getting wisdom first, Knowledge is EASY to those who have Understanding.

All the Parables are for the day of the Cross also. So His YOKE is EASY (Knowledge) and His Burden is Light (Showing God’s word)

Mark 4:13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

Sower is the day as 4 6-hour periods, Wayside is Sunset to Midnight, the Disciples as the seeds which fell, Good Ground is noon to sunset as Jesus dies on the cross, day as 3 pictures is 30 fold, 60 fold, 100 fold.

2-Samuel 7:11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house.
12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

The day of the Cross is when this HOUSE is built. “For Ever� is the day of the Cross, a day taken out of time, a day between Everlasting past, and everlasting future. “For ever ane ever� is the day of the Cross and everlasting future.

Proverbs 9:1 Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:

Proverbs 24:3 Through wisdom is an house builded; and by understanding it is established:
4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.

Precious and Pleasant are keywords for pieces of the third picture.

God said He would use the son of David, David had sons already, But God said “Shall proceed out of thy bowels� so they can not be the Messiah, Solomon was made King while David was still alive, God said He would raise Him up after David was dead, Solomon can not be the messiah or build the house.

Then David after the Promise takes Bathsheba while she is still Uriah’s wife, and Conceives a son, God smites the Child with sickness, and He dies 7 days after Birth, all babies go to God, He is sent back 1,000 years later to be REBORN at Bethlehem fulfilling the law of Children born outside wedlock in Deuteronomy 23:2. Using 100 year generations as Egypt’s 400 years was seen as 4 generations.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Jesus went to the Cross as a King (Psalms 2:6/7) He is the first begotten of the dead as a PRINCE. There are similitudes, like the Virgin Birth, But the fulfillments of all prophecies are the day of the Cross when Heaven and earth had to pass.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

After David took Bathsheba, God sent a Parable unto David about taking her to prepare for the WAYFARING man whom had come unto David, Jesus or the prophecy for the Messiah is who has come unto David:

2-Samuel 12:4 And there came a traveller unto the rich man, and he spared to take of his own flock and of his own herd, to dress for the wayfaring man that was come unto him; but took the poor man's lamb, and dressed it for the man that was come to him.

Jeremiah 14:8 O the hope of Israel, the saviour thereof in time of trouble, why shouldest thou be as a stranger in the land, and as a wayfaring man that turneth aside to tarry for a night?
“In sin did My mother conceive Me.� and “Thy Mother is a Hittite� is scriptural.

So Jesus is sent from Heaven, having died in 1004 B.C. REBORN in 4 B.C. (I use dates out of the “Reese Chronological Bible�) or 1,000 years later.

Isaiah 60:22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.

Next verse starts Chapter 61:

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Those so called Wise men, Knew the Prophecy for the Messiah, Knew it was David’s Child with Bathsheba, Knew it would be 1,000 years later. And knew from Isaiah Chapter 60 who should come, what to come on, and what to bring, and what the SIGN (STAR is a Sign) was. They were Bible Students, Not astrologers.


Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

ARISE is from the Dead.

2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

Kings to the Brightness of Thy rising “We three Kings from Orient are.�

4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.
5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.
6 The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD.

Came on Camels and brought Gold and Incense or Frankincense and Myrrh.

The Sign was the BRIGHTNESS of the MOON. STAR and Sign is the same. So when all the Stars fall, it is all the Signs came to pass.

Isaiah 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

There were mothers nursing their daughters in the Nativity scene. Or other babies there. That is why the Shepherds were told they would find HIM, laying in a manger.

Stars are for signs:

Third angel sounds in Revelation at Sunrise to noon, The time of the Judgment of Christ, Jesus made all things cursed, He is as the Earth itself, Earth destroyed by fire, is God’s word is like as a fire (Jeremiah 23:29) and Jesus dies at Golgotha.

Revelation 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

Amos 5:7 Ye who turn judgment to wormwood, and leave off righteousness in the earth,

Now for the Times in Scripture for 2029 A.D. which is a future similitude for the day of the Cross when it was fulfilled:

Time= Creation story in 3975 B.C. To the Baptism in 25 A.D. or 4,000 years, “In the fullness of Time, God sent forth His Son�

Times is the day of the Cross (three and a half years can be added to this as it is often seen as NOTHING). Seen as 2,000 years:

Psalms 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

The day of the Cross is the 1,000 year reign of Christ, the 1,000 as yesterday when it is past a similitude for the 1,000 years Jesus as David’s dead Child was with God.

Ecclesiastes 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told , yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

Remember “The rest of the Dead, lived not till the 1,000 years was over� “After 2 days will He revive us, in the third day He shall raise us up.�

The Half a time, or seen as Dividing of time is from the Cross in 29 A.D. to 2029 A.D. when Israel sees Jesus is the Christ through Scripture.

NOTE: I do not believe in a Second physical or Future physical coming for Christ after Jesus left, seen in Acts:

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

The day as 4 6-hour periods, seen as 4 days, seen as 4 1,000 cubit measurements of the River in Ezekiel Chapter 47:

Ezekiel 47:2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.
3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ankles.
4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.
5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.

For the day of the Cross to be fulfilled. First 6-hours is the “Feet� or covered to the Ankles, 10 Disciples as Toes (Daniel’s vision) Peter and Judas as Heels. Second 6-hours to the Knees (They gathered all the men of war, They all bowed the KNEE and said “Hail King of the Jews� or Every knee shall bow, every tongue shall confess, Fulfilled the day of the Cross.

Third 6-hours to the Loins (Gird up thy Lions like a man), Third beast with 6-wings had the face of a man, Face Old heaven and Old earth (first two 6-hour periods) flee from. Third 6-hours is the Black Horse with Balances, Seen as the Judgment, Day is being shortened, So it becomes the GREAT WHITE throne of Judgment, White Horse was the first seal.

“Weighed in the Balance and found wanting�, With His stripes we are healed, But Jesus still has to get into hell, Does that by taking future sins to Golgotha, and getting them all out. When He takes Future sins as His Own, He makes the Tree Evil, Then bears evil fruit or takes them all out of hell. (Know them by their fruit? REALLY?)

Jesus like Belshazzar took what was meant for the Priests and gave to common men. Kingdom divided or into the three pictures or seven time periods. Each of the seven as a day, the three pictures as a day, makes for 7 heads and ten horns. Crowns are cast as they are fulfilled.

Fourth 6-hours from noon to Sunset, Waters as a RIVER to SWIM in:

Isaiah 25:11 And he shall spread forth his hands in the midst of them, as he that swimmeth spreadeth forth his hands to swim: and he shall bring down their pride together with the spoils of their hands.

MIDST is the fourth 6-hour period, with the day seen as a week. So in the MIDST of the Week, He causes the Daly Sacrifice to cease as He dies on the Cross.

The day as 3 pictures, Seen as shown two times, Bringing to pass as the Third Witness, always written as (2 or 3). So where ever 2 or 3 are gathered together (day of the cross) There am I in the MIDST. As all of God’s words or prophecies are gathered together.

Second Picture, Jesus seen as a Woman, Seen as Cast down.

2-Kings 9:32 And he lifted up his face to the window, and said, Who is on my side? who? And there looked out to him two or three eunuchs.
33 And he said, Throw her down. So they threw her down: and some of her blood was sprinkled on the wall, and on the horses: and he trode her under foot.

“Looked out to him, TWO OR THREE eunuchs� great way to write that, But God is showing something.

Can be seen as two witnesses, or can be seen as three witnesses.

The day of the cross uses 2,000 years, Then 2,000 from 29 A.D. to 2029 A.D. when Israel sees Jesus is the Messiah, or the 4 1,000 cubit measurements of the river as the day, and as a future similitude for the nation of Israel.

Joshua 3:3 And they commanded the people, saying, When ye see the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, and the priests the Levites bearing it, then ye shall remove from your place, and go after it.
4 Yet there shall be a space between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure: come not near unto it, that ye may know the way by which ye must go: for ye have not passed this way heretofore.

Israel saw the Ark which is Jesus Christ, and the Levites or Priests lifting Him up on a cross at Golgotha in 29 A.D. Stay back 2,000 cubits is a similitude for follow Jesus after 2,000 years or in 2029 A.D.

Israel which is the Woman of Revelation Chapter 12 is kept from seeing the Face of the Serpent for Time, Times and a half a time or till 2029 A.D. Guess who Israel has not been able to see?

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

The Little Horn in Daniel (Peter) had things given into his hands for Time, times and the Dividing of time) or for the day of the Cross, Future similitude till 2029 A.D. for the CHURCH AGE, Then God shows Israel who will draw almost all mankind to Christ.

Was Peter, James and John, Then the three were replaced with just ONE, Peter, Speaking proud things. So Daniel keeps watching, to see if Peter will deny Jesus or not, The Lamb is a beast of the field, Slain, God’s word like as a fire, or given to the Flames, all visions look at the day of the Cross:

Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Remember Peter was telling Jesus that those things Jesus said would not come unto Him:

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Church age ends in 2029 A.D. as Israel sees Jesus is the Messiah, Seen as the SEA BEING HEALED:

Ezekiel 47:8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

Almost all mankind will come to Christ through Israel, a few holdouts so we do not put our Bibles away. Fishers of men do not have big enough nets. Israel will have the Scriptures put together in Truth, and it will be seen, and God will be answering their prayers like this world has never seen:

2Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

That had to be fulfilled the day of the Cross, and it was, But the future similitude for 2029 A.D. is a God who answers prayer immediately.

29 A.D. to 2029 A.D. is the “Third and fourth generation� God pours out the iniquity of the Father’s upon, or mankind did not want God, So God let us live without Him, so to speak. We are about to see what having God with us is like. As soon as Israel’s alarm clock goes off.

Now, For a Jew to make a marriage or come into a non-Jew is whoredom under Jewish law, Jesus reached for all mankind, So the Cup which was poured unto the Jews, is poured unto Jesus double.

The CUP is the SEA in Solomon’s Temple, it normally held 2,000 baths of water, Similitude for 2,000 years of sleep from 29 A.D. till 2029 A.D. Jesus gets 4,000 baths. The CUP has a Capacity of 3,000 baths, So 1,000 baths as yesterday when it is past or the 1,000 years with God before rebirth at Bethlehem RUNNETH OVER.

Then 1,000 as the day of the Cross, Then the 2,000 till 2029 A.D. That left from the Rebirth to the cross uncovered:

2Chronicles 4:5 And the thickness of it was an handbreadth, and the brim of it like the work of the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies; and it received and held three thousand baths.

Psalms 39:5 Behold, thou hast made my days as an handbreadth; and mine age is as nothing before thee: verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity. Selah.

Could the Sea in Solomon’s temple be the Holy Grail they were looking for?

Psalms 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

ENEMIES, Plural, Those are the Disciples at the Last Supper table. Enemies because Jesus is reaching for NON-JEWS.

Psalms 38:19 But mine enemies are lively, and they are strong: and they that hate me wrongfully are multiplied.

You hate Jesus wrongfully and you get Multiplied, By 1,000 that is:

Deuteronomy 1:11 (The LORD God of your fathers make you a thousand times so many more as ye are , and bless you, as he hath promised you!) (BLESS those who hate you)

Psalms 91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.

The “Right hand� is Sunset to midnight, the 10 Disciples who fled from the Mount of Olives is the 10,000 (He cometh with 10,000 of His saints, fulfilled) Peter is the one who fell by His side. Psalms 55:12 shows Judas did not hate Jesus. So only 11 seen as falling. In Daniel they are doubled:

Daniel 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Revelation 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

All looking at the Same thing, Seen also as Angels. The day of the Cross.

Sunset to Midnight, Let there be Light, I am the True Vine, I am the Good Shepherd, I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, In My Father’s house are many mansions, Etc, etc as Jesus pours out the Light.

Second day from midnight to sunrise, People as waters, Jesus as the Firmament, 144 with Judas as the waters above Jesus, sinners as waters under Jesus, Disciples flee as Islands. 144 with Judas added the Cubit or reached angel status, seen as a wall, Ezekiel said in tha day every wall would fall, Jesus said “I am He.� they all went backwards and fell to the ground.

Revelation 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

They hate Jesus wrongfully, Multiplied to 144,000. Seen as virgins in Revelation chapter 14. Body of Christ born the day of the Cross fulfills the Virgin Birth.

Angels gather all things which offend, Jesus has all iniquity, From one end of heaven to the other, from one end of the earth to the other. Sunset to Midnight, Old Heaven, Midnight to sunrise is old earth, new earth is sunrise to noon, New heaven is noon to sunset.

OK, back to the post, You told a fellow Christian you could never leave the Faith, and I covered the “IN and OUT� already, So if you have come for the Right reason, the only way you could end up “OUT� has to be you believe there is something God will not accept with you. There is NOTHING that will keep God from loving you, and bringing you to Him at earthly death. Although He is with you now. Not unbelief, Not even hating God or Jesus.

Remember that God gives us reasons not to believe in Him also. Like all the suffering, etc that we see in this world. Mankind did not want God, He has given us a chance to see what that is like. We will be seeing what having a God is really like shortly. That is why almost all mankind will follow, and those who do not will really be because God has their eyes shut.

I have hated God and fought against Him as hard as anyone, But I also saw I loved the God I was fighting. I can not justify God allowing things to happen to people. I just trust He gets them through it and these things somehow had to be allowed. My heart aches for them also. I just saw hating God was not an answer in me.

Lot is a similitude, His Wife is the Jewish Nation or looks back and worships God as before, made a Pillar of salt, Salt is for a sacrifice, So Israel is a sacrifice for 2,000 years from seeing Jesus is the Messiah, as Christians come to Jesus (Not really in truth). So take it with a grain, or a pillar of Salt, Just keep searching things out.

Most people who predict usually keep it close, so they can profit, a few years, etc. I do not think I will be around on earth in 2029 A.D. But either way, I did not come up with this, and if God has me chasing my tail, Then I chase my tail:

Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Remember Jesus was in the MIDST on a Cross. The repenting, etc, Sin still having to be dealt with was not truth. If God wants to use me in a way, I would not want to be used, So be it, But the Scriptures seem to be right on target here. And it adds up, What is called, Sound Church Doctrine does not add up at all.

As far as seeing what will be done by God in the Future, God always shows it to someone:

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

I just saw what the prophets were telling of what He would be doing.

Jesus took future sins to Golgotha, They had already been paid for. Can God now look at the man who kept his daughter for a sex slave for 25 years as guilty of that when He held Jesus as guilty, and put Him to death for it? Now that only covers the guilty part, not the suffering of the girl which God did not prevent.

NO, The Repenting does nothing, the sins ended at Golgotha as paid in full. That is one of the things Jesus and the Disciples were sealed from seeing as truth. They do not need to repent, They will always remember what they did, God will never bring it up, They might.

Hosea 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

Repenting is hid from His eyes, To repent is to tell God that Jesus did not take our sins, That we have to deal with them. God knows those sins have been paid in full, So has no reason to see repenting. God desires we come to repentance, But then to really see that He already has it covered by grace.

The Victims do not end up in hell, Hell ceased to exist the third day. We all have the righteousness of Christ when we get to Heaven, But we have to live with how we were on earth, Those memories are Eternal. And that is what we need to try to avoid, Doing those things which Jesus paid for which we can never forget. So those who are forgiven more, Loveth more.

Forgiveness is a similitude, it never happens, All sin was laid on Jesus and He was not forgiven, He had the UNPARDONABLE SIN, He had to die.

When Jesus told the Sheep they fed the Hungry, they ended up in hell, That is prior to Jesus taking sins away, So Jesus did not see what God was really saying, Thinking the Sheep were the Good ones, when in fact they were the Wicked, That is why when Jesus said they fed the hungry, they asked when, But when He told the Goats, they did not, They asked, When they had not. The Sheep never did, the Goats had done it.

25 years as your dad’s sex slave is a lot harder if you really love your dad, and hate what he is doing. Not to mention taking the Babies away.

You gave Jesus over 30 years of your life? And did mankind profit by that? Nothing of that made you a worst person for that, did it? Other then a bitterness for God?

Lamentations 3:15 He hath filled me with bitterness, he hath made me drunken with wormwood.

Didn’t you help people whom you would not have helped, had you not followed Christ?
Was it really 30 wasted years?

Ken

[OnceConvinced]

Jesus debated with the Jewish people all the time, And it also was called Preaching, or preaching what the difference is.

Jesus did not bombard people with scripture. Debating and preaching are two entirely different things. Every little point you make does not need to be backed up with a scripture. It will just turn most people off reading what you have to say. Any good points you do make will be lost amongst all the bible bashing.

What followed after this was a whole heap of preaching about stuff I personally am not interested in and has nothing to do with the topics we have been discussing and is most definitely not debate, especially since I told you I don't take any of it seriously. All it serves to do is help you push what I see seems to be your agenda of end times preaching.

Like I said, I don't take anyone seriously who thinks they have dates of future events, even if they have done their calculations from the bible. To me it's just like some guy standing on the streets with a sign reading "The end is near". Everybody else before you who predicted dates did similar sort of stuff and were all proved to be wrong. I have wasted enough of my life trying to figure out when the end times are going to take place (if they ever will). I have no intention of studying any further on the matter.

Perhaps starting a new thread on escatology would be more effective. You're more likely to have people who are interested in that stuff reading it.

OK, back to the post

Good idea.

Most people who predict usually keep it close, so they can profit, a few years, etc. I do not think I will be around on earth in 2029 A.D. But either way, I did not come up with this, and if God has me chasing my tail, Then I chase my tail:

What really makes you think it was God that showed you this? Isn't it just as likely that you discovered these things yourself and thought they were so cool, that you figured it must have been God that showed you them? (just like those before you have done?) I used to think all the time that God was showing me things in scripture, but now I realise it was just me all along.

God supposedly showed all these other people from the past stuff too. All those other end time preachers. But yet they turned out to be wrong. I believe you will be no different.

Remember Jesus was in the MIDST on a Cross. The repenting, etc, Sin still having to be dealt with was not truth. If God wants to use me in a way, I would not want to be used, So be it, But the Scriptures seem to be right on target here. And it adds up, What is called, Sound Church Doctrine does not add up at all.

Yep, scriptures usually do add up if you want them to add up.

As far as seeing what will be done by God in the Future, God always shows it to someone:

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

I just saw what the prophets were telling of what He would be doing.

And no one else has seen this before now? Why has God not seen fit to tell other Christians about this? Why did he not see fit to correct the Hal Lyndseys of this world and give them the correct information instead of bad information? Why did he wait until now and why did he offer these revelations specifically to you?

The Victims do not end up in hell, Hell ceased to exist the third day. We all have the righteousness of Christ when we get to Heaven, But we have to live with how we were on earth, Those memories are Eternal. And that is what we need to try to avoid, Doing those things which Jesus paid for which we can never forget. So those who are forgiven more, Loveth more.

So you believe Hell no longer exists? Really? That's certainly an unusual conclusion for a Christian to come to. So those scumbags we're talking about will get off scot free and perhaps even end up in Heaven? That really is appalling justice.

Didn’t you help people whom you would not have helped, had you not followed Christ?
Was it really 30 wasted years?

No it wasn't all a total waste and I hope people did benefit. However there was a lot of time wasted doing things that I could have better put my time to. One thing for sure, is I definitely don't want to waste any more time with eschatology, particuarly when it doesn't really matter in the overall scheme of things. If the end is coming, it's coming. There's no need to try to figure out when it's going to happen.

[ken1burton]

OnceConvinced.

Jesus did not bombard the people with Scripture? Every read the Sermon on the mount? And that was near the start of His earthly ministry. Also, it was written down about 30 years after the event, So there was a lot they did not cover.

Matthew 15:32 Then Jesus called his disciples unto him, and said, I have compassion on the multitude, because they continue with me now three days, and have nothing to eat: and I will not send them away fasting, lest they faint in the way.

Three days worth of Preaching, That is a Bombardment.

I back up the points with Scripture to show they are relevant. You may know the verses, Others might not.

The Topics is about God, Eternal life, Etc, And it is the Scriptures which speak of Heaven and the Events here and there. You have stated how you do not believe what I am saying, That sounds like a DEBATE to me. Two different view of God, Loving or Cruel, Sound like a Debate, To serve God or not, that sounds like a debate, Having to go to Heaven at Death, Sounds like a Debate.

If we both agreed on all the different points, it would not be a Debate. Or posts show very different views. I back my view with Scripture because it is different then what others see, and the verses show how I came to that conclusion. Heaven is a Scriptural Topic.

I am not preaching end times, See Hal Lindsey for that. I show where the end times was the day of the Cross. If you do not take any of this serious, Why do you take quoting Scripture then personal? The Concept of Debating Christianity and Religion also says a lot about what is posted on these threads.

You post Against Christianity and Religion, and I am posting support of being a Christian and that there is a God. Escaping Heaven is a SUB-TOPIC. Which has to have a Heaven to even be a Topic. I do not hear you saying you think Heaven evolved and has nothing to do with God.

You complain that I preach, That is the side of the Debate that I am on. I use what I can to support the side of the debate, So I speak of the love of God. Of the foretelling by God of future events. So you can call it preaching, or showing what I see as the side of the debate you do not wish to see. We are not debating this on the Atheist Only web site. You know as a unbeliever you will be debating Christians at this Forum. And this Christian knows the verses also.

You said you followed Jesus for 30 years, and you know the Verses. I assume you can run circles around most Christians, as most do not know the verses very well, and many are new to Christianity. The Bible being very hard to read to a lot of them.

I am not setting any restrictions as to what you can use to support your view. You do sound more like a person who believes in God, Just that you do not like God at all. After all, If one did not believe God could stop a person from locking their daughter up and keeping her as a sex slave, They sure would not question God not doing something to help her.

And there has to be a God to blame Him for the Starving Children. And if there is No God, then the blame can only rest with mankind.

Do you know what “End times� is? It is not Israel seeing Jesus is the Messiah, It is not the end of the Church age. End times was fulfilled the day of the Cross. The Old world ended, the New World began, The prophecies for what would happen during the end times was fulfilled Good Friday, 29 A.D.

It is not an end of the physical earth, It is not Jesus physically coming back to earth. It is not all the physical stars falling to earth (like we could survive more then one?) It was the signs coming to pass that Scripture spoke of.

Other then the odds of being right are at least a million to one, Bases on how many have spoken on the times the Scriptures speak of. The others being wrong has nothing to do with me. The Millions who buy a losing lotto ticket, has nothing to do with the one who bought the winning one except the odds concerning a lotto drawing.

No doubt people can put together a mixture and see it as Truth, happens all the time, That is why I reference the points, So they can be searched, if a person wishes to look, People seldom find without searching.

Maybe God likes the way I preach. Who knows why God shows anyone something? Either way, I am glad He showed me, and I showed others. His timetable for Israel is almost here, He would have someone telling of it. He might have showed you, But you do not take this serious as you said.

Hell no longer exists, That is what the old Testament Prophecies show, and Jesus had to fulfill them to the jot and tittle. You wish not to believe what the prophecies predicted, Then plan on a hell, But you will end up in Heaven with all the rest of mankind.

If hell existed, Do you think there would be anyone in Heaven who would want to escape?

As far as the scumbags, Saddam Hussein is in Heaven, With the Righteousness of Jesus, as Adolf Hitler is. The Devil, Satan, Lucifer, What every you seem to think they are, or He is, are also in Heaven. But as you do not want to take it serious, or do any searching, You will just have to see it when you get there.

It does not matter to me when Israel sees Jesus is the Messiah, God showed me, I show others. I do feel a little bad the Christianity does not want to know the Truth of Scriptures and will not be the ones to show Israel that Jesus is the Christ. Christianity will really get confused when Israel starts seeing the truth, and putting it all together right.

You keep putting that end times as a future event, You already know the prophecies, look at them for the day of the Cross.

You try to remember a name, and it does not come to you, Two days later the name pops up in your memory. Our brains keep searching for the questions it has been searching for. You will never stop looking for the answers to end times, You might as well get it done, Then is when a search stops. When the answer is known.

Ken

[OnceConvinced]

OnceConvinced.

Jesus did not bombard the people with Scripture? Every read the Sermon on the mount? And that was near the start of His earthly ministry. Also, it was written down about 30 years after the event, So there was a lot they did not cover.

Matthew 15:32 Then Jesus called his disciples unto him, and said, I have compassion on the multitude, because they continue with me now three days, and have nothing to eat: and I will not send them away fasting, lest they faint in the way.

Three days worth of Preaching, That is a Bombardment.

All I can go by is what I see in the bible. I never saw Jesus quoting a lot of scripture. Most of his preaching was done without scripture.

Anyway, I'll quit hassling you about the bible hopping. I can see your reasons why you do it.

The Topics is about God, Eternal life, Etc, And it is the Scriptures which speak of Heaven and the Events here and there. You have stated how you do not believe what I am saying, That sounds like a DEBATE to me. Two different view of God, Loving or Cruel, Sound like a Debate, To serve God or not, that sounds like a debate, Having to go to Heaven at Death, Sounds like a Debate.

I agree.

I am not preaching end times, See Hal Lindsey for that. I show where the end times was the day of the Cross. If you do not take any of this serious, Why do you take quoting Scripture then personal? The Concept of Debating Christianity and Religion also says a lot about what is posted on these threads.

I don't take quoting scripture personally. I just do not recognise it as God's word, only man's.

You post Against Christianity and Religion, and I am posting support of being a Christian and that there is a God. Escaping Heaven is a SUB-TOPIC. Which has to have a Heaven to even be a Topic. I do not hear you saying you think Heaven evolved and has nothing to do with God.

I personally think Heaven is too good to be true. But no, if it is true, I don't believe it evolved and if it is true then God definitely created it.

I am not setting any restrictions as to what you can use to support your view. You do sound more like a person who believes in God, Just that you do not like God at all. After all, If one did not believe God could stop a person from locking their daughter up and keeping her as a sex slave, They sure would not question God not doing something to help her.

I am an agnostic. But I do tend to argue from the point of view there is a God, to hopefully make people see that their beliefs they hold about him really don't make a lot of sense. I'm not against the idea of God's existance, I just can no longer believe in the God that Christians are claiming exists. If this God does exist in some form I don't believe it's what the bible describes.

And there has to be a God to blame Him for the Starving Children. And if there is No God, then the blame can only rest with mankind.

True. But on the other hand if God exists then he must hold some accountability for his the actions of his own creations, the beings he created with free will and a rebellious nature. I tend to believe now that "shite happens". The reason why nothing is being done is because there is no God - or at least he is a God that has little interest in us here now. That makes more sense to me than a loving, merciful God who would just stand by and let such atrocities happen and blame it on man for not believing in him.

Do you know what “End times� is? It is not Israel seeing Jesus is the Messiah, It is not the end of the Church age. End times was fulfilled the day of the Cross. The Old world ended, the New World began, The prophecies for what would happen during the end times was fulfilled Good Friday, 29 A.D.

I'm talking about the apocalyptic beliefs of the end times. Those yet to come. The sort of thing you're preaching about. Trying to predict future events that show that Christ's return is on its way. Isn't that the sort of thing you're preaching about?

Hell no longer exists, That is what the old Testament Prophecies show, and Jesus had to fulfill them to the jot and title. You wish not to believe what the prophecies predicted, Then plan on a hell, But you will end up in Heaven with all the rest of mankind.

Heaven's fine by me. But I think you may very well be the lone voice in the Christian wilderness on that one!

If hell existed, Do you think there would be anyone in Heaven who would want to escape?

It depends on what Heaven is really like. Perhaps after a hundred trillion years you may get bored with the place? It may turn out to be a curse rather than a blessing.

As far as the scumbags, Saddam Hussein is in Heaven, With the Righteousness of Jesus, as Adolf Hitler is. The Devil, Satan, Lucifer, What every you seem to think they are, or He is, are also in Heaven. But as you do not want to take it serious, or do any searching, You will just have to see it when you get there.

After all the years of bible study, discussion and teaching I have never come across anyone who believed all those guys were in heaven. Once again, I believe you are a lone voice in the Christian wilderness with that one.

Also when I said I don't take it seriously, I was specifically referring to apocolyptic "end times" teachings. Escatology. I stopped studying it 20 years ago and stopped taking it seriously about 15 years ago.

You try to remember a name, and it does not come to you, Two days later the name pops up in your memory. Our brains keep searching for the questions it has been searching for. You will never stop looking for the answers to end times, You might as well get it done, Then is when a search stops. When the answer is known.

I have no desire to know about future events. Not when it comes to the end of the world anyway. Not when it comes to the so-called return of Christ. What's important is living life now. There is enough to worry about now without worrying about future doom and gloom.

[ken1burton]

OnceConvinced.

I think we misunderstand things here. I show that the Book of Revelations, Happened the day of the Cross, and that is where John is seeing in, On the Lord’s day.

The First 4 seals is the day as 4 6-hour periods, So the Black Horse with Balances is Sunrise to noon as Jesus faced the Judgment, and the Pale Horse death followed by hell was Jesus died and descended into hell between noon to sunset.

The only Future event I speak on is the Jewish nation seeing Jesus is the Messiah, and showing most of mankind. The Switch from the Church to Israel is part of that. Mainly because Israel will see it right, Christianity did not get it right.

I do not believe Jesus will ever come again physically, I base that on John 14:19.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

I take that Jesus and God IN SPIRIT makes their abode with us now on earth. That we in a sense have a Glorified body by God and Jesus able to dwell with us as sin is no longer a barrier. We have a heavenly body waiting for the moment this earthly body dies, Absent from the Body, Is present with the Lord.

Add these two scriptures of old Testament prophecy together, See them fulfilled the day of the Cross as they are prophecies, and see if hell could still exist:

Zechariah 9:11 As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.
12 Turn you to the strong hold, ye prisoners of hope: even to day do I declare that I will render double unto thee;

Note they were in the pit where in was no water, but they left. and they are seen as prisoners.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

If Jesus had to make an end of sins, Bring in everlasting righteousness, and also set the prisoners free, What could cause anyone to go to hell, as sin has ended as Accountable unto man?

Jesus took Future sins, and died at Golgotha as the sins being His own to fulfill the law that every man would be put to death for His own sin, So Jesus was the last person to die with sin, So where Jesus went, the others were told, They could not come. There is no sin to charge anyone with anymore.

God did not show this to Jesus and the Disciples, But it is in the Scriptures, and it has a seal. Without seeing a very loving God, you could not see this, nor would you believe it.

So when I tell a person sin ended, and we all have the righteousness of Christ on us, I do not have to worry that someone will take this as a “Get out of jail free card.� and do wrong, as they would not believe it unless they saw a loving God.

What we will be doing millions of years is a question. I did have a pair of Mormons come over once, They asked me (While my wife was at the table) “Wouldn’t you like to be Eternally joined in Matrimony?, with your wife�. I told them, “A hundred years is a long time.� Then I told them there is no marriage in Heaven.

We do have World without end, So there will always be more people coming to heaven daily. More people on earth being born again. But, Eternity is something that would seem to be a problem, How many times can we do things? Maybe every thousand years we get have a memory laps, and all things become new to us.

I used to give a woman in a Nursing Home new magazines, Then I realized, Each time she turned a page, She had no memory of ever seeing that before. She did not need anything different to read. Almost seems like we would have to forget things, Perfect memories or recall in Heaven, when we would meet many new people each day, Year upon year.

I think you have come across a lot of people who believe that Saddam Hussein and Adolf Hitler is in heaven. But they did not think out what “Everyone is saved� means. It would have to mean Saddam Hussein and Adolf Hitler is saved also. So when someone says “all are saved.� Ask them about Saddam Hussein, About the different ones that make the headlines. Etc. Many of them do not really believe that, thought they say it.

How would you like to live for eternity, having done what they did. Seeing the Love God and Jesus has for you, and have to remember how you were, What you did? And there being no way to go back and change it.

The old World is the one with the END, The New World is World without end, As that happened the day of the Cross, There is no end of the world ever coming.

Ezekiel 7:2 Also, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD unto the land of Israel; An end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land.
3 Now is the end come upon thee, and I will send mine anger upon thee, and will judge thee according to thy ways, and will recompense upon thee all thine abominations.
4 And mine eye shall not spare thee, neither will I have pity: but I will recompense thy ways upon thee, and thine abominations shall be in the midst of thee: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

Abominations is Future sins on Jesus, Noon to sunset, fourth 6-hour period seen as the MIDST of the week. For the overspreading of abominations (future sins on Jesus) He shall make it desolate or Jesus has to die.

5 Thus saith the Lord GOD; An evil, an only evil, behold, is come.
6 An end is come, the end is come: it watcheth for thee; behold, it is come.
7 The morning is come unto thee, O thou that dwellest in the land: the time is come, the day of trouble is near, and not the sounding again of the mountains.

Sunrise, the start of the Morning, is when old Heaven and Old earth flee from His Face, seen as the face of a man on the third beasts with 6-wings which is New earth, New heaven is noon to sunset.

The Book of Revelation is not that hard to place at the day of the Cross. All the different sevens is the same thing, the day seen as 7 days. Shown as 3 pictures, So usually a third of this, and a third of that is effected, When seen as 4 6-hour periods in the first picture, a fourth is effected, Etc.

Sunset to Midnight is the first. Fire, Hail, Mingled with blood as the First angel sounds. (God’s word like as a fire in Jeremiah 23:29 as Jesus pours out God’s word at the last Supper) Hail is Judas saying “Hail Master� as he kisses Jesus, Mingled with Blood is as Peter cuts off the ear.

Third angel sounds, the Star wormwood falls as the Judgment falls on Christ from Sunrise to noon: Amos 5:7 Ye who turn judgment to wormwood, and leave off righteousness in the earth,

Second beast with 6-wings has the face of a Calf, Second seal as the Red Horse, Together they form the Red Heifer, God makes who is above the Head, Those under the Tail, Jesus is the Head of the first 6-hours, Then Judas and the 144 with Him take Jesus, So He as the red heifer had to be BEHEADED. God’s word like as a fire provide the Ashes to cleanse the house.

The day as the birth of the Body of Christ (unto us a Child is born) So the first 6-hours as the Womb, We go astray as soon as we issue out of the Womb or Jesus takes sin at Midnight, Second seal is red Horse, So great red dragon is ready to devour the Child as soon as it is born, or each time period is poured like vials into the next. The Child is caught up unto God, or that is fulfilled.

God making an END of the four corners (Ezekiel chapter 7) or the first picture as 4 6-hour periods, First picture is ANGER, So that is fulfilled, 2=Fury, 3=wrath.

Like Jonah, Nineveh is a city of three days journey, Jonah enters ONE days journey, Jonah is GOOD to be ANGRY unto death. The Gourd is death, the Shadow of the gourd, Shadow of death is pleasant after the suffering, Jesus as a Worm in Job 25:6 smites the Gourd, or ends death. God uses many similitudes.

There is no future doom and Gloom, Actually most of mankind coming to know Christ through the Jewish nation will result in a world which is a nice place to live, Like the Meek inherits it.

Ken

[Homicidal_Cherry53]

Oh joy, part of a post for me that I missed all this time?

I have often likened Heaven (hell also) to a Nursing Home, Those who have had very little in their lives, Now get fed every day, a place to sleep. Other people to talk to. But those who had a lot, The Homes, the Cars, the Family, They do not fare as well. It is more like hell to them as what they have had, is gone, and they pretty much have what they all have.

This is not the case with all the people, But in general, it is. So Heaven or hell can be seen as how one sees it themselves. Rich is not really rich, For a poor person in the United states compared with a rich one in Haiti might not be very different, But it is being richer then the ones around you. And in Heaven, I do not see there will be a difference. Only in the minds of those who now have to live with others as equal.


Homicidal_Cherry53.

That phrase always made me wonder a bit, How do people think it is “REIGN� in Hell. Or even that in Heaven you have to serve. There are no options, Hell was just a place of sleep till Jesus died for sins, then a waiting place till the third day.

Jesus could not leave hell, Even though God gave Him the power to take up His life again, For He had to be with them on the third day, If He left, He had no way to get back into hell to be there. You got the keys to death and hell by dying a sinner. As Jesus took Future sins to Golgotha, there is no more sins available, to get the keys to death and hell. So He had to wait with them till the third day so the Scriptures are fulfilled.

I never implied a choice or anything of the sort. I used hell in the symbolic sense to describe a place of unimaginable horror. I then stated that I would prefer to live there, if I could live free, than live in a paradise where my every decision was controlled by a dictator.

Your dogma means little to me because I don't believe it. In fact, I never posted in this thread to imply that you could escape a place that I don't believe exists. I did so because someone asked why someone wouldn't want to be in heaven.

[OnceConvinced]

OnceConvinced.

I think we misunderstand things here. I show that the Book of Revelations, Happened the day of the Cross, and that is where John is seeing in, On the Lord’s day.

The First 4 seals is the day as 4 6-hour periods, So the Black Horse with Balances is Sunrise to noon as Jesus faced the Judgment, and the Pale Horse death followed by hell was Jesus died and descended into hell between noon to sunset.

The only Future event I speak on is the Jewish nation seeing Jesus is the Messiah, and showing most of mankind. The Switch from the Church to Israel is part of that. Mainly because Israel will see it right, Christianity did not get it right.

I do not believe Jesus will ever come again physically, I base that on John 14:19.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

I take that Jesus and God IN SPIRIT makes their abode with us now on earth. That we in a sense have a Glorified body by God and Jesus able to dwell with us as sin is no longer a barrier. We have a heavenly body waiting for the moment this earthly body dies, Absent from the Body, Is present with the Lord.

Add these two scriptures of old Testament prophecy together, See them fulfilled the day of the Cross as they are prophecies, and see if hell could still exist:

Zechariah 9:11 As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.
12 Turn you to the strong hold, ye prisoners of hope: even to day do I declare that I will render double unto thee;

Note they were in the pit where in was no water, but they left. and they are seen as prisoners.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

If Jesus had to make an end of sins, Bring in everlasting righteousness, and also set the prisoners free, What could cause anyone to go to hell, as sin has ended as Accountable unto man?

Jesus took Future sins, and died at Golgotha as the sins being His own to fulfill the law that every man would be put to death for His own sin, So Jesus was the last person to die with sin, So where Jesus went, the others were told, They could not come. There is no sin to charge anyone with anymore.

God did not show this to Jesus and the Disciples, But it is in the Scriptures, and it has a seal. Without seeing a very loving God, you could not see this, nor would you believe it.

So when I tell a person sin ended, and we all have the righteousness of Christ on us, I do not have to worry that someone will take this as a “Get out of jail free card.� and do wrong, as they would not believe it unless they saw a loving God.

What we will be doing millions of years is a question. I did have a pair of Mormons come over once, They asked me (While my wife was at the table) “Wouldn’t you like to be Eternally joined in Matrimony?, with your wife�. I told them, “A hundred years is a long time.� Then I told them there is no marriage in Heaven.

We do have World without end, So there will always be more people coming to heaven daily. More people on earth being born again. But, Eternity is something that would seem to be a problem, How many times can we do things? Maybe every thousand years we get have a memory laps, and all things become new to us.

You have some interesting ideas. Very unusual, but interesting.

Ok, maybe I misjudged you on the whole "end times" preaching thing. But I still maintain that trying to work out future dates based on the bible just doesn't work. It never has and I don't believe ever will.

I used to give a woman in a Nursing Home new magazines, Then I realized, Each time she turned a page, She had no memory of ever seeing that before. She did not need anything different to read. Almost seems like we would have to forget things, Perfect memories or recall in Heaven, when we would meet many new people each day, Year upon year.

I think God would have to erase our memories, but isn't that in fact a violation of freewill, which God seems to be very adament about not doing?

I think you have come across a lot of people who believe that Saddam Hussein and Adolf Hitler is in heaven.

Ah no, you seem to be the only one who insists they are in Heaven. What Christians generally tend to believe though is that if they repented to Christ before their deaths they would be in Heaven.

How would you like to live for eternity, having done what they did. Seeing the Love God and Jesus has for you, and have to remember how you were, What you did? And there being no way to go back and change it.

After a few thousand years, they'd probably get over the guilt.

The old World is the one with the END, The New World is World without end, As that happened the day of the Cross, There is no end of the world ever coming.

Your views almost seem to be preterest. Are you are preterist?

[ken1burton]

OnceConvinced.

Many people think or at least say “all are saved.� and SAVED would imply heaven.

I am not sure how Eternal life could be as far as not getting tired of things which have been done over and over. Forgetting seems to be built into the system, We move, and we do not keep going back to the old house, New Memories seem to replace the old ones, and not used, The old ones fade into the background.

Like our lives here, The Today thoughts seem to stand out, and are what we deal with, So even with millions of years, it must go by a day to day basis.

They might get over the guilt, But it sure will not be nice to have that guilt even for a short time.

The day of the Cross fulfilled the Prophecies, All were fulfilled, Then all together they form Truth. All prophecies seen as lies till fulfilled, Then when Jesus said “All Hail�

Isaiah 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

Stones are those cold to Jesus, Coals of fire are those who follow Christ, So He kindles coals with His breadth (Breathed on them and said “Receive Ye the Holy Ghost�) So “All Hail� is to the Stones and believers:

Psalms 18:12 At the brightness that was before him his thick clouds passed, hail stones and coals of fire.
13 The LORD also thundered in the heavens, and the Highest gave his voice; hail stones and coals of fire.

Thick clouds is sins passing away the day of the Cross:

Isaiah 44:22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

Seeing Jesus come in Clouds is when they see Jesus having sins on Him the day of the Cross when He took them (Isaiah 53:6)

Words like Pre or Post terist do not apply, the 1,000 year reign was the day of the Cross. That is why the rest of the dead lived not again till the 1,000 years was over (After 2 days will He revive us, in the third day, He shall raise us up) Then all shortened back to one day and all fulfilled at once.

Ken