Can you escape from Heaven?

[daedalus 2.0]

In case it isn't to your liking, in case it was sold as a condo but is really a shack, or maybe you get bored?

Can you escape from Heaven? Once in, are you required to stay forever? No matter what?

[daedalus 2.0]

Daedalus.

Sorry, I lead a sheltered life,...
Ken

Don't apologize to me. It's your ONE life. Do with it what you will. (Just don't ask us to agree).

However, extreme religiosity is very common with people who have done drugs such as acid, mushrooms, etc.

Do you suffer from epilepsy? It is another hallmark.

Another hallmark is authoritative parents and a suggestive mind (not necessarily both).


I'm just trying to understand your motivation to persist in quoting a book no one really cares about or accepts as a valid source in debate.

Of course, this is a "theology, doctrine and dogma" thread. You are in your right to make up whatever you want and claim it as dogma, doctrine or theology.

As am I.

Who is right!?!?

[OnceConvinced]

OnceConvinced.

WRONG QUESTION. Wonder if those who think they are Holy Spirit filled Christians are really Holy Spirit filled? And if it is truth or not is what needs to be sought out, We can get a billion of people to agree, That does not make them right.

Nope. Not the wrong question. A perfectly valid question. Do you think you are holy-spirit filled? How do we know you are spirit filled? What makes other Christians who would disagree with your interpretations less spirit-filled than you?

The object is not to agree with me, But to search the Scriptures if these things are Truth. And when you use the New Testament, Search the Old Testament to see if they got it right or wrong.

Which I've done. What I have learnt is that there are many conflicting teachings about Heaven and Hell. One thing I have found out is the Holy Spirit does not guarantee unity amongst Christians on those beliefs.

What you seem to be suggesting is that your take is the one true "holy-spirit" lead take. And that the way to see it from your point of view is to study scripture. However I put it to you that holy-spirit filled Christians are not guaranteed to come to the same conclusions as you on this topic.

As for all the bible hopping you did after this, I'm not really interested in a whole lot of preaching. Taking a whole lot of scriptures and bombarding them at people is an ineffective technique as scriptures can be used to back up any theory or opinions you have. It's also going to turn them off reading your posts. How about sticking to one or two and bring others up if necessary later?

[OnceConvinced]

OK, I know these comments aren't directed specifically at me, but I found this post a lot more enjoyable to read, so I can't help but jump in:

The Bible might not have been true so far in YOUR EYES, Maybe there is a problem with how you see things? Like all those starving Children. If believe in God increased, Would the starving Children problem get better or worst in proportion to the percentage? Then take it the other way, If rejecting God increased, How would that effect the percentage of starving Children?

I don't see it would make any difference. Everyone feels horrified at the starvation, not just Christians. Many unbelievers head overseas to try to help. Many sponser children through organisations like World Vision. Becoming a Christian does not make you more sensitive to the needs of others.

Did your eyesight just improve? Can you see better?

I personally think you need to remove the rose-colored sunglasses which is allowing you to be blinded. What sort of a hidious God would allow millions of children to starve because not enough people are accepting Christ as their savior?

The Jewish Nation will see how Scripture really fits together, and most of the world will be converted by them to belief in God, and belief in Jesus as the Messiah. So the indication is just around the Corner, 2029 A.D. they accept Jesus as the Messiah, This will start in 2021 A.D. as they burn the weapons for seven years or all the arguments against Jesus being the Messiah will be burned up with God’s word like as a fire.

Ken, you have got to realise, prophets have been predicting future events for hundreds of years, particuarly relating to biblical end-times and what they all have in common is they were all completely and utterly wrong. Why should we take these predictions seriously? Are you willing to bet your own salvation on these prophesies?

Taking this sort of stuff seriously really really lowers your integrity as someone attempting to speak for God. It shows a real gullibility IMO. Which false prophet did you get this stuff from anyway? Jack Van Impe perhaps? Or Hal Linsey maybe?

I more then understand the tragedy of 1 starving child, and that is even one hungry at mealtime. One unloved, One hurting, One sick. And that also has to go for adults. Following Christ is a step towards the solution to many of those problems our world has.

Meanwhile thousands more die of starvation. What a loving and merciful God you serve.

By the way, Thanks, I can use all the Blessings I can get:

Don't you think those starving children should be given the blessings? Do you think you are more needing of blessings than them? I wonder if you would think so highly of God if you were one of those starving children. I wonder if you would be criticising people for not accepting Christ as their savior or criticising God for not providing "all your needs". I wonder if you would be thanking God while the vultures stalked you. "Those damn unbelievers! They should be accepting Christ as their savior so that I can get a bite to eat."

This may come as a shock, But every Christian is suppose to Preach, Part of following what Jesus did which was to preach. As far as to Condescend, I can not help how another takes my words as far as them seeing them as personal. And these words could very well be God’s Spirit using the keyboard.

Preaching the way you often preach is not a very effective method of spreading the gospel. Christ also teaches that you should feed the hungry, clothe them and all that. Why aren't you heading over to Africa now to help those in need? Do you think it's more important to preach than to act? Doesnt the bible say that we will know you are a Christians by your love? Wouldn't those children starving in Africa be better served by you getting over there and doing what you can rather than bible bashing people? The longer you sit here, the more kids are dropping dead from lack of food and water. You could save a couple of blasphemers here or save a village of starving children over there. Instead of blaming unbelievers for all that's bad in this world, why don't you put your effort and money where your mouth is and follow Christ's example? He didn't just preach, did he?

I just got down to your response of my not needing to finish the post, as you find it tiresome. Well, I already wrote quite a bit, and this might be for others, and not for you. This is an open forum. Sorry if you thought the Forum was only for posts to and from you.

At least this time round you're not doing so much bible thumping. Much more interesting to read. I prefer to see people thinking for themselves rather than just letting the bible do the thinking for them.

[daedalus 2.0]

I more then understand the tragedy of 1 starving child, and that is even one hungry at mealtime. One unloved, One hurting, One sick. And that also has to go for adults. Following Christ is a step towards the solution to many of those problems our world has.

Meanwhile thousands more die of starvation. What a loving and merciful God you serve. .

He MORE THEN (sic) understands it! Obviously all those people who claim to be Xian and are starving aren't TRUE Xians! If only Ken would put his Faith where his mouth is and go Prophesize to them, all would be better.

What a tool. I can't stand this kind of self-imposed ignorance and arrogance.


2000 years since Jesus. Jesus couldn't solve the problems then, and 2000 years later his followers have only made it worse. More people are starving today than ever - and there are more Xians than ever.

Ken is just making his theology up as he goes along; ignoring the suffering. "la, la, la I can't hear you! I got my happy, Jesus-glasses on!"


I honestly hope there is a Hell when I hear people say things like this.

"Children are suffering so I can learn a lesson - 'cause I'm SOOOO important and that African urchin is expendable"

[ken1burton]

Daedalus.

That “Sorry� was not an apology, And I am not asking you to agree with anything, I am showing you what the Scriptures say and mean.

No Epilepsy, No Parents who pushed, one way or the other. What would be covered in a suggestive mind could mean anything.

You statement of a “Book no one really cares about� might be your feelings towards the Scripture, Millions care and accept the Scriptures as from God.

My Motivation is more of falling in love with God then believing in Him.

I usually use the word Truth for the Concepts I write about.

Who is right? That often has to wait till the time when there is no doubt what is real. But then, does this all add up? is a good indication, For if it does not already, then that can not be right, Can it?

OnceConvinced.

Most believers would agree what the Holy Spirit has the correct answers to questions of God’s word. So the answers a person gives, gives an indication if the Spirit of Truth is at work, or a spirit of error.

Taking the New and Old Testament together, There are contradictions concerning Heaven and hell. But as all Truths are an absolute, With no contradicting truth. Then when it is seen correctly, There are no contradictions.

There are TIME FRAMES, to the day of the Cross when all prophecies are fulfilled. What is true during one time frame, May be different in another, But placed in the correct order, They do not contradict. One time God scatters, One time He gathers, so all is fulfilled. God using keywords to place the prophecies in the correct order.

You will not find Unity of beliefs in Christianity, Which will be ending when Israel sees Jesus is the Messiah in 2029 A.D. God blinded the Christians by Isaiah 29:10/12 when Jesus told them to sleep on, take your rest after He prayed three times in the Garden:

Isaiah 29:10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

Christians can not see the Vision clearly, They for the most part do not seem to even want to. But Israel will see it correctly, Set it in order, Then convert most of mankind. Few holdouts so we do not put the Scriptures on a shelf.

There are future similitudes for what was fulfilled the day of the cross or the Prophecies, 2029 A.D. they will AGAIN look upon Him whom they have pierced, This time through Scripture and see it correctly.

Allow me to explain what “My take� is. Jesus had to fulfill every jot and tittle of the Old Testament prophecies, Which He did. They form the Absolute. God likened the prophecies to lies TILL they were fulfilled, Then they became the Spirit of Truth by being seen in three different pictures of the day of the cross, or doubled twice.

Genesis 41:32 And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.

Like Daniel 9:24's making an end of sin, and bringing in everlasting righteousness. Part of Daniel’s 70 weeks. The 70 weeks is a diversion, Forget them. Every prophecy has to be fulfilled the day of the Cross, Daniel also had a vision of the Evening and Morning which were for many days, In this case the day as 70 weeks, In Isaiah 30:26 the day as a week. In Psalms 90:4 as 2,000 years.

Time is from the Creation story in 3975 B.C. till the Baptism of Jesus in 25 A.D. or 4,000 years, (in the fullness of Time, God sent forth His Son) The day of the Cross is “TIMES� as the different times apply. Then from the Cross in 29 A.D. till 2029 A.D. is the Dividing of time seen in Daniel, and the half a time seen in Revelation Chapter 12.

Jesus is carried by the Spirit into the Wilderness after the Baptism, The Spirit took Jesus to the day of the Cross, Where He is shown the REVELATION of Jesus Christ, Then given 42 months (not counted) and goes back and shows His servants (Disciples) things which must shortly come to pass.

The day of the Cross is as a House built, the name of the House is the WILDERNESS (Whose House have I made a wilderness) The day then made as 7 time periods, seen as 3 pictures, or ten days total (Ye shall have tribulation 10 days) His day made as 7 days, His days likened to Heaven, God stretches out the heavens, Then shortens it back to one day, or the Heavens are rolled together as a scroll.

The Book of Job is showing the day of the Cross, The 7 sons is the day as 7 days, the 3 daughters is the day as 3 pictures, The Wind comes out of the Wilderness and smites the four corners of the House or the first picture as 4 6-hour periods.

Job 42:7 And it was so , that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath .

The day as 3 pictures, 1=Anger, 2=Fury, 3=Wrath, Pictures for the day of the Cross, not attributes of a loving God, When God pours out His Fury, it is looking at the second picture.

Eliphaz is the third picture as 1 24-hour period or 24 Elders, His two friends is the second picture as 2 12-hour periods, or 2 witnesses. Job being the first picture as 4 6-hour periods.

Everything is as lies or unclean till fulfilled, So the day as 7 unclean spirits, as 3 unclean spirits like frogs.

But there is another in Job whom God shows nothing against, Elihu, in chapter 32. He comes up last, He is the words of God all fulfilled, so God has no problem with Him, nor speaks against Him.

I have often heard it said that you can make the Bible say anything you want, No really, Not and have it all fit together. And have no truth contradict another truth. In the correct order, It says what God meant it to say.

So “My Take� is taking what God foretold, and accepting this as facts, There are similitudes, and they have to be seen for what they are, God uses a lot of hints in Scripture to get us to that point.

So when God speaks of Jesus being blind to things, I am going to question what Jesus is seeing to what God foretold in detail:

Isaiah 42:19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD'S servant?
20 Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.
21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

So when the Disciples and Jesus after Calvary speaks of preaching repenting, and need to believe, Then I search and find, it is not needed, and they do not see what God did using Jesus.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

And end of sins happened at Golgotha, Everlasting righteousness was brought in at Golgotha. The Vision and prophecy have a SEAL, So them not seeing this happened is foretold. Jesus is anointed the day of the Cross, Jesus as all sins, So all the others are righteous, Which they had to be to offer the Sacrifice:

Psalms 141:5 Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness: and let him reprove me; it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head: for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities

Jesus was reproved for saying He is the Son of the Blessed, and condemned to death. Words not lawful for a man to speak, Spoken in the third 6-hour period from Sunrise to noon, or spoken during the THIRD HEAVEN.

2-Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

But Jesus did utter words not lawful for a man to speak:

Mark 14:61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
63 Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
64 Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

What you see as taking a whole lot of Scripture and bombarding them at people might be seen differently:

Luke 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

I pour out the Scriptures, And God gives me more to pour out the next time. Many times I have found that I have one shot at sharing the Scriptures, So I best make it count, For many people on earth are never seen or heard from again. I have no desire to offend people, I also have no desire not to share as much as I can with them.

God and Jesus make their abode with us, and their spirit has a way of adding to conversations as new thoughts on things to say keep emerging. You think I should make it shorter, I think God wants it as full as it can get.

No problem with anyone jumping into these threads, after all, it is an open forum, Everyone has opinions, or concepts they can share.

This world has countries which reject God, and Countries which have a large Christian population, I seem to see proof of which way it goes for Children in those different countries. History has already shown it.

Those ROSE colored SON-glasses I use, are Scriptural. Those who died in Egypt, rose with Christ, Those who died in Jerusalem rose with Christ, Those who died in a place called Sharon, Rose with Christ, He is the ROSE OF SHARON:

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

I know for an absolute that all those who have died before Golgotha are with God in Heaven, Now it is we go to God at earthly death with the righteousness of Jesus on us, and we can enter or have a little talk with those who came out of hell for about five months, our choice. So I will keep my ROSE Colored glasses on, They are like bi-focals, Helps me to see a lot clearer.

It is the Old Testament Prophets which need to be looked at. And those end times were preached of, and they had to be fulfilled the day of the Cross and they were, as the Old World ended, and the New World which is seen as the Beginning (old world has no recorded beginning in Scripture) began.

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

I do not give much thought to my Salvation as far as the possibility of losing it, All are saved by Grace, This I know through the Absolute of God’s foretelling what Jesus would accomplish.

This is not from any preachers, But from Scripture. Jack Van Impe and Hal Linsey do not have these concepts for messages. And a messenger does not need integrity as much as to get the message out correctly. You mean to believe what God said would happen in the prophecies is to be Gullible? Then list me as Gullible. For I am so Gullible that I see almost all the prophecies which God showed as fulfilled the day of the Cross, and I am looking for how the ones I have not seen, link up.

Don’t tell those guys they are false prophets, They seem to think you keep making prophecies till you get one right, Not that you list one prophecy in God’s name and it does not come true, You are ESTABLISHED as a False prophet.

But by the Scriptures, they were all False Prophets, as all prophecies were seen as lies or false TILL they were fulfilled, Then it became Truth. And there are no prophecies after the day of the Cross when all were fulfilled, Future similitudes of things fulfilled, So no prophets after Golgotha.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

So the day of the Cross is seen as 3 pictures to establish this as Truth, and in 2029 A.D. Israel will in a future similitude look upon Him whom they have pierced, What was done at Golgotha will be done again by looking at Jesus in Scripture.

My loving and merciful God holds those who died of starvation, and they hunger no more. They are in good hands. This world provides a lot of food, I think it is mankind’s job to see it gets where it is needed.

That blessing was because of being talked against, So let’s not talk against starving children, And as far as blessings for them, Showers of blessings for them. And the Adults in need also.

I have had the Vultures stalk me, Working out in the sun, I saw shadows of turkey vultures overhead upon the ground. When I am done with this body, they can have it.

Maybe you better look again:

John 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

The people were following Jesus to have their physical needs met, Not their spiritual ones.

Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

Jesus is not going out to feed the hungry, cloth the naked, Nor sending the others out for that reason, But to preach. And Jesus saw that the other things were really getting in the way of His real purpose.

Matthew 17:17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.

They are not coming to know God, But because of physical needs. For the WRONG REASONS they are coming to Him.

So prayers today do not work very well, So people are not drawn to God so their prayers will be answered, Believers get hungry and starve also, So having all your needs met does not draw people to God. Daniel might have been saved from the Lions, But tens of thousands were fed to the Lions, So God protecting us does not draw people to God.

God desires people to come out of love for God, not love for what God can do for them. So God kind of keeps out of the providing business, as a means to draw people.


Daedalus.

All will be better, God’s timetable is intact, Israel will see Jesus is the Messiah in 2029 A.D., and it is them who will convert most of mankind to Christ. It is then when most of the problems of this world will be solved. And it will be then when God hears from Heaven and answers prayers.

Ken

[Cathar1950]

I am reminded of this documentary by Dian Keaton about Heaven.
It was fun as theists stated we don't know what Heaven is like and then went on and on describing Heaven.
Metaphors and analogies are not always that helpful and even what an afterlife would be like can be a different issue then Heaven.
Revelation is and should be questionable given the variety of experiences and meanings.

But even if assuming anything about Heaven, why would anyone want to escape given its spender that has been reported or believed?
Is Heaven not really Heaven for some and what would be the reasons someone would want to escape?.

[Homicidal_Cherry53]

But even if assuming anything about Heven, why would anyone want to exscape given its spender that has been reported or believed?
Is Heven not really Heven for some and what would be the reasons someone would want to exscape?.

Firstly, I can tell you that I would be among those wanting to escape. I couldn't stand living in a dictatorship, no matter how benevolent. Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven, better to be free in hell than shackled in paradise.

[Cathar1950]

But even if assuming anything about Heaven, why would anyone want to escape given its spender that has been reported or believed?
Is Heaven not really Heaven for some and what would be the reasons someone would want to escape?.

Firstly, I can tell you that I would be among those wanting to escape. I couldn't stand living in a dictatorship, no matter how benevolent. Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven, better to be free in hell than shackled in paradise.

Some say Satan felt the same way.
Who says it is a dictatorship?
I know, Bible Believers but that seems to be assuming a dictatorship is the best and Heaven. I don't think to much of the idea and it seems if Heaven was a dictatorship it could hardly be Heaven.
At least not to anyone with some sense of identity or experience.
Now there are traditions where Jesus claims we are friends not servants.
Of course some like being friends of dictators and some don't have much of a choice.
Maybe they turn into gods and get there own universe to torment and that is Heaven to them.

[Homicidal_Cherry53]

But even if assuming anything about Heaven, why would anyone want to escape given its spender that has been reported or believed?
Is Heaven not really Heaven for some and what would be the reasons someone would want to escape?.

Firstly, I can tell you that I would be among those wanting to escape. I couldn't stand living in a dictatorship, no matter how benevolent. Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven, better to be free in hell than shackled in paradise.

Some say Satan felt the same way.
Who says it is a dictatorship?
I know, Bible Believers but that seems to be assuming a dictatorship is the best and Heaven. I don't think to much of the idea and it seems if Heaven was a dictatorship it could hardly be Heaven.
At least not to anyone with some sense of identity or experience.
Now there are traditions where Jesus claims we are friends not servants.
Of course some like being friends of dictators and some don't have much of a choice.
Maybe they turn into gods and get there own universe to torment and that is Heaven to them.

The Bible doesn't refer to it as the Kingdom of Heaven because a parliament is making all the decisions.

Of course, I realize that there are conceptions of Heaven beyond the Christian one, but I assumed that since we were on a board focusing specifically on Christians, we were limiting it to the Christian conception of Heaven. In Christianity, there is no way around the fact that God is portrayed as an all-knowing being with absolute power. I doubt he would allow anyone but himself to control Heaven.

[OnceConvinced]

Ken, for many years I have been seeing eschatologists come up with all manner of theories and calculations that the end is near and I used to do that myself. But I soon found that it was all nonsense. What makes you think your calculations are any more accurate than the Hal Lindseys of this world (or whoever those other guys were who came up with mathmatical calculations - can't remember their names, don't care about them any more).

You can't take any of it seriously, you just can't. No matter how impressive it all seems. You'll find out in 20 years from now and feel rather silly about all the stuff you've just posted.

I have often heard it said that you can make the Bible say anything you want, No really, Not and have it all fit together. And have no truth contradict another truth. In the correct order, It says what God meant it to say.

No matter what you claim Ken, I don't believe at all that you have it all fitted together. Anyone who claims that, has not studied the bible very thoroughly. They've only picked and chosen what they want to study.

Isaiah 42:19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD'S servant?
20 Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.
21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

So when the Disciples and Jesus after Calvary speaks of preaching repenting, and need to believe, Then I search and find, it is not needed, and they do not see what God did using Jesus.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

And end of sins happened at Golgotha, Everlasting righteousness was brought in at Golgotha. The Vision and prophecy have a SEAL, So them not seeing this happened is foretold. Jesus is anointed the day of the Cross, Jesus as all sins, So all the others are righteous, Which they had to be to offer the Sacrifice:

Psalms 141:5 Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness: and let him reprove me; it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head: for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities

Jesus was reproved for saying He is the Son of the Blessed, and condemned to death. Words not lawful for a man to speak, Spoken in the third 6-hour period from Sunrise to noon, or spoken during the THIRD HEAVEN.

2-Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

But Jesus did utter words not lawful for a man to speak:

Mark 14:61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
63 Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
64 Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

Ken, you claim that it is your job to preach the gospel. Who do you want to preach the gospel to? Unbelievers or the choir. By bombarding us with scriptures like this, the only people who are going to take you seriously are other Christians. This sort of thing is totally ineffective when it comes to people who don't take the bible seriously. You may think the bible is authoritive, however people like myself and Daedelus do not. It ain't gonna work, you need to realise that. Try just sticking with logic and reasoning.

What you see as taking a whole lot of Scripture and bombarding them at people might be seen differently:

Luke 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Great if you're preaching to the choir, but hardly effective when preaching to those who don't take your bible as the word of God. I ask again, who are you trying to preach to? Unbelievers or other Christians?

As far as I'm concerned, I spent many many years studying the bible, so I know what it says. You don't need to use all those scriptures to back up your points. Just make your point. I am not interested in reading all these scriptures as I've wasted enough years of my life studying the bible and reading scriptures. I do know what it says.

I know for an absolute that all those who have died before Golgotha are with God in Heaven,

OK, now I'm going to ask for scriptures. (I will do that if I see something I believe to not be biblical). Please prove this through scripture. Seeing as you have never been dead and been to these places, the only way you can have any idea about this is through the bible. So please support your claim.

Now it is we go to God at earthly death with the righteousness of Jesus on us, and we can enter or have a little talk with those who came out of hell for about five months, our choice. So I will keep my ROSE Colored glasses on, They are like bi-focals, Helps me to see a lot clearer.

Talk to people who have come out of hell? What the hell are you talking about?

Those glasses of yours prevent you from seeing anything out side of your tunnel vision. They are not a good thing. They keep your mind closed to other truths out there. I found that out myself.

This is not from any preachers, But from Scripture. Jack Van Impe and Hal Linsey do not have these concepts for messages.

Maybe not, but they still tried to predict the end times and got it wrong.

And a messenger does not need integrity as much as to get the message out correctly. You mean to believe what God said would happen in the prophecies is to be Gullible? Then list me as Gullible. For I am so Gullible that I see almost all the prophecies which God showed as fulfilled the day of the Cross, and I am looking for how the ones I have not seen, link up.

So do you mean to tell me you came up with all that stuff yourself? You're not going by what other people have told you? If so, then you are being gullible, just like the people who believed guys like Jack Van Impe and Hal Linsey who believed they got their information from the bible. Nobody has been right about this sort of stuff. So yes, it is gullible to believe it.

Don’t tell those guys they are false prophets, They seem to think you keep making prophecies till you get one right, Not that you list one prophecy in God’s name and it does not come true, You are ESTABLISHED as a False prophet.

Exactly. Those guys made prophecies those things did not happen. So when the year 2029 comes, you too will be exposed as a false prophet. I don't personally think I'll take my chances believing your prophesies. Those guys were very respected in Christian circles at one time, but I don't recognise you as an authority.

My loving and merciful God holds those who died of starvation, and they hunger no more. They are in good hands. This world provides a lot of food, I think it is mankind’s job to see it gets where it is needed.

So then that makes it ok? I guess it was ok that that girl was kept as her father's sex slave for 25 years in his cellar? I suppose that it's ok that another woman had to spend 7 years in a crate under some guy's bed? It's all perfectly acceptable and it's quite ok that God stood by and did nothing, even though he could have done something?

That blessing was because of being talked against, So let’s not talk against starving children, And as far as blessings for them, Showers of blessings for them. And the Adults in need also.

I'm sure they won't be holding their breath for those blessings to come.

I have had the Vultures stalk me, Working out in the sun, I saw shadows of turkey vultures overhead upon the ground. When I am done with this body, they can have it.

You would joke when things like this are happening?



Perhaps you'd like to tell her everything is alright and soon she will be in the hands of God?

John 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

The people were following Jesus to have their physical needs met, Not their spiritual ones.

Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

Jesus is not going out to feed the hungry, cloth the naked, Nor sending the others out for that reason, But to preach. And Jesus saw that the other things were really getting in the way of His real purpose.

Do I have to start quoting other scriptures like how Jesus will condemn you to hell for not clothing the poor, or feeding the hungry?

Matthew 25:31-46

Last few verses:
"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
......................
This lot of scriptures clearly contradicts what you are saying. Physical needs are just as important as spiritual needs.

So prayers today do not work very well, So people are not drawn to God so their prayers will be answered, Believers get hungry and starve also, So having all your needs met does not draw people to God. Daniel might have been saved from the Lions, But tens of thousands were fed to the Lions, So God protecting us does not draw people to God.

So to hell with them then. Let those little kids starve then. Feeding them is not going to bring them closer to God. Is that what Jesus would think? Jesus spent his life meeting physical needs (as well as spiritual needs) and huge numbers of people came to believe in him because of it.

Some on Ken! Jesus himself said miracles are valuable for faith. I'll have to search for the scripture, but I don't have time right now.