It's a cracker!

[daedalus 2.0]

IT'S A FRACKIN’ CRACKER!
Category: Religion • Stupidity
Posted on: July 8, 2008 8:05 PM, by PZ Myers

There are days when it is agony to read the news, because people are so goddamned stupid. Petty and stupid. Hateful and stupid. Just plain stupid. And nothing makes them stupider than religion.

Here's a story that will destroy your hopes for a reasonable humanity.

Webster Cook says he smuggled a Eucharist, a small bread wafer that to Catholics symbolic of the Body of Christ after a priest blesses it, out of mass, didn't eat it as he was supposed to do, but instead walked with it.
This isn't the stupid part yet. He walked off with a cracker that was put in his mouth, and people in the church fought with him to get it back. It is just a cracker!

Catholics worldwide became furious.

Would you believe this isn't hyperbole? People around the world are actually extremely angry about this — Webster Cook has been sent death threats over his cracker. Those are just kooks, you might say, but here is the considered, measured response of the local diocese:

"We don't know 100% what Mr. Cooks motivation was," said Susan Fani a spokesperson with the local Catholic diocese. "However, if anything were to qualify as a hate crime, to us this seems like this might be it."

We just expect the University to take this seriously," she added "To send a message to not just Mr. Cook but the whole community that this kind of really complete sacrilege will not be tolerated.".

Wait, what? Holding a cracker hostage is now a hate crime? The murder of Matthew Shephard was a hate crime. The murder of James Byrd Jr. was a hate crime. This is a goddamned cracker. Can you possibly diminish the abuse of real human beings any further?

Well, you could have a priest compare this event to a kidnapping.

"It is hurtful," said Father Migeul Gonzalez with the Diocese. "Imagine if they kidnapped somebody and you make a plea for that individual to please return that loved one to the family."

........
So, what to do. I have an idea. Can anyone out there score me some consecrated communion wafers? There's no way I can personally get them — my local churches have stakes prepared for me, I'm sure — but if any of you would be willing to do what it takes to get me some, or even one, and mail it to me, I'll show you sacrilege, gladly, and with much fanfare. I won't be tempted to hold it hostage (no, not even if I have a choice between returning the Eucharist and watching Bill Donohue kick the pope in the balls, which would apparently be a more humane act than desecrating a goddamned cracker), but will instead treat it with profound disrespect and heinous cracker abuse, all photographed and presented here on the web. I shall do so joyfully and with laughter in my heart. If you can smuggle some out from under the armed guards and grim nuns hovering over your local communion ceremony, just write to me and I'll send you my home address.

Just wait. Now there'll be a team of Jesuits assigned to rifle through my mail every day.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008 ... racker.php

'Body Of Christ" Returned To Church After Student Receives Email Threats

POSTED: 12:47 am EDT July 7, 2008
UPDATED: 8:37 am EDT July 9, 2008

Orange County, FL -- One week after a University of Central Florida student snatched something sacred from church, armed UCF police officers stood guard during Sunday Mass to protect what Catholics call "The Body of Christ."

Minutes before the Mass began, Student Senator Webster Cook returned the Holy Eucharist he was holding hostage in a Ziploc bag ever since smuggling the blessed wafer of bread out of the Catholic Mass service Sunday June 29.

Carol Brinati with the Diocese of Orlando said the Catholic community was "concerned about the possible desecration of the Eucharist," and pleaded for its safe return.

Cook, who was raised Catholic, said he decided to bring the Eucharist home after a church leader tried to physically pry it from his hand. Cook broke Church rules by failing to consume it immediately during communion and then removing it from his mouth once seated.

Cook said he just wanted to show the Eucharist to a friend he brought with questions about Catholicism before consuming it. But outraged Catholics across the globe didn’t believe him and suspected he intended all along to steal the Eucharist and bloggers sent out e-mail messages damning him to Hell.

"I am returning the Eucharist to you in response to the e-mails I have received from Catholics in the UCF community," Cook wrote in a letter to the church. "I still want the community to understand that the use physical force is wrong, especially when based on assumptions. However, I feel it is unnecessary to cause pain for those who are not at fault in this situation."

Cook said some threatened to break into his dorm room to rescue the Eucharist. Brinati said the Diocese of Orlando didn't condone those threats, but was happy Cook had a change of heart and returned it.

"We've been praying about that," she said.

...........

http://www.wftv.com/news/16806050/detail.html



I wonder if his "change of heart" had anything to do with the death threats and threats to break into his dorm more than the prayers? There have now been multiple calls on many atheist sites to take as many concecrated wafers as possible.

The idea is to reconstruct a Jesus voodoo doll with the wafers, or, use them in some other sacrilidgeous use.

I implore all atheists who have a chance - kidnap a cracker and take home a piece of Jesus for your very own!

Transubstantiation (in Latin, transsubstantiatio) is the change of the substance of bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ occurring in the Eucharist according to the teaching of some Christian Churches, including the Roman Catholic Church, while all that is accessible to the senses remain as before. In Greek it is called μετουσίωσις (see Metousiosis).

wiki




Ahhhhh.... Religion at its best!

[daedalus 2.0]

He was given it to eat and then crap out later.

1. It was given for his use.
2. When you give someone something out of charity, you don't tell them what to do with it even if you have a preference. If I give a homeless guy $10, I don't get upset when he spends it on booze - I gave it. The moment it transfered ownership the giver lacks the authority to determine the fate of the thing. It's a huge stretch to claim the CC owns the wafer after it hands it to you.
3. While the rules of this private organization may encourage assault, it is still not legal. This organization is held under the same laws as every other company. Goldman-Sachs can't hand a visitor a donut and then restrain them if they don't eat it. Even if it was written in their Employee Handbook. It's illegal.
4. If it is not illegal, then the church is getting biased treatment from the State - which is not Constitutional.

I'd be interested to see how the law see this - after all, I consider the Law of Man to take precedent.

Columbia Encyclopedia: false imprisonment,
complete restraint upon a person's liberty of movement without legal justification. Actual physical contact is not necessary; a show of authority or a threat of force is sufficient. The person falsely imprisoned may sue the offender for damages. The suit would be brought against officials improperly issuing warrants for arrest and against private persons for any illegal total restraint of liberty. Release from such illegal restraint may be had through a habeas corpus proceeding. See kidnapping.

[nygreenguy]

He was given it to eat and then crap out later.

1. It was given for his use.

conditionally, thats the thing.

2. When you give someone something out of charity, you don't tell them what to do with it even if you have a preference.

Like I said before, its a conditional gift.

[micatala]

IT'S A FRACKIN’ CRACKER!
Category: Religion • Stupidity
Posted on: July 8, 2008 8:05 PM, by PZ Myers

There are days when it is agony to read the news, because people are so goddamned stupid. Petty and stupid. Hateful and stupid. Just plain stupid. And nothing makes them stupider than religion.

Here's a story that will destroy your hopes for a reasonable humanity.

Webster Cook says he smuggled a Eucharist, a small bread wafer that to Catholics symbolic of the Body of Christ after a priest blesses it, out of mass, didn't eat it as he was supposed to do, but instead walked with it.
This isn't the stupid part yet. He walked off with a cracker that was put in his mouth, and people in the church fought with him to get it back. It is just a cracker!

Catholics worldwide became furious.

Would you believe this isn't hyperbole? People around the world are actually extremely angry about this — Webster Cook has been sent death threats over his cracker. Those are just kooks, you might say, but here is the considered, measured response of the local diocese:

"We don't know 100% what Mr. Cooks motivation was," said Susan Fani a spokesperson with the local Catholic diocese. "However, if anything were to qualify as a hate crime, to us this seems like this might be it."

We just expect the University to take this seriously," she added "To send a message to not just Mr. Cook but the whole community that this kind of really complete sacrilege will not be tolerated.".

Wait, what? Holding a cracker hostage is now a hate crime? The murder of Matthew Shephard was a hate crime. The murder of James Byrd Jr. was a hate crime. This is a goddamned cracker. Can you possibly diminish the abuse of real human beings any further?

Well, you could have a priest compare this event to a kidnapping.

"It is hurtful," said Father Migeul Gonzalez with the Diocese. "Imagine if they kidnapped somebody and you make a plea for that individual to please return that loved one to the family."

........
So, what to do. I have an idea. Can anyone out there score me some consecrated communion wafers? There's no way I can personally get them — my local churches have stakes prepared for me, I'm sure — but if any of you would be willing to do what it takes to get me some, or even one, and mail it to me, I'll show you sacrilege, gladly, and with much fanfare. I won't be tempted to hold it hostage (no, not even if I have a choice between returning the Eucharist and watching Bill Donohue kick the pope in the balls, which would apparently be a more humane act than desecrating a goddamned cracker), but will instead treat it with profound disrespect and heinous cracker abuse, all photographed and presented here on the web. I shall do so joyfully and with laughter in my heart. If you can smuggle some out from under the armed guards and grim nuns hovering over your local communion ceremony, just write to me and I'll send you my home address.

Just wait. Now there'll be a team of Jesuits assigned to rifle through my mail every day.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008 ... racker.php

'Body Of Christ" Returned To Church After Student Receives Email Threats

POSTED: 12:47 am EDT July 7, 2008
UPDATED: 8:37 am EDT July 9, 2008

Orange County, FL -- One week after a University of Central Florida student snatched something sacred from church, armed UCF police officers stood guard during Sunday Mass to protect what Catholics call "The Body of Christ."

Minutes before the Mass began, Student Senator Webster Cook returned the Holy Eucharist he was holding hostage in a Ziploc bag ever since smuggling the blessed wafer of bread out of the Catholic Mass service Sunday June 29.

Carol Brinati with the Diocese of Orlando said the Catholic community was "concerned about the possible desecration of the Eucharist," and pleaded for its safe return.

Cook, who was raised Catholic, said he decided to bring the Eucharist home after a church leader tried to physically pry it from his hand. Cook broke Church rules by failing to consume it immediately during communion and then removing it from his mouth once seated.

Cook said he just wanted to show the Eucharist to a friend he brought with questions about Catholicism before consuming it. But outraged Catholics across the globe didn’t believe him and suspected he intended all along to steal the Eucharist and bloggers sent out e-mail messages damning him to Hell.

"I am returning the Eucharist to you in response to the e-mails I have received from Catholics in the UCF community," Cook wrote in a letter to the church. "I still want the community to understand that the use physical force is wrong, especially when based on assumptions. However, I feel it is unnecessary to cause pain for those who are not at fault in this situation."

Cook said some threatened to break into his dorm room to rescue the Eucharist. Brinati said the Diocese of Orlando didn't condone those threats, but was happy Cook had a change of heart and returned it.

"We've been praying about that," she said.

...........

http://www.wftv.com/news/16806050/detail.html



I wonder if his "change of heart" had anything to do with the death threats and threats to break into his dorm more than the prayers? There have now been multiple calls on many atheist sites to take as many concecrated wafers as possible.

The idea is to reconstruct a Jesus voodoo doll with the wafers, or, use them in some other sacrilidgeous use.

I implore all atheists who have a chance - kidnap a cracker and take home a piece of Jesus for your very own!

Transubstantiation (in Latin, transsubstantiatio) is the change of the substance of bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ occurring in the Eucharist according to the teaching of some Christian Churches, including the Roman Catholic Church, while all that is accessible to the senses remain as before. In Greek it is called μετουσίωσις (see Metousiosis).

wiki




Ahhhhh.... Religion at its best!

Well, I originally voted 'ignorance' before reading the thread, but now would have to agree with the poster that commented on the 'piss poor choices.'


Did the 'local Catholic response' go over the top? I would say perhaps this is so.

However, I would also say PZ Myers blog response was a bit over the top.

What constructive purpose is served in mocking something that a group of people finds 'of value' or 'sacred' just because one does not share their values?



Suppose, for example, someone dug up a mass grave of Auschwitz victims, took home some of the bones, and made them into kitchen utensils. Would you fault people of Jewish descent for going ballistic? After all, they're nothing more than a bunch of mostly calcium and other chemicals. Would you mock Jews who insisted the bones be returned to their original resting place?



I can understand the notion that 'it's just a cracker.' However, pretending that this cracker doesn't have or insisting it should not have some more special meaning to others is essentially to say that their views and their freedom to hold them is of less instrinsic value than yours.

[Beto]

I can understand the notion that 'it's just a cracker.' However, pretending that this cracker doesn't have or insisting it should not have some more special meaning to others is essentially to say that their views and their freedom to hold them is of less instrinsic value than yours.

I don't think the issue is with any special meaning attributed to the cracker. It's with claims of the cracker's "transubstantiation" "beyond human comprehension", and how these concepts are indoctrinated on children and gullible people that later can't tell the difference between "transubstantiation" and some other dangerous fundamental ideologies. A person that believes in "transubstantiation" lacks the logical foundation to reject other ideologies that, to the people holding them, are also "beyond human comprehension", and that are detrimental to a tolerant and healthy society.

[daedalus 2.0]

He was given it to eat and then crap out later.

1. It was given for his use.

conditionally, thats the thing.

2. When you give someone something out of charity, you don't tell them what to do with it even if you have a preference.

Like I said before, its a conditional gift.

But is it legal to physically restrain someone (or, as the law states, even suggest the exit is restricted)?

The law seems to say "no".

Can we find any parallel in the real world? Is this stealing? If so, then the CC has to make the case and not simply declare it in its internal memoes.

Did this guy sign a waver when he entered the Church?

I am looking at this at a legal angle.

If this is legal, it sets a dangerous precedent.

[micatala]

He was given it to eat and then crap out later.

1. It was given for his use.

conditionally, thats the thing.

2. When you give someone something out of charity, you don't tell them what to do with it even if you have a preference.

Like I said before, its a conditional gift.

But is it legal to physically restrain someone (or, as the law states, even suggest the exit is restricted)?

The law seems to say "no".

Can we find any parallel in the real world? Is this stealing? If so, then the CC has to make the case and not simply declare it in its internal memoes.

Did this guy sign a waver when he entered the Church?

I am looking at this at a legal angle.

If this is legal, it sets a dangerous precedent.

I would agree, at least based on my limited legal knowledge, trying to restrain Mr. Cook and 'reclaim' the wafer does not seem justified.

The Catholics could have made clear their viewpoint without the 'strong arm' tactics, and it would have been more appropriate, and of course not left the negative impression it has in some circles.

A little more mutual respect all around would go along way.

[daedalus 2.0]

BTW, I am a member of the clergy - I am a licensed Holy Man. I am going to start consecrating crackers for my tea. I have the power.

Anyone want some consecrated bread to dip in their beer, or some crackers to feed the pidgeons?




Just hold up your cracker to the monitor:





By the power of Grayskull, I consecrate your cracker! Jesus come into this cracker!





There, you now have a consecrated cracker. Enjoy.


(I really am a priest. I can legally marry people, baptize and do other religious ceremonies)