The US Constitution and the Bible

[McCulloch]

It has been asserted here and elsewhere that the Bible was a source for many of the principles and ideas enshrined in the US Constitution. I have read both and frankly I don't see the connection.

Question for debate: Was the Bible a source of inspiration, ideas or principles that guided the writers of the US Constitution? Please be as specific as possible.

For your reference online copies of both documents are available:

• The Bible
• The Constitution of the United States
  The Bill of Right
  The Constitution: Amendments 11-27

[micatala]

It has been asserted here and elsewhere that the Bible was a source for many of the principles and ideas enshrined in the US Constitution. I have read both and frankly I don't see the connection.

Question for debate: Was the Bible a source of inspiration, ideas or principles that guided the writers of the US Constitution? Please be as specific as possible.

For your reference online copies of both documents are available:

• The Bible
• The Constitution of the United States
  The Bill of Right
  The Constitution: Amendments 11-27

While I will say more later, and I expect this to be a good thread, for now I will simply observe that the first amendment of the constitution is counter to the 10 commandments, specifically the first. There was no 'free exercise of religion' for the Hebrews. They were required to worship Yahweh, and to practice this worship in very specific ways.

[Mark_W]

Well, the Bible can certainly be interpreted in so many ways that I'd imagine a case could be made for its connection to the Constitution. I think both contain good and bad in them, but I'm certain that the Constitution is less ambiguous and less open to interpretation (not that this is a necessarily a good thing).
I would say the command "Thou Shalt Not Kill" would be counter (at least in spirit) to the Constitution's references for preparing for wars, etc.

[McCulloch]

Well, the Bible can certainly be interpreted in so many ways that I'd imagine a case could be made for its connection to the Constitution.

And I wait with interest to see such a case.

I think both contain good and bad in them, but I'm certain that the Constitution is less ambiguous and less open to interpretation (not that this is a necessarily a good thing).

And only one of the two is open to revision and amendments.

I would say the command "Thou Shalt Not Kill" would be counter (at least in spirit) to the Constitution's references for preparing for wars, etc.

That commandment (the fifth if you follow Augustine's numbering as Roman Catholics and Lutherans do, the sixth if you follow Jewish tradition or Origen as most Orthodox and other Protestants do) has to be interpreted in context. Since the very same book that prohibits murder also instructs the children of Israel to wage war, I doubt that you can make a case the the two are incompatible.

[Mark_W]

like I said, since the Bible contains seemingly contradictory ideas and statements, you can "prove" nearly anything you want with it.
Like the phrase goes "The devil can quote scripture to serve his purpose".
The constitiution is much more clearly defined, and I would say it is a more narrow doctrine for better or worse.
The Bible may have extremely virtuous statements like "love your enemies, return good for evil, etc" that the constitution does not have. But contrariwise, the constitution does not paint the picture of an angry God and mainly refers to "protective" types of violence that are "necessary evils" for self defense purposes, as opposed to some Old Testament parts that as I'm guessing could be interpreted as justifying all types of violence.
Both documents contain good and bad things, but differ in their flexibility and range.

[r~]

Was the Bible a source of inspiration, ideas or principles that guided the writers of the US Constitution?

The new covenant was the source of inspiration that guided the writers of the Declaration of Independence and some of the writers of the Constitution. Unfortunately they were forced to compromise with the devil in order to preserve the Union when it came time to enact the Constitution.

Consider the following:

Love your neighbor as yourself.
All men are created equal.

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, render unto God that which is God's.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
All men are endowed with the inalienable Right of Liberty.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the People.

ItS
Liberty and Justice for All
r~

[Confused]

It seems to me that the correlation between US Laws and Religious Laws are made based more on the Criminal law system rather than the constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_law

The first signs of the modern distinction between crimes and civil matters emerged during the Norman Invasion of England.[2] The special notion of criminal penalty, at least concerning Europe, arose in Spanish Late Scolasticism (see Alfonso de Castro, when the theological notion of God's penalty (poena aeterna) that was inflicted solely for a guilty mind, became transfused into canon law first and, finally, to secular criminal law.[3] The development of the state dispensing justice in a court clearly emerged in the eighteenth century when European countries began maintaining police services. From this point, criminal law had formal the mechanisms for enforcement, which allowed for its development as a discernable entity.

Often, our laws based on what we saw as criminal in the early years of the US, do seem to follow the trend of the "10 commandments" in general. The trend continues even today, but we allow for secular exceptions to canonical laws. Criminal laws remain on the books in some states that still reflect the religious undertones that guided them. Some states still prohibit sodomy, for example.

However, the case can be made that these are merely moral laws. What is right and what is wrong. The close correlation between biblical laws and early to current criminal laws however, cannot be ignored.

[McCulloch]

Was the Bible a source of inspiration, ideas or principles that guided the writers of the US Constitution?

The new covenant was the source of inspiration that guided the writers of the Declaration of Independence and some of the writers of the Constitution.

Please cite examples to support this claim. I have seen nothing in the Declaration or the Constitution that seems to be taken from the NT.

Unfortunately they were forced to compromise with the devil in order to preserve the Union when it came time to enact the Constitution.

Consider the following:

Love your neighbor as yourself.

That's in the NT, where is it in the Declaration or the Constitution?

All men are created equal.

That's in the Constitution, where is it in the NT?

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, render unto God that which is God's.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Ok, I'll give you that one.

All men are endowed with the inalienable Right of Liberty.

In the NT?

[r~]

Love your neighbor as yourself.

That's in the NT, where is it in the Declaration or the Constitution?

All men are created equal.

That's in the Constitution, where is it in the NT?

All men are endowed with the inalienable Right of Liberty.

In the NT?

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, render unto God that which is God's.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Ok, I'll give you that one.

Treat others as you would have them treat you. To love your neighbors as your self, they must be treated as your equal. If you render the persecution of sin to God, and the prosecution of crime (denial of liberty) to government, then you will not deny the right of peaceful and well-regulated pursuit of happiness (liberty) to your neighbors. You will even help secure their liberty as you would have them help secure your own. Otherwise, you will forfeit your own right of liberty (judged and condemned in the same measure).

This is the essence of both the new covenant ItS (not the "Christian In Name Only" definition of "New Covenant"] and the Declaration of Independence. This is the guarantee of the Ninth Amendment.

Governments are instituted among men to secure the right of liberty. The U.S. Constitution was and is instituted to secure these rights. The U.S. Constitution derives its just powers to secure these rights.

If We only had a government of statesmen and justices instead of politicians and judges, We might better secure liberty and justice for all. It is the affliction of America and the World that We do not.

ItS
Liberty
r~

[Chancellor]

It has been asserted here and elsewhere that the Bible was a source for many of the principles and ideas enshrined in the US Constitution. I have read both and frankly I don't see the connection.

That's because there is no connection.

Question for debate: Was the Bible a source of inspiration, ideas or principles that guided the writers of the US Constitution? Please be as specific as possible.

For your reference online copies of both documents are available:

• The Bible
• The Constitution of the United States
  The Bill of Right
  The Constitution: Amendments 11-27

There is nothing even remotely Christian about the Constitution or the republic founded upon it. For that matter, there is no such thing as a "Christian" form of government - except for a theocracy where Jesus Christ personally reigns on Earth but that is a yet future event.