I don't understand how liberal Christian theology works.

Lainey · Post by **Lainey** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:15 pm

I am confused about liberal Christian theology. It is my understanding that with Biblical literalists, Jesus was required as a saviour because of the Fall in the Garden of Eden. They even call him the "second Adam," since the first one didn't get it right. Somehow (and I don't want to get into how in this question) he was supposed to have absolved those who believe in him by dying on a cross as a substitute...er...sacrifice?

So for liberal Christians, what is he saving you from? And how? I don't understand how your theology works if you don't believe in the literal Bible. (Then again, I don't see how anyone can believe in a literal Bible). It seems to me that the whole belief system falls apart if the Bible is not literal. What do you base your beliefs on? Can anyone explain it to me?

spiritletter · Post by **spiritletter** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:42 pm

Salvation: I'm wondering what the actual word is in Aramaic?

I would say that "liberal" theology (I would call it a spirit of open exegesis) is:

the discussion of non literal strategies: allegory, exoteric vs esoteric meanings, poetry and midrash (associative, free form experience of poetic text as a means of finding meaning particular to the inquiry), how to read myth and folk tale, the scholarly pursuit of sources and analogues from other wisdom literatures, and an emphasis on actual spiritual practice rather than negative rhetoric and afterlife prediction.

"Salvation" could mean many things. I am sure it does not mean, literally, saved from Hell; it is more like salvation from our own ignorance and the destructive acts that are made possible by it.

Does this help?

Lainey · Post by **Lainey** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:00 pm

Yeah, sort of. It's early (for me on a Saturday!), and I'm not at my best. So where does Jesus fit into all of this? What was the purpose of his death on the cross?

MagusYanam · Post by **MagusYanam** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:08 pm

Lainey wrote:I am confused about liberal Christian theology. It is my understanding that with Biblical literalists, Jesus was required as a saviour because of the Fall in the Garden of Eden. They even call him the "second Adam," since the first one didn't get it right. Somehow (and I don't want to get into how in this question) he was supposed to have absolved those who believe in him by dying on a cross as a substitute...er...sacrifice?

So for liberal Christians, what is he saving you from? And how? I don't understand how your theology works if you don't believe in the literal Bible. (Then again, I don't see how anyone can believe in a literal Bible). It seems to me that the whole belief system falls apart if the Bible is not literal. What do you base your beliefs on? Can anyone explain it to me?

For anyone with even a limited knowledge of Hebrew, Genesis 1 and 2 read like myth - that is to say, a story not necessarily factual that is meant to explain some observed phenomenon. The very words 'adham and hawwah mean Man and Life respectively - they are no more proper names than Lif and Lifthrasir (Life and Liveliness) of Norse mythology. They refer to the common condition of man, that all of us are by some means separated from God. You don't need to believe that Genesis 1 and 2 describe literal fact to observe human evil, or to realise that it exists and is in need of correction. In fact, liberal theologian Reinhold Niebuhr referred to the creation story as 'true myth': while it might not be supported by fact, the story can still tell us something of value, and in that sense, while it may not be 'factual', it is still true.

So as to whether liberal theology falls apart if there is no literal Adam and Eve, I don't think a literal Adam and Eve are necessary. The story is descriptive of a problem - that human beings exist in a state of moral confusion and separation, from God and from each other, what came to be described as the state of the Fall. This manifests in self-centredness, in shortsightedness, in thoughtless behaviour, and these are factual enough. How Jesus comes into play is thus - here is our chance at coming to understand in some small way a personal God who not only can, but is willing to rectify our mistakes and set to rights what we cannot set to rights for ourselves, by means of self-sacrificial love.

spiritletter · Post by **spiritletter** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:10 pm

Lainey wrote:Yeah, sort of. It's early (for me on a Saturday!), and I'm not at my best. So where does Jesus fit into all of this? What was the purpose of his death on the cross?

I don't know why there has to be a purpose to his death on the cross other than he was killed because he got in a political standoff with certain Jewish sects, and the Romans killed him to keep the peace. I don't know why people are so fixated on that terrible but typical death (crucifixion was a daily form of Roman execution) and not the wisdom teachings of the Gospels, which are extraordinary. He was a great teacher and offered much wisdom about how to live.

Your thinking may have been formed by very conservative interpretations of the story of Christ.