I will start off by saying I am not religious, and while I don't deny the possibility of a creator, I can't say I rationally or logically accept religion to be true. Regardless I would like for people to give their opinion on this interesting question.
In the Old Testament, Daniel 7:9 states;
"His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool"
Now most bibles vary on what exactly this above passage states, but almost all Old Testaments are nearly identical with a slight change of wording.
Onward then, Revelation 1:14 states;
"His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow;"
Now again, different bible versions once again vary, some instead of 'like snow' say 'as white as snow,' but again they are almost identical aside from some minor wording.
So then, the Old Testament more or less seems to be describing the 'hair' of His head as wooly, in other words arguing that Jesus was Black. Many groups such as the black hebrew israelites (cult) claim that this proves Jesus was indeed black. Furthermore many or most black christians who are normal people also believe this to be true. Personally if Jesus did exist, I don't care whether he was black or not. If so then that's great, but why is there such a significant difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament for what these passages say? The New Testament implies nothing about a hair type; but rather that the 'wool' or white description of his hair refers to its pureness and not the texture or color correct? Perhaps this is the same for the Old Testament, that the wool description simply means pureness and not a literal hair type.
Anyhow, in my opinion if Jesus did exist then I believe he was of Middle Eastern or semitic descent, a semite. Surely not European Caucasian, Black African, or Asian? Perhaps only if God himself supernaturally chose for the appearance of Jesus to be one of those ways could it be true. But I highly doubt that.
Question about Jesus for Christians
Moderator: Moderators
Post #21
1) Each hour research based on testing of theoris is published adding to the sum of human knowledge. Faith has never contributed to human knowledge. This hold back progress.Quixotic wrote:
Believing in god, in anything on faith, not evidence holds back science and progress, testing faith is an oxymoron. If you test something it is not faith. It is science.
Of course it is science, testing faith is an oxymoron and I think we both believe that and established that from the beginning, if you recall. Holding back science and progress? Based on what EVIDENCE? Shocked I don't see it happening, and I enjoy watching for new things coming out to better society and humankind. Present what you think is wrong here. Come on, stop dancing around the topic. You want to be logical about it? Then do it. My biology teacher can give better arguments and actually have a smart conversation better then you. Present your evidence, not your own biased talk. Be scientific about it. Question is, do you even have evidence? Think
2) Blasphemy and heresy against the church were punishable by torture and death until the end of the 16th century, simply question the authority of this dogma resulted in horrible punishments. This held back progress.
3) Science actually tests its theories, faith does not, it tries to enforce them. This hold back progress.
4) Faith never got us anywhere. No progress has ever been made on faith. science can cure all kinds of diseases and get us to the moon.
5) Where sicence is oppressed even today by faith no progress is made.
6) Science encourages questioning and change, faith does the oposite. This hold us back from progress.
so on so forth.
Post #22
I congratulate you now that you are finally presenting something. I am very happy for you. But there are a couple of problems here:
1) You are grouping all people together of the Christian faith as if they believe the same thing about science and faith. You are wrong for doing this. How about if I clumped all atheists together and called them ignorant? I don’t do that. People just have to open their minds and accept the fact that they are not like others and people are not all the same. This shows a lack of diversity on your part and understanding that people are different. Even my biology teacher understands this. Please understand that not everyone believes the same way. This also shows a bias in your reasoning, get rid of it. Try to use the words ‘most’ or ‘some’.
2) Faith is a personal matter! For some, myself included believe this. Unfortunately not everyone agrees with this, even some Christians.
Although they might, they do feel it is their duty to force their own faith on others, as do some atheists feel it is their duty to force their own way of thought upon others. Once again, you are acting like these certain people of the Christian faith. Please separate yourself in this sense. Your arguments will be more convincing.
3) Human Nature plays a part in everything a person does and believes! You haven’t shown that in your arguments. In Human Nature there is jealousy, hatred, wanting to make others like you, or even wanting to make your self like others!
People have a tendency to use things at their disposal to try to control others, make sure that in your hatred for the Christian faith you do not fall into this, it is dangerous.
Of course they were wrong for doing this!!! But it was the Catholic Church that did this, not Christianity itself, and I have nothing against them myself. It was the people of the time. Do you find that happening in this day? Do you see scientists being hanged in the streets? In this day of age it is more about idea against idea. Although in some other countries people are being killed for their Christian faith. Killing is wrong! No matter if you are a Christian, Muslim, Atheist, whatever. You should never be killed for your belief in something. What they did went against the teachings of Christianity. If you have studied Christian teachings, you would have seen this.
It was also fear that they might have been wrong for what they believe and most important of all, they didn’t want to lose power that they had. The fear of losing power can cause people to do strange things, it doesn’t matter if it is people who believe in a god or not. Personally, I myself am one to go against the grain and to challenge the concept that we have of doctrines taught in the church. Refer back to #s 1, 2, and 3.
So, does faith have any type of theories? I mean you mentioned it. What do you think are some?
1) You are grouping all people together of the Christian faith as if they believe the same thing about science and faith. You are wrong for doing this. How about if I clumped all atheists together and called them ignorant? I don’t do that. People just have to open their minds and accept the fact that they are not like others and people are not all the same. This shows a lack of diversity on your part and understanding that people are different. Even my biology teacher understands this. Please understand that not everyone believes the same way. This also shows a bias in your reasoning, get rid of it. Try to use the words ‘most’ or ‘some’.
2) Faith is a personal matter! For some, myself included believe this. Unfortunately not everyone agrees with this, even some Christians.
Although they might, they do feel it is their duty to force their own faith on others, as do some atheists feel it is their duty to force their own way of thought upon others. Once again, you are acting like these certain people of the Christian faith. Please separate yourself in this sense. Your arguments will be more convincing.
3) Human Nature plays a part in everything a person does and believes! You haven’t shown that in your arguments. In Human Nature there is jealousy, hatred, wanting to make others like you, or even wanting to make your self like others!
People have a tendency to use things at their disposal to try to control others, make sure that in your hatred for the Christian faith you do not fall into this, it is dangerous.
I am a little concerned that you are not sure what your favorite phrase means, “This holds back progress”. Any thing that gives some one a problem is really a chance to overcome it and understand where they need to change and make progress in their own humanity. Some people of faith as well as science are doing this. As far as faith never contributing, it has helped mankind, it believes in treating others like you want to be treated, feeding the poor, defending the helpless, loving your enemy, “so on and so forth”. Please refer back to #s 1 and 3 at the top.1) Each hour research based on testing of theories is published adding to the sum of human knowledge. Faith has never contributed to human knowledge. This holds back progress.
Please tell me you didn’t pull out the history card? That gets old.2) Blasphemy and heresy against the church were punishable by torture and death until the end of the 16th century, simply question the authority of this dogma resulted in horrible punishments. This held back progress.
Of course they were wrong for doing this!!! But it was the Catholic Church that did this, not Christianity itself, and I have nothing against them myself. It was the people of the time. Do you find that happening in this day? Do you see scientists being hanged in the streets? In this day of age it is more about idea against idea. Although in some other countries people are being killed for their Christian faith. Killing is wrong! No matter if you are a Christian, Muslim, Atheist, whatever. You should never be killed for your belief in something. What they did went against the teachings of Christianity. If you have studied Christian teachings, you would have seen this.
It was also fear that they might have been wrong for what they believe and most important of all, they didn’t want to lose power that they had. The fear of losing power can cause people to do strange things, it doesn’t matter if it is people who believe in a god or not. Personally, I myself am one to go against the grain and to challenge the concept that we have of doctrines taught in the church. Refer back to #s 1, 2, and 3.
Faith and science deal with two different aspects of Humanity. Faith wants to discover the meaning of life and science wants to discover what the causes of life are. I have seen scientists search for meaning in their own work! My biology teacher, once again, is also the type to continue to question and is also uncertain himself about the concept of faith and god. I’m cool with this, I mean, who doesn’t, right? I know I have.3) Science actually tests its theories, faith does not. It tries to enforce them. This holds back progress.
So, does faith have any type of theories? I mean you mentioned it. What do you think are some?
Where do you get your ideas about faith? Have you done research or are you only presenting your own biased view of Christianity? You really should.4) Faith never got us anywhere. No progress has ever been made on faith. Science can cure all kinds of diseases and get us to the moon.
Where does faith “oppress” science? Give some examples.5) Where science is oppressed even today by faith no progress is made.
I really beg to differ on this. This really shows that you have not studied, or even found, the scriptures in the Bible that Christians overlook. This does not help your argument. I am not sure even if you would anything up if they were given to you.6) Science encourages questioning and change, faith does the opposite. This holds us back from progress.
