It's my belief as well as the belief of many others that Jesus only created this 'earth' and this earth only. It's possible that he didn't even create this entire solar system, but God the Father did. God allowed Jesus to 'design' this planet and this planet only. I'm convinced that when we look up and see the trillions of 'suns' many of them have or likely have had inhabited 'earths' - and likely with humans on them. Possibly some of them have humans larger than us. Possible and in my view, likely the same.
No doubt God is still in the creation business. When this 'earth' reaches its end, God will create more 'earths' and my guess is they likely all FELL and needed a Savior. That Savior would likely be another fully human being like our Jesus was.
In my view it's illogical to believe we are the only human creation among trillions of stars AND trillions of galaxies.
https://www.thoughtco.com/galaxy-types- ... on-3072058
What did Jesus create?
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BruceLeiter
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Re: What did Jesus create?
Post #81[Replying to NeutralZone in post #76]
The translators of the New World translation slanted the texts away from the Greek and Hebrew meanings to support their attempts to protect their prior assumptions in reasoning away the doctrines of the Trinity and the full humanity and full deity of Jesus, @NeutralZone. Those beliefs are based squarely on the Bible, especially the Gospel of John, which I could quote in full, but this post would get a little long.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
The translators of the New World translation slanted the texts away from the Greek and Hebrew meanings to support their attempts to protect their prior assumptions in reasoning away the doctrines of the Trinity and the full humanity and full deity of Jesus, @NeutralZone. Those beliefs are based squarely on the Bible, especially the Gospel of John, which I could quote in full, but this post would get a little long.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Re: What did Jesus create?
Post #82[Replying to BruceLeiter in post #81]
The history of the Trinity doctrine is clear.
1. Jesus became God in AD325 at the council of Nicaea.
2. The holy spirit became God in AD381 at the council of Constantinople.
3. Several arguments continued among the Bishops -over 100 of them. They could not resolve the multiple contradictions the Trinity or 'Nature of God' presented.
Examples are - Jesus saying the Father is Greater - that he doesn't know the day or hour of his return, - or that he can do nothing on his own. They overcame those contradictions in AD 451 under Pope Leo the Great. That's when Jesus acquired TWO NATURES which is the ultimate Trinitarian excuse for every contradiction.
Jesus 'acquired' two natures in AD451 at the council of Chalcedon. That was the only way the Bishops of Rome were able to overcome all the contradictions where Jesus shows the Father to be greater in knowledge and power. He was 'anointed' and had a full measure of the holy spirit - which is the POWER of God. He was enabled and empowered by God's Spirit. He was not God in the flesh.
Trinity teaches Jesus is co-equal to the God the Father in knowledge, power, and authority. However, Jesus said 'the Father is greater'. He said he doesn't know the day and hour of his return. He said he can do NOTHING on his own. Over and over again, Jesus acknowledges his subordination to the Father. How do Trinitarians overcome these clear contradictions of co-equality? The TWO NATURES - Trinity's most outstanding cop-out. That's precisely how over a hundred Bishops of Rome over the course of about 2-3 hundred years resolved these arguments. There was no overcoming the following contradictions any other way other than claiming Jesus has two natures.
His subordination to God -
The Father being greater -
Not knowing the day or hour of his return -
Not being able to do anything on his own -
The history of the Trinity doctrine is clear.
1. Jesus became God in AD325 at the council of Nicaea.
2. The holy spirit became God in AD381 at the council of Constantinople.
3. Several arguments continued among the Bishops -over 100 of them. They could not resolve the multiple contradictions the Trinity or 'Nature of God' presented.
Examples are - Jesus saying the Father is Greater - that he doesn't know the day or hour of his return, - or that he can do nothing on his own. They overcame those contradictions in AD 451 under Pope Leo the Great. That's when Jesus acquired TWO NATURES which is the ultimate Trinitarian excuse for every contradiction.
Jesus 'acquired' two natures in AD451 at the council of Chalcedon. That was the only way the Bishops of Rome were able to overcome all the contradictions where Jesus shows the Father to be greater in knowledge and power. He was 'anointed' and had a full measure of the holy spirit - which is the POWER of God. He was enabled and empowered by God's Spirit. He was not God in the flesh.
Trinity teaches Jesus is co-equal to the God the Father in knowledge, power, and authority. However, Jesus said 'the Father is greater'. He said he doesn't know the day and hour of his return. He said he can do NOTHING on his own. Over and over again, Jesus acknowledges his subordination to the Father. How do Trinitarians overcome these clear contradictions of co-equality? The TWO NATURES - Trinity's most outstanding cop-out. That's precisely how over a hundred Bishops of Rome over the course of about 2-3 hundred years resolved these arguments. There was no overcoming the following contradictions any other way other than claiming Jesus has two natures.
His subordination to God -
The Father being greater -
Not knowing the day or hour of his return -
Not being able to do anything on his own -
Re: What did Jesus create?
Post #83[Replying to BruceLeiter in post #81]
John 1 is simply saying that in the beginning was God's 'saying word' and the 'saying word' was toward the God and God was the 'saying word'. All that's saying is that in the original/beginning God's saying word was all there was all - and THEN God's 'saying word' became flesh.
John 1 is simply saying that in the beginning was God's 'saying word' and the 'saying word' was toward the God and God was the 'saying word'. All that's saying is that in the original/beginning God's saying word was all there was all - and THEN God's 'saying word' became flesh.
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OneJack
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Re: What did Jesus create?
Post #84Were you with John when God, as you claimed, said those things to John? If not, where do you come from with those narratives you posted above?snowbound wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2026 11:02 pm [Replying to BruceLeiter in post #81]
John 1 is simply saying that in the beginning was God's 'saying word' and the 'saying word' was toward the God and God was the 'saying word'. All that's saying is that in the original/beginning God's saying word was all there was all - and THEN God's 'saying word' became flesh.
Re: What did Jesus create?
Post #85[Replying to OneJack in post #84]
That comes from this interlinear.
https://scripture4all.org/OnlineInterli ... f/joh1.pdf
That comes from this interlinear.
https://scripture4all.org/OnlineInterli ... f/joh1.pdf
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OneJack
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Re: What did Jesus create?
Post #86So, you're just interpreting the writing in the bible under John's name in chapter 1, aren't you?snowbound wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 6:21 pm [Replying to OneJack in post #84]
That comes from this interlinear.
https://scripture4all.org/OnlineInterli ... f/joh1.pdf
Re: What did Jesus create?
Post #87[Replying to OneJack in post #86]
I'm simply reading it the way the passage is written in the Textus Receptus written in 1516. The TR is also one of the publications the KJV translators used.
The word firstborn also implies a beginning.
I'm simply reading it the way the passage is written in the Textus Receptus written in 1516. The TR is also one of the publications the KJV translators used.
The word firstborn also implies a beginning.
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BruceLeiter
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Re: What did Jesus create?
Post #88[Replying to snowbound in post #82]
This interpretation of the history of the church's development of the theology of the Trinity is interesting, @snowbound; but another and much better way to look at it is that the church discovered and clarified the Scripture's own assumptions that God is both one God and three Persons.
It's far from likely that the church arrived at the mysteries of the Trinity and Jesus' two natures on their own without God's leading. Who comes to believe in a mystery by reasoning about Scripture? No one. The church and all Christians must admit that our human reasoning is limited, while God's rational processes are far beyond ours.
The Bible is clear in presenting those mysteries but does not explain them further. No amount of human reasoning can solve them. Therefore, since the Bible presents them, I believe them.
The question of Jesus' submission or subjection to the Father can be explained with the Bible's own teaching that they both have equal divine status, while they also have distinctly different roles in the Trinity, while at the same time doing everything together. The same understanding can discover that Jesus somehow limited himself, because he took on full humanity, while remaining fully divine, which is, again, a mystery that the Bible reveals but does not fully explain.
This interpretation of the history of the church's development of the theology of the Trinity is interesting, @snowbound; but another and much better way to look at it is that the church discovered and clarified the Scripture's own assumptions that God is both one God and three Persons.
It's far from likely that the church arrived at the mysteries of the Trinity and Jesus' two natures on their own without God's leading. Who comes to believe in a mystery by reasoning about Scripture? No one. The church and all Christians must admit that our human reasoning is limited, while God's rational processes are far beyond ours.
The Bible is clear in presenting those mysteries but does not explain them further. No amount of human reasoning can solve them. Therefore, since the Bible presents them, I believe them.
The question of Jesus' submission or subjection to the Father can be explained with the Bible's own teaching that they both have equal divine status, while they also have distinctly different roles in the Trinity, while at the same time doing everything together. The same understanding can discover that Jesus somehow limited himself, because he took on full humanity, while remaining fully divine, which is, again, a mystery that the Bible reveals but does not fully explain.
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BruceLeiter
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Re: What did Jesus create?
Post #89[Replying to snowbound in post #4]
@snowbound, please give the book, chapter, and verse when you quote the Bible. I would like to look up the contexts of your verses. "Firstborn" in all these verses about Jesus refers to his physical birth to Mary and to his bodily resurrection. The context of the Colossians one passage also refers to his deity, especially in verse 19. He is both fully God and fully human:
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.
Col 1:19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
@snowbound, please give the book, chapter, and verse when you quote the Bible. I would like to look up the contexts of your verses. "Firstborn" in all these verses about Jesus refers to his physical birth to Mary and to his bodily resurrection. The context of the Colossians one passage also refers to his deity, especially in verse 19. He is both fully God and fully human:
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.
Col 1:19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
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BruceLeiter
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Re: What did Jesus create?
Post #90[Replying to snowbound in post #1]
It is my belief, according to the Bible, @snowbound, that the first Person of God (later known as the Father) creates and continues to create the universe and everyone in it through the second Person as the Agent (later to become the God-man Jesus) by the third Person (known as the Holy Spirit) as the direct Doer. He is the one Creator-God. That is my answer to your original question.
It is my belief, according to the Bible, @snowbound, that the first Person of God (later known as the Father) creates and continues to create the universe and everyone in it through the second Person as the Agent (later to become the God-man Jesus) by the third Person (known as the Holy Spirit) as the direct Doer. He is the one Creator-God. That is my answer to your original question.
