Are Christian rights threatened by secularism?

[McCulloch]

Also, just so long you don't impose your unbelief on my religious rights!
And I do have religious rights!
And I am quite able to defend them!

Question for debate: Which rights of Christians are being threatened in western democracies?

[Cephus]

Absolutely none, so long as you limit your interpretation of "rights" to things they can hold themselves. Unfortunately, many Christians seem to think it's their "right" to shove their religion down everyone else's throats.

They're wrong. Their right to swing their theology ends at the other person's nose.

[Goat]

Also, just so long you don't impose your unbelief on my religious rights!
And I do have religious rights!
And I am quite able to defend them!

Question for debate: Which rights of Christians are being threatened in western democracies?

The right to use government resources to try to convert those Catholics, Jews and Mormons. SANTA FE INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT v. DOE

[Furrowed Brow]

Here in the UK I'd say these three are being eroded if not now gone.

The right not to reject same sex relationships.
The right to wear religious symbolic artefacts e.g. crucifix.
The right to Sunday off work.

For example the law says you do not have to work Sundays, but in practice this freedom is being eroded. Right now my union is in pay talks with the bosses. It looks like we are about to sell our right not to work Sundays.

If you stand up in public and say, or write in any publication that homosexuality is wrong, if the police receive a complaint it is likely you will receive a visit from them and a rebuke.

[McCulloch]

Here in the UK I'd say these three are being eroded if not now gone.

The right not to reject same sex relationships.
The right to wear religious symbolic artifacts e.g. crucifix.
The right to Sunday off work.

For example the law says you do not have to work Sundays, but in practice this freedom is being eroded. Right now my union is in pay talks with the bosses. It looks like we are about to sell our right not to work Sundays.

If you stand up in public and say, or write in any publication that homosexuality is wrong, if the police receive a complaint it is likely you will receive a visit from them and a rebuke.

Are these rights?

Everyone has the right to reject same sex relationships. Don't have one if you don't approve.

[r~]

Also, just so long you don't impose your unbelief on my religious rights!
And I do have religious rights!
And I am quite able to defend them!

Question for debate: Which rights of Christians are being threatened in western democracies?

In truth, it is usually Christians In Name Only (like you know who) that tend threaten the rights of all (Christian and secular alike) in western society.

Which rights of Christians are being threatened in western democracies?

1) The right to freely exercise religion. My religion says to forgive all sins; to not judge and condemn sin as crime. This also happens to mean that all have an equal and inalienable right to pursue their happiness in a peaceful and well-regulated manner; no matter the sin. Yet vice laws still persecute the sins of Christians as though they were crime.

9) As above, laws are regularly construed to deny liberty to Christian sinners – even to the liberty of fighting and dying for your country.

I am
ItS
r~

[Furrowed Brow]

Everyone has the right to reject same sex relationships. Don't have one if you don't approve.

True. But don’t approvingly put in print or preach

[center]Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." [/center]

or do anything in public that can be interpreted as a public display of belief in this tenet. If someone makes a complaint of homophobia against you expect a knock at the door from the police. To be clear I’m not fighting for Christian rights here. However there is a secular “moral” intolerance at play I feel, and this morality is at odds with certain flavours of Christian belief. For these flavours their place in secular public life is diminishing. The direction is towards eradication. So the right under threat is to interpret scripture in the way your religion may call you and teach or spread your belief system to anyone else.

It is also increasingly difficult for certain Christians to work in public jobs. As evidenced by the marriage registrar sacked for refusing gay marriages. Link The process is ongoing and is being fought out but the Christian opt out is under threat. Again the end point of the secular zeitgeist here in the UK is eradication of the opposition.

[McCulloch]

It is also increasingly difficult for certain Christians to work in public jobs. As evidenced by the marriage registrar sacked for refusing gay marriages.

Yes and it is difficult for Jehovah's Witnesses to have jobs at the Blood Bank. That is not an infringement on their rights. If your religion stands against spiritual mysogenation, would your rights be threatened by mixed spiritual marriages? Should the Muslim checkout clerk be exempt from scanning my can of pork and beans?

[Furrowed Brow]

Yes and it is difficult for Jehovah's Witnesses to have jobs at the Blood Bank.

True.

That is not an infringement on their rights. If your religion stands against spiritual mysogenation, would your rights be threatened by mixed spiritual marriages? Should the Muslim checkout clerk be exempt from scanning my can of pork and beans?

But the point is society is on the move. A few years ago the marriage registrar would not have been sacked because there was no such thing as gay marriage. Go back a few more years and her disdain for gay couples would not be rebuked. A few more years again and most people would agree with her. As secular society moves in one direction the freedom of theists of a certain hue to move and hold discourse within public space and life without fear of prosecution is shrinking. The direction we are taking is that in a few more years she will not be sacked. She will face prosecution. In principle she could probably face prosecution now if someone bothered to press that button.

Pork and beans? Well I found this example concerning a Muslim taxi driver and a dog Link. He refused to take a blind dog in his taxi for stated religious reasons. He was foundnd guilty and fined. The law he was prosecuted under was enacted in 2003. So presumably before 2003 his actions were legitimate. Though maybe they would have got him on another law.

But my serious point was this. Secular "morality" as practiced by those who govern us here in the UK is intolerant of certain ideologies. Specifically those of a Christian fundamentalist nature when it comes to questions of gender and sexuality. It is not a case of sexual equality just trumping religious belief, the movement towards sexual equality demands certain religoius beliefs be stamped out.

It has not happened yet but on the path we are following I'm am awaiting the day children are removed from Christian fundamentalist by social services on the grounds of their homophobic beliefs. We are not there yet. I give it ten years.

[steen]

But the point is society is on the move. A few years ago the marriage registrar would not have been sacked because there was no such thing as gay marriage. Go back a few more years and her disdain for gay couples would not be rebuked. A few more years again and most people would agree with her.

Exactly as was the case with slavery, mixed marriages etc. The fall of bigotry should be CELEBRATED.

...

Pork and beans? Well I found this example concerning a Muslim taxi driver and a dog Link. He refused to take a blind dog in his taxi for stated religious reasons. He was foundnd guilty and fined. The law he was prosecuted under was enacted in 2003. So presumably before 2003 his actions were legitimate. Though maybe they would have got him on another law.

If you sign on to a job, you are expected to be able to fulfill all aspects of that job. otherwise, don't sign up for that job.

But my serious point was this. Secular "morality" as practiced by those who govern us here in the UK is intolerant of certain ideologies. Specifically those of a Christian fundamentalist nature when it comes to questions of gender and sexuality. It is not a case of sexual equality just trumping religious belief, the movement towards sexual equality demands certain religoius beliefs be stamped out.

Rather, they are "intolerant" of bigotry.

It has not happened yet but on the path we are following I'm am awaiting the day children are removed from Christian fundamentalist by social services on the grounds of their homophobic beliefs. We are not there yet. I give it ten years.

Ah, scare mongering. Are kids being removed from homes of racists, f.ex?