Atheism cannot be wrong

[Ray the atheist]

Preamble:

What can I possibly mean by that?
Notice that the title is about Atheism, and not Atheists..
I will be making that quite plain below

But first….

Definitions:

Atheism:

A lack of belief in gods.
Atheism is an expression of a disbelief.
When I say that I'm an atheist, I am expressing my disbelief, I'm not making a claim that the god isn't real.
It might be real, I might be mistaken, your god might be real, but as an atheist, I just don't believe it.

Theism:

A belief in at least one god.
Theism is an expression of belief. When I say that I'm a theist, I'm expressing my belief that at least one god exists. My god might not be real. I might be mistaken. But as a theist, I believe that my god is real.

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Atheism isn't a moral claim:

Atheism cannot be morally wrong, as in “evil,” and it cannot be morally right, as in “good.”

Atheism isn't a truth claim:

Atheism cannot be factually wrong, as in “false,” and it cannot be factually right, as in “true.”

It cannot be factually or morally wrong to express a belief, or a disbelief.

So, atheism cannot be logically wrong, and it cannot be morally wrong.
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I am making the STRONG distinction here between "atheism" and "atheist".

Atheists can and do have moral and factual judgments of claims.. For example, I am very willing to discuss my conclusions about Christianity and all theism in general.

Atheists and Atheism are not identical.
The first means people who do not believe in gods, and the second is the position of a non-belief in gods.

I will remind you of that at the end of my preamble.
The distinction is crucial.

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Here is an example of a short conversation to explain what that means:

Christian : Hi.
Atheist: I don't believe in your god.
Christian: Is atheism making the truth claim that "there are no gods"?
Atheist: No.
Christian: Is atheism making the claim that Atheism is correct?
Atheist: No.
Christian: Is atheism making a truth claim?
Atheist: No. Atheism itself makes no truth claim. “I don't believe in your god” describes my mental state, not a claim about whether your god exists.

As you can see, the only claim that an atheist needs to make is that "I don't believe in your god".

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As to morality, it's the same deal:

Christian: Hi.
Atheist: I don't follow your morality.
Christian: Are you claiming that my morality is evil?
Atheist: Atheism itself makes no moral claims. I have my own, personal opinions, though.
Christian: Does atheism claim the moral high ground?
Atheist: No.
Christian: When it comes to morality, what ARE you claiming?
Atheist: Atheism does not make a moral claim. I'm simply saying that I don't follow your morality, and I can explain why.
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The atheist in these conversations isn't making a truth claim about the existence of your God, and it's not making a moral claim about your God, your religion, or yourself.

“I don't believe X” does not logically entail “I believe not-X.”

Example: “I don't believe extraterrestrial life exists” does not mean “I believe extraterrestrial life does not exist.”

Christians should be aware of what most modern atheists are saying because it would save us all a lot of time.

Pew provides useful evidence. In 2019, 97% of self-described atheists defined atheist as someone who does not believe in God, rather than explicitly claiming God does not exist.

This 97% can be noticed across most social media, including reddit atheists. Very few atheists insist that they know there is no God. .. It would be nice if reddit allowed for polls, we could make a quick test of what atheists actually claim.

So, if you can accept that we aren't making any truth claim or moral claim, then, atheism can't be factually or morally wrong.

Remember, that I'm not talking about my personal position on Christianity as the truth, nor am I talking about my personal position on Christianity as morally righteous.

Those would be my personal opinions, not the meaning of atheism.


The Argument:

P1: Non-belief in X does not entail a factual or moral claim about X.
P2: Atheism, understood as non-belief, is non-belief in gods.

C: Therefore, atheism cannot be factually or morally wrong.

[Vilferatus]

I have been civilly engaging with a variety of theists in this forum since 2019

Read your comment back to you. It goes both ways.

Vilferatus
Apprentice
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2026 9:10 pm

You are both civil until you dont have a civilized way to defend your arguments. The date of my register doesnt prove wrong or right your claims.

Did you think that was a gotcha? or what does your emote mean?

[Bradskii]

It's not intended to negative toward your position, but it is intended to point out that your position is negative. You are saying that you've searched for evidence and found none. You've searched for convincing proofs and found none. You've wanted and wished for (dare I say prayed for) meaningful experiences and had none. So while you are free to construe my words as cleverly masked, they are accurate in terms of what you've found in your search. You've found nothing, so your beliefs are based upon what you've found.

Yes. Your position is positive: I bbelieve in God. Mine is negative: I do not believe in God. And my position, as you rightly say, is based on what I have found. Which is, in my opinion, insufficient evidence. Insufficient evidence is not nothing. In some cases it's quite substantial. A whole religion's worth.

If a jury finds a person not guilty because the evidence produced by the prosecutor was insufficient for them to determine guilt, then their decision is based on the evidence. It makes no sense to say that their belief is based on nothing.

Anyway, I think we've made all the points that we'd like to make, even if we don't agree on how it can be worded. I don't find it to be a big deal, so thanks for your input.

[Bradskii]

Im not talking about any specific God in this thread, im talking about the philosophical concept of God. Ive said this many times in this thread. You are willingly ignoring that distinction. How is that supposed to be my fault?

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense to me at all. If you use capital 'G' God then you're talking about the Abrahmic God. Whether you are discussing the philosophical concept of Him (note the capital 'H') or discussing his attributes or His plans for humanity makes no difference.