Why the Holy Spirit?

[OnceConvinced]

Recent debate about God being a spirit being got me thinking about the trinity. The father, the son and the Holy Spirit. Many Christians believe all three are parts of one entity - God.

I for one always went along with the concept of the Trinity as a Christian and never thought about this until now. If God is a spirit then why does he have another part of himself called the Holy Spirit? In fact, why does he need that part at all?

My questions:
If God the father, is a spirit, why would he have a seperate part of himself called the Holy Spirit? Is it possible that God is not a spirit being at all, but only part of him is spiritual? (or maybe God the father is not Holy at all? )

Please do feel free to quote scripture if you wish.

[twobitsmedia]

I don't see them as one entity, but all related as one.
God created the world and will end it. He knows when the time will come, as Jesus said that even He did not know, only "the Father." All power and authority ultmately belong to Him. Jesus came in the flesh and died as an ultimate redemptive act for mankind. His fleshly mission is complete until He returns again for one last time. The Holy Spirit is the power of Jesus which touches man. When someone says they sense "Jesus" or the "spirit", it is the holy Spirit, that works within individuals hearts "for the tranforming and renewing of the mind.". The spirit of God did occasionally touch peoples lives on earth in OT history. But in the days since Jesus' ascension, the spirit was poured out over all the earth.

Pretty much what I believed as a Christian.

I saw the Holy Spirit as sort of like a wind that came from God. Is that the way you see it?

Thats the way it was described when it first came, I believe in Acts after the ascension "Like a mighty wind." I have never experienced it in that sense though. I believe it is present all the time, as it is an irrevocable gift, but I don't feel it all the time, in fact, probably more not than do. People will describe it in different ways so I suspect there is some definite "personableness" about the experience.

[OnceConvinced]

Thats the way it was described when it first came, I believe in Acts after the ascension "Like a mighty wind." I have never experienced it in that sense though. I believe it is present all the time, as it is an irrevocable gift, but I don't feel it all the time, in fact, probably more not than do. People will describe it in different ways so I suspect there is some definite "personableness" about the experience.

Well to be honest, I never experienced it as a wind either, when I thought it came upon me. More like a spiritual high. But it seemed like a wind is the best way to describe it because it's not so much a physical thing, but the effects of it are obvious. (speaking from the POV of a Christian of course) A wind is also a good analogy, because it comes from something, but is actually not a physical part of something. eg. God breathes = the wind of the spirit goes out and does it's thing. Sort of like that. (That doesn't mean I believe God breathes the HS, it's just an analogy).

But going back to my original musings. If they are seperate entities and one is called a Holy Spirit, then what is the other? If they are both Holy Spirits then it seems to me that the writers of the bible made an error when they named the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit. They should have given it another name to better differentiate between it and God.

[twobitsmedia]

Thats the way it was described when it first came, I believe in Acts after the ascension "Like a mighty wind." I have never experienced it in that sense though. I believe it is present all the time, as it is an irrevocable gift, but I don't feel it all the time, in fact, probably more not than do. People will describe it in different ways so I suspect there is some definite "personableness" about the experience.

Well to be honest, I never experienced it as a wind either, when I thought it came upon me. More like a spiritual high. But it seemed like a wind is the best way to describe it because it's not so much a physical thing, but the effects of it are obvious. (speaking from the POV of a Christian of course) A wind is also a good analogy, because it comes from something, but is actually not a physical part of something. eg. God breathes = the wind of the spirit goes out and does it's thing. Sort of like that. (That doesn't mean I believe God breathes the HS, it's just an analogy).

But going back to my original musings. If they are seperate entities and one is called a Holy Spirit, then what is the other? If they are both Holy Spirits then it seems to me that the writers of the bible made an error when they named the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit. They should have given it another name to better differentiate between it and God.

It's probably translation. I believe the original language in the OT and NT do use different words, but some words seem problematic when trying to translate to English. The Bible, as translated, has some human error in translation becasue the style a lot of the Bible was written was somewhat poetic (to them), but I think over all the context is right. I went to a Bible college years ago for exegetical teachings and I have always thought it would be interesting to read the original text, as I got a taste of it, But, in all honesty, it is "Greek to me."

[Goat]

Recent debate about God being a spirit being got me thinking about the trinity. The father, the son and the Holy Spirit. Many Christians believe all three are parts of one entity - God.

As I understand the dogma of Trinity, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not parts of one God. They are each completely God. There is one God who is three persons. It makes no sense, it is a mystery.

Why the Holy Spirit?

1. God is spirit John 4:24
2. God is holy
3. God is one
4. Therefore, God is the[c] Holy Spirit[a]

I guess my summation of why it makes no sense is because it makes no sense. They are "one" in the sense they are united, but have different iDs. Apparently the fundamentalist position is different, and to me, makes no sense.

Do you see them as just the one entity, but doing different jobs?

I don't see them as one entity, but all related as one.
God created the world and will end it. He knows when the time will come, as Jesus said that even He did not know, only "the Father." All power and authority ultmately belong to Him. Jesus came in the flesh and died as an ultimate redemptive act for mankind. His fleshly mission is complete until He returns again for one last time. The Holy Spirit is the power of Jesus which touches man. When someone says they sense "Jesus" or the "spirit", it is the holy Spirit, that works within individuals hearts "for the tranforming and renewing of the mind.". The spirit of God did occasionally touch peoples lives on earth in OT history. But in the days since Jesus' ascension, the spirit was poured out over all the earth.

To me, that position seems very polytheistic . It makes no sense to me what so ever , and I believe to be self-contradictory.

[McCulloch]

Do you see them as just the one entity, but doing different jobs?

I don't think that any orthodox definition of Trinity uses the word entity. There is one substance and three persons. I don't know what that means either.

I don't see them as one entity, but all related as one.

Christian monotheism does not traditionally teach that God is a committee.

To me, that position seems very polytheistic.

You would not be the only one.

It makes no sense to me what so ever, and I believe to be self-contradictory.

They prefer to use the word mystery. But it means the same thing.

[twobitsmedia]

Recent debate about God being a spirit being got me thinking about the trinity. The father, the son and the Holy Spirit. Many Christians believe all three are parts of one entity - God.

As I understand the dogma of Trinity, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not parts of one God. They are each completely God. There is one God who is three persons. It makes no sense, it is a mystery.

Why the Holy Spirit?

1. God is spirit John 4:24
2. God is holy
3. God is one
4. Therefore, God is the[c] Holy Spirit[a]

I guess my summation of why it makes no sense is because it makes no sense. They are "one" in the sense they are united, but have different iDs. Apparently the fundamentalist position is different, and to me, makes no sense.

Do you see them as just the one entity, but doing different jobs?

I don't see them as one entity, but all related as one.
God created the world and will end it. He knows when the time will come, as Jesus said that even He did not know, only "the Father." All power and authority ultmately belong to Him. Jesus came in the flesh and died as an ultimate redemptive act for mankind. His fleshly mission is complete until He returns again for one last time. The Holy Spirit is the power of Jesus which touches man. When someone says they sense "Jesus" or the "spirit", it is the holy Spirit, that works within individuals hearts "for the tranforming and renewing of the mind.". The spirit of God did occasionally touch peoples lives on earth in OT history. But in the days since Jesus' ascension, the spirit was poured out over all the earth.

To me, that position seems very polytheistic . It makes no sense to me what so ever , and I believe to be self-contradictory.

It would be if God was not the one still in charge. If God gives leadership authority to anyone, it does not mean he has given up his ultimate authority.

[twobitsmedia]

Do you see them as just the one entity, but doing different jobs?

I don't think that any orthodox definition of Trinity uses the word entity. There is one substance and three persons. I don't know what that means either.

The word "trinity" isn't even in the Bible, so the "doctrine of the trinity" may be confusing. or a mystery (depending on who interprets the doctrine). But the relationship between God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are not.

Christian monotheism does not traditionally teach that God is a committee.

I very rarely base a conviction of "traditional" teachings.

They prefer to use the word mystery. But it means the same thing.

I don't know why you keep using the word "mystery" except that maybe someone said it was. It is not.

[Goat]

Do you see them as just the one entity, but doing different jobs?

I don't think that any orthodox definition of Trinity uses the word entity. There is one substance and three persons. I don't know what that means either.

The word "trinity" isn't even in the Bible, so the "doctrine of the trinity" may be confusing. or a mystery (depending on who interprets the doctrine). But the relationship between God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are not.

To me it is. However, my interpretation differs from yours.

God and the Holy spirit just different words for the exact same thing. Jesus, if he existed at all, was just a man who was misinterpreted and deified by his fellow man, just like Augustus was.

[McCulloch]

They prefer to use the word mystery. But it means the same thing.

I don't know why you keep using the word "mystery" except that maybe someone said it was. It is not.

Perhaps it is because Christians keep using the term mystery to describe Trinity.

• THE TRINITY AS A MYSTERY
• Trinity is a mystery as well as a doctrine, which is beyond our intuitive recognition and faculty. One God in Three persons, that is the mystery of the Holy Trinity.
• THE MYSTERY OF THE TRINITY & GOD'S IMAGE IN MAN
• Trinity -- mystery and reality
• 
• The Mystery of the Trinity by Carl D. Franklin
• We believe in one God. This God is trinitarian. That is to say, God includes three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. But if He is three persons, how can He be one God? This is the greatest mystery that the human mind can absorb. It does not perplex only us. We are not the only ones who cannot understand by rational means the great mystery of the Holy Trinity.
  [...]
  We ourselves cannot prove rationally the mystery of the Holy Trinity. It would not then be a mystery.

[OnceConvinced]

Thats the way it was described when it first came, I believe in Acts after the ascension "Like a mighty wind." I have never experienced it in that sense though. I believe it is present all the time, as it is an irrevocable gift, but I don't feel it all the time, in fact, probably more not than do. People will describe it in different ways so I suspect there is some definite "personableness" about the experience.

Well to be honest, I never experienced it as a wind either, when I thought it came upon me. More like a spiritual high. But it seemed like a wind is the best way to describe it because it's not so much a physical thing, but the effects of it are obvious. (speaking from the POV of a Christian of course) A wind is also a good analogy, because it comes from something, but is actually not a physical part of something. eg. God breathes = the wind of the spirit goes out and does it's thing. Sort of like that. (That doesn't mean I believe God breathes the HS, it's just an analogy).

But going back to my original musings. If they are seperate entities and one is called a Holy Spirit, then what is the other? If they are both Holy Spirits then it seems to me that the writers of the bible made an error when they named the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit. They should have given it another name to better differentiate between it and God.

It's probably translation. I believe the original language in the OT and NT do use different words, but some words seem problematic when trying to translate to English.

Good point. As someone who sees a lot of trouble with the English translations of the bible, I should have thought about that possibility,