Did Jesus Really Pay The Penalty For Our Sins?

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7466
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 98 times
Contact:

Did Jesus Really Pay The Penalty For Our Sins?

Post #1

Post by myth-one.com »

Question: Did Jesus Pay The Penalty For Our Sins?

Christians today generally accept that nonbelievers will suffer eternally in the fires of hell for their sins. But if the wages of sin is eternity in hellfire, Jesus did not pay the penalty for our sins. He simply died! Where did we go wrong?

Both testaments of the Bible contain covenants or wills between man and God. The inheritance or reward under either covenant is eternal life. The path to eternal life under the Old Testament was obeying all of God's commandments. That is, you must never sin because the wages of sin is death. However, this meant that no man could inherit eternal life because all men sinned.

What if another person could serve the penalty for our sins? For this to occur that person could not already be under the same judgment. If you are already under a death sentence you cannot substitute your life for a friend who is also on death row. In addition, you must serve out his full sentence. Under the New Testament Jesus suffered our punishment of death so that we could inherit eternal life. The wages of sin is death, but He never sinned. Therefore, His life could be given for ours.

But if humans are born with immortal souls the punishment must be changed since the soul lives forever! The punishment for sinning can no longer be the second death as taught in the scriptures. Thus, it has been changed to eternal punishment in hellfire! But if that is the case Jesus Christ did not pay our penalty! Jesus should presently be burning in hell and should stay there for all eternity since this is the punishment mainstream Christianity assigns to mankind for sinning!

This concept that nonbelievers will burn alive in hellfire eternally and never die, trivializes the death of Jesus Christ! In comparison to what present day theology holds in store for one nonbeliever, Jesus' crucifixion on the cross is a mosquito bite! Being crucified daily for a thousand years is preferable to burning alive for eternity. The true punishment for your sin is the second death which is eternal. You never live again after suffering the second death. It is the death which is eternal not the act and torture of dying by fire!

Jesus did indeed serve our penalty and He was a valid sacrifice since He was innocent of any sin! We can now escape the second death and live forever thanks to His sacrifice. Jesus died a physical death as a human on the cross. Man's second and permanent death is also a physical death. Humans who fulfill the requirement of the New Testament covenant do not suffer the second death since their penalty for sinning has already been paid. That New Testament requirement for inheriting eternal life is believing in Jesus as your Savior:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
Those believing in the immortal soul must interpret perish in John 3:16 to mean something other than death since their soul will never perish! One common erroneous interpretation is that it means "spiritual death" or "eternal separation from God." But if the penalty for sinning is eternal separation from God, then once again Jesus did not serve our punishment! Jesus is not separated from God! He is one third of the Trinity of God!

There are some topics in the Bible which are difficult to understand. This is not one of them! Jesus paid the price for our sins. What are the wages of our sinning? Death! What did Jesus do? He died on the cross. In fact, Jesus Christ is the only human to qualify for eternal life under the Old Testament. That is, the wages of sin is death but He never sinned, so He did not have to die. He laid down His life willingly.

The plan of salvation as designed by God is so incredibly simple! The wages of sin is death and all have sinned and are facing the second death. God sends His Son to earth as a human and Jesus lives a sinless life so He does not have to die. Therefore, He can lay down His life for ours. He willingly dies in our stead for our sins. Humans who accept Jesus as their Savior gain eternal life since Jesus has already paid the price for their sinning. Those who do not accept Jesus as their Savior must pay the penalty for their sinning which is perishing in the second death. The wages of sin is death.

However, man believes he is immortal due to use of the word "soul" in the King James Bible and Satan's lie that, "Ye shall not surely die." Man's new plan of salvation becomes extremely complicated as he designs myths to create new punishments for sinning. The true punishment of death as defined by God is no longer viable because man's "soul" lives forever and cannot die!

But no matter what mythical punishments men create to protect the immortal soul myth, none of them pass one simple and obvious test. Jesus Christ had to pay the full penalty for our sinning in order to become our Savior. He had to serve our full punishment. What did He do? He died! He died! Read it once again, He died! The wages of sin is death, and He died in our place. He is not burning in hell for eternity, He is not eternally separated from God, He did not have to write, "I will not sin" one trillion times, or any other ridiculous punishment! He died. Those who choose not to believe in Jesus must pay their own wages for sinning. Therefore, they die! Can this be any simpler?

If you are a Christian, you will have (future tense) eternal life! However, Christians believing the false theology of the immortal soul will be asked some embarrassing questions upon meeting Jesus face to face! How could they believe that Jesus, who created everything, would create a system whereby one individual would suffer pain and horror for eternity in the fires of hell? What part of "God is love," did they not understand? Here is our Savior who died that we might have eternal life. Yet, shortly after He departs the earth, most are convinced that all mankind is born with eternal life! Here is our Savior who taught nonviolence, turn the other cheek, love your enemies, do good to them that hurt you. Yet, shortly after His departure, most are convinced that His plan is for untold masses of humanity to suffer indescribable pain for eternity! If this was in His plan, why did He not mention it in detail while He was a human on earth? Granted, most of us were taught this false theology from birth. Even so, at some point when we began to reason on our own we should have seen the obvious flaw. Begin now to prepare your answers to these questions which will surely be asked!

Taken by permission from http://www.have-no-fear.com

User avatar
Greatest I Am
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3043
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:04 am

Post #101

Post by Greatest I Am »

myth-one.com wrote:
Greatest I Am wrote:Meeting God is what showed me His Perfection.
What good is a God who is not.
What good is a God who screws up heaven before creating a screwed up earth with defective human beings.
What good is a God who breaks His own Law and kills men.
Keep your loosing God.

If that is the trust you place in a looser. good luck.
Yes, I think I understand what you're saying. There is your God of Perfection, and a God for all of us losers.

For racists, there is probable a God for whites, blacks, browns, yellows, etc.

Probably one for heterosexuals and bisexuals and homosexuals also.

But since God said there is but one God, are you now saying that in addition to being a liar and incompetent, God is also ignorant? Perhaps incompetent and ignorant can be combined. I'm loosing track of your godly name calling anyway.

How does that really work? Will there be separate areas in heaven for each group? I suddenly saw the light and understood, but now its getting fuzzy again. Perhaps God really meant that each of us is allowed only one God. You have yours, I have mine, racists have theirs... etc.

But wait, that might not work for a perfect bisexual racist physically handicapped giant. Would he be allowed five gods, or have to choose one? This is getting complicated.
============================================
I cannot let you go without once again pointing out that God did not screw up heaven or earth, create defective beings, and break His own laws!
You got carried away there bud. There is only one God for all.
All souls are created Perfect and are destined for Heaven. How you got a division of God from my words I'm not sure but I forgive.

As to your last, let me recap.
To literal readers, God was already plagued with Satan before creating earth. Screw up. He comes to earth, sics Satan against poor non supernatural Eve. Not a fair fight.
Instead of a reboot when He only needs to kill two people, He waits and breaks His own Law of not killing and does away with millions including children and babies who are guilty of associating with defective humans created by God.
Are you noticing some strange aspects of reading literally yet.

God is good.
He does not screw up the way the Bible shows if you read literally.
Literal readers will never find God.
No one who believes in talking snakes will ever read the Bible correctly.

Regards
DL

myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7466
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 98 times
Contact:

Post #102

Post by myth-one.com »

Greatest I Am -- The same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Confused!

User avatar
Greatest I Am
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3043
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:04 am

Post #103

Post by Greatest I Am »

myth-one.com wrote:Greatest I Am -- The same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Confused!
"I cannot let you go without once again pointing out that God did not screw up heaven or earth, create defective beings, and break His own laws!"

This I find confusing.

Fallen angels are not fallen and floods do not kill.

Regards
DL

myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7466
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 98 times
Contact:

Post #104

Post by myth-one.com »

Greatest I Am wrote:This I find confusing.

Fallen angels are not fallen and floods do not kill.
1) Fallen angels fall of their own accord.

2) Floods do kill.

3) It confuses you because the scriptures are sealed from your understanding.


Greatest I Am -- The same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Confused!

User avatar
Greatest I Am
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3043
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:04 am

Post #105

Post by Greatest I Am »

myth-one.com wrote:
Greatest I Am wrote:This I find confusing.

Fallen angels are not fallen and floods do not kill.
1) Fallen angels fall of their own accord.

2) Floods do kill.

3) It confuses you because the scriptures are sealed from your understanding.


Greatest I Am -- The same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Confused!
Why centre my out for the sealing of documents. Not fair.

Regards
DL

myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7466
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 98 times
Contact:

Post #106

Post by myth-one.com »

Greatest I Am wrote:This I find confusing.
Myth-one.com wrote:It confuses you because the scriptures are sealed from your understanding.
Greatest I Am wrote:Why centre my out for the sealing of documents. Not fair.
Your understanding of the scriptures is no more sealed than it is from say Billy Graham, the Pope, or any other human:
Isaiah 29:11-12 wrote:And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot for it is sealed: And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Even the twelve disiciples did not understand the scriptures until Jesus opened their understanding in one of His last acts on the earth:
Luke 24:45 wrote:Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures.
So if you are a human on the scale from learned to not learned (that is everyone), the scriptures are sealed from your understanding. Additionally, I thought you had already confirmed that you ignored scripture which did not reflect on your God as being "Perfection."

In any event, the verses will remain sealed until the time of the end:
Daniel 12:4 wrote:But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Isaiah 29:18 wrote:And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.
Since you were created with freedom of choice, you may choose to believe or ignore these verses. Either way, the scriptures are sealed from your understanding unless you know the hole in the security system. This is not a personal assault on you, as the scriptures are sealed from everyone.

User avatar
Greatest I Am
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3043
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:04 am

Post #107

Post by Greatest I Am »

myth-one.com wrote:
Greatest I Am wrote:This I find confusing.
Myth-one.com wrote:It confuses you because the scriptures are sealed from your understanding.
Greatest I Am wrote:Why centre my out for the sealing of documents. Not fair.
So you believe that God is only giving us some pieces to a puzzle and hiding the rest somewhere.
Seems like a lousy way to teach some one something. Is that like giving a child a spanking because he could not do a simple puzzle when you have hidden some pieces.
Your premise breaks down and belongs to talking snakes and fish that spit out men after three days.

God and His book are complete in and of themselves. There is a happy ending with nothing hidden. Only humans would want or need to hide anything.

If you believe in the flood then you see that God killed millions because they did not understand, and here you say they could not understand because of hidden pieces.
Rather ridiculous no?

Regards
DL

myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7466
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 98 times
Contact:

Post #108

Post by myth-one.com »

Greatest I Am wrote:Rather ridiculous no?
No, it was brilliant!

User avatar
Greatest I Am
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3043
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:04 am

Post #109

Post by Greatest I Am »

myth-one.com wrote:
Greatest I Am wrote:Rather ridiculous no?
No, it was brilliant!
How so.

Regards
DL

myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7466
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 98 times
Contact:

Post #110

Post by myth-one.com »

Why it was brilliant for God to seal man's understanding of the scriptures:

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth and placed a host of angels on the earth as caretakers. These were spiritual beings who understood all mysteries of the universe. Some of these spiritual caretakers, led by Satan, rebelled against God's authority. As a result the earth came to be without form, void, and dark.

At this point God intervened and went to Plan B. He recreated the earth and made mortal mankind a little lower than the angels to be trained as replacement caretakers for those who rebelled. Now, if the original angels who understood the mysteries of the universe rebelled, why give the new caretakers this knowledge initially. Let them learn it the hard way through on the job training, the old school of hard knocks. That way they will appreciate the gift of eternal life more when it is earned. These lower beings (mankind) must respect and believe in the Son of God as a prerequisite to becoming a spiritual being which lives forever and understands all mysteries.

Man is in training to learn that the best way to rule the earth is under the rules of God. Upon Jesus' return, those who believed on Him will be born a second time as spiritual beings. They will then become keepers of the earth under Jesus' rule. Those of mankind who are not born again as spirits will be cast into the lake of fire and their resurrected physical bodies will be killed a second time. This second death is permanent. There is no way to return from the second death, it is eternal. That is the end of them. There is no Plan C.

Is the process of teaching mankind through the school of hard knocks working? One of the world's wisest men after a lifetime of seeking treasure, women, and whatever appeared to bring him pleasure; reached this final conclusion of the whole matter of life:
Ecclesiates 12:13 wrote:Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Is this the lesson we are here to learn in our short lifetime, that we should fear God and keep His commandments? Yes! We learn this lesson by trying our way and failing. The answers about the best way to live are sealed in the scriptures. We learn them through trial and error and hard knocks if at all. The Bible is sealed until the end times. The harder you have to work for something the more you appreciate it. We have to be taught (harshly if necessary) that our way is not the best way:
Proverbs 14:12 wrote:There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
So yes, it was brilliant!

Post Reply